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Re: [NTB] Notetab retains OLD tabs

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  • Alex Plantema
    ... If user settings were stored in the Program Files folders, a multi user system would not be possible. Microsoft s solution is only meant for old programs
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 19, 2012
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      Op zondag 19 februari 2012 17:04 schreef John Shotsky:

      > If all this sounds confusing, it is. Microsoft pulled one of the
      > dumbest stunts of all time when it protected the Program Files
      > folders. It should have left that alone, and created NEW folders that
      > were protected, but then it would have had to re-release all of its
      > products to use the new folders. So instead, it broke almost all
      > traditional software, gave us UAC, Shadow Copy and who knows what
      > else in order to achieve its goals.

      If user settings were stored in the Program Files folders, a multi user system would not be possible.
      Microsoft's solution is only meant for old programs (pre-Windows 95) that store their settings there,
      though it doesn't make it easy to understand, because some programs see the version in Program Files,
      whereas other programs see the version in the shadow copy folders.
      New programs put their setting in Application Data (Windows XP) or Appdata etc. (Vista, 7).

      Alex.
    • John Shotsky
      I wasn t referring to just user settings, I was referring to ANY files that a program tries to modify in its install folders when installed into C: Program
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 19, 2012
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        I wasn't referring to just user settings, I was referring to ANY files that a program tries to modify in its install
        folders when installed into C:\Program Files in Vista/Win7.

        I have no problem with there being a user section for multiple users, but most of us only have one user, and that one
        user pays the price of having the ability to have more users on the computer. The defaults should have been for
        single-user comfort, rather than single-user inconvenience.

        Regards,
        John
        RecipeTools Web Site: http://recipetools.gotdns.com/


        -----Original Message-----
        From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Plantema
        Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 08:37
        To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [NTB] Notetab retains OLD tabs

        Op zondag 19 februari 2012 17:04 schreef John Shotsky:

        > If all this sounds confusing, it is. Microsoft pulled one of the
        > dumbest stunts of all time when it protected the Program Files
        > folders. It should have left that alone, and created NEW folders that
        > were protected, but then it would have had to re-release all of its
        > products to use the new folders. So instead, it broke almost all
        > traditional software, gave us UAC, Shadow Copy and who knows what
        > else in order to achieve its goals.

        If user settings were stored in the Program Files folders, a multi user system would not be possible.
        Microsoft's solution is only meant for old programs (pre-Windows 95) that store their settings there,
        though it doesn't make it easy to understand, because some programs see the version in Program Files,
        whereas other programs see the version in the shadow copy folders.
        New programs put their setting in Application Data (Windows XP) or Appdata etc. (Vista, 7).

        Alex.



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      • Marcelo Bastos
        ... No, actually, they were right. Do you want to know for HOW LONG the Program Files has required administrative rights to write in? Since *1993.* Since the
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 19, 2012
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          Interviewed by CNN on 19/02/2012 14:04, John Shotsky told the world:

          > If all this sounds confusing, it is. Microsoft pulled one of the dumbest stunts of all time when it protected the
          > Program Files folders. It should have left that alone, and created NEW folders that were protected, but then it would
          > have had to re-release all of its products to use the new folders. So instead, it broke almost all traditional software,
          > gave us UAC, Shadow Copy and who knows what else in order to achieve its goals.

          No, actually, they were right. Do you want to know for HOW LONG the
          Program Files has required administrative rights to write in?

          Since *1993.* Since the very first version of Windows NT. People in
          corporate environments (where permissions are taken seriously) have
          worked with restricted Program Files since... well, since NT 4, in 1996
          (pretty much nobody used NT 3.x).

          Yeah, that's how long programmers have been told not to save files in
          the Program Files tree. (Although Microsoft programmers themselves were
          guilt of violating this; I remember having to temporarily elevate users'
          rights on first run of Office 2000, because it didn't fully comply with
          those directives...).

          And then, by Windows XP (when the NT family actually hit the home
          market), this happened if you used a "restricted" account instead of an
          Administrator account. That's back in 2001, by the way.

          Only... people kept using Administrator accounts for day-to-day tasks.
          It may be convenient, but security-wise, it's a REALLY DUMB idea. That's
          why in Linux/Unix/OSX you have to explicitly invoke root privileges
          (like by using sudo) for some tasks.

          So, Microsoft came with UAC. Which basically removes from Windows the
          stupid "all admin, all the time" behavior.

          Now we see people whining about "Oh, I can't write to the Program Files
          folder without invoking admin privileges." "Oh, viruses have a hard time
          installing themselves." "Oh, I can't delete my System32 folder." Tough
          luck. You shouldn't be doing that anyway. It's bad practice. There have
          been documented ways to keep application profiles in userland for years
          and years. And if you wanted to sell your applications to corporate
          users, you would already be doing that.

          So no, UAC did not break "almost all traditional software." Only the
          ones which were still written assuming Win9x practices (that is, for an
          OS family which had been out of the market for *five years* when Vista
          was launched).

          If you ask me, Microsoft has coddled bad programming habits and bad user
          habits for too long. It was high time for them to clamp down.

          --
          MCBastos

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