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RE: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?

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  • Jeff Seager
    Well, vi is a great program for what it is, but it is no better than NoteTab, which has some remarkably cool customization options. I don t see the value of
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 16, 2010
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      Well, vi is a great program for what it is, but it is no better than NoteTab, which has some remarkably cool customization options. I don't see the value of learning something new when what you're using does the job perfectly well and is customized for your purposes. So ... back to the problem ...

      The server upgrade is not a trivial point, Debbie, as there can be all kinds of tweaks needed after a server upgrade. It's conceivable that one such tweak wasn't made until a few weeks ago, though the upgrade was earlier. Does the network administrator understand specifically what NoteTab is doing? Not the details, but the concept of monitoring the open file for changes made by another user? There is a Linux shell command called "touch," for example, that could be included in batch command operations on the network; "touch" simply changes the timestamp of the file, and that would cause the behavior you're seeing. This is just one example among all kinds of similar possibilities. The key here is that this is not strictly an issue with NoteTab, but seems to affect NoteTab alone because this program has the built-in ability to monitor external changes. Most software does not have that functionality built in.

      I don't mean to pry, but is it common practice for multiple people to have access to these files at the same time? Many places use a "checkout" procedure of some kind to alert other users that a file is already open for editing. This prevents people overwriting each other's work. Implementing a procedure or policy like this on the network might solve your immediate problem AND head off many future problems, too -- even for people who aren't using NoteTab.

      Meanwhile, here's something else to try that involves only a change in your personal workflow. Open a file for editing (in NoteTab, of course) and immediately save a copy to your local drive. Edit at will, saving intermittently as you go. When finished, save a copy back to the networked drive and overwrite the original. I'm thinking there is NO WAY you'll get those messages under these circumstances. If I'm right, this is entirely a network issue and not an erroneous NoteTab message.

      Jeff


      To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
      From: debbie_packer@...
      Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:56:28 +0000
      Subject: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?
































      Yeah, I don't really want to complain either. I've found NoteTab to be a great product and the people to be nice when I've contacted them before (only once). I, too, am a heavy user of the product and have never had an issue until now. It really has me perplexed. And I thought I would ask here to see if someone else had experienced it before asking them. I did find one other instance of someone having the problem on another forum, but there was no resolution.



      To answer some of the questions. I'm not using a USB drive (it's a mapped network drive), no hibernation or anything odd.



      I did try accepting the Reload the very first time. It gave me the old version from before I had just saved. Now I just tell it not to reload, but it's terribly annoying when you're making changes and switching back and forth. I can change a character, save the file, click to the browser, immediately click back to my NoteTab window and get the message.



      The only thing I can think of that has changed recently (after thinking about it some more) is that our administrator upgraded our Linux web server about six weeks ago. But my problem didn't start until a couple weeks ago.



      I will try a few of the things suggested and see what I come up with. I think it must be something simple that exists between my PC and the server instead of a software issue, but it's making me crazy.



      It was suggested that I just switch to vi, but I love my NoteTab editor. It's hard for the Linux vi users to understand.



      If anyone thinks of anything else to try, I would appreciate it. I'll post if I find a solution.



      Thanks,

      Debbie


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    • debbie_packer
      Hi Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I checked with our administrator. He said that he was aware of the touch command. He said in my case (where it happens every
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 19, 2010
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        Hi Jeff,

        Thanks for the reply.

        I checked with our administrator. He said that he was aware of the touch command. He said in my case (where it happens every single time I click back to my Window, no matter when or how many times I do it) that it wasn't possible that we have anything constantly updating the file timestamps. He does agree that it is somehow server related though. Unfortunately he's not really all that bothered with figuring it out though because he's busy with other stuff.

        There's actually only two of us that update files on the server, the server administrator being the other person. It's very rare that we would be working on the same file, but it does happen occasionally.

        I'm starting to think that your idea of working locally may be my only option until I figure this out. That will work for a lot of stuff that I edit. I hope to figure this out soon though. It really is bothersome.

        Thanks,
        Debbie
      • debbie_packer
        I submitted this problem to Fookes. Their solution was to turn off the feature if it does not work for my setup. I explained that turning off the feature was
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 19, 2010
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          I submitted this problem to Fookes. Their solution was to turn off the feature if it does not work for my setup. I explained that turning off the feature was not really a solution (that creates another obvious problem), but it sounds like they don't have any suggestions to help me.

          I was disappointed (and surprised) by the response. That would sort of be like tech support for my smoke detector telling me to remove the batteries if I could not get the noise to stop.
        • Jeff Seager
          Hmmm. I understand the disappointment, but what can Fookes do about the problem if it s in your network configuration, as I m about 95 percent certain it is?
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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            Hmmm. I understand the disappointment, but what can Fookes do about the problem if it's in your network configuration, as I'm about 95 percent certain it is? Did you see my previous note, discuss it with your sysadmin?

            Jeff

            To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
            From: debbie_packer@...
            Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:31:11 +0000
            Subject: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?
































            I submitted this problem to Fookes. Their solution was to turn off the feature if it does not work for my setup. I explained that turning off the feature was not really a solution (that creates another obvious problem), but it sounds like they don't have any suggestions to help me.



            I was disappointed (and surprised) by the response. That would sort of be like tech support for my smoke detector telling me to remove the batteries if I could not get the noise to stop.


















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          • debbie_packer
            Hi Jeff, I did see your previous note. Thanks for the suggestion...I posted a reply yesterday afternoon. I don t blame Fookes for the issue, but I was
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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              Hi Jeff,

              I did see your previous note. Thanks for the suggestion...I posted a reply yesterday afternoon.

              I don't blame Fookes for the issue, but I was disappointed that they came back with that response almost instantly. It was as if they didn't even give it a thought before responding. I guess I would have thought that knowing their own software better than anyone that they would at the very least have a suggestion...or at least thought about it for 15 minutes before sending a response to at least indicate that they might care that someone was having a problem with their software.

              Most software developers are willing to help you figure out your problem if for no other reason than to be able to help any other customers that experience it. Even if it is a configuration issue on our server, their software is still the only software that is experiencing a problem. Software developers release updates all the time based on system upgrades, etc. We think it actually may be a Samba issue (it doesn't happen on our other server that is running an older version of Samba). If that is the case, I would see that as similar to Adobe making an update to their software if Windows or Mac released an upgrade.

              I guess it doesn't matter. There are other editor choices out there. It's just frustrating that I've used and purchased their software for ten years and they could care less about trying to help. It says a lot.

              Thanks again for the tips though. I sincerely appreciate the help.

              Debbie

              --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Seager <abrojos@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hmmm. I understand the disappointment, but what can Fookes do about the problem if it's in your network configuration, as I'm about 95 percent certain it is? Did you see my previous note, discuss it with your sysadmin?
              >
              > Jeff
              >
            • Eric Fookes
              Hi Debbie, I m sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested workaround. We don t know why your server is causing a file date stamp
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                Hi Debbie,

                I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested
                workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp
                mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,
                we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to
                fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.

                --
                Regards,

                Eric Fookes
                http://www.fookes.com/

                On 20/07/2010 14:27, debbie_packer wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Jeff,
                >
                > I did see your previous note. Thanks for the suggestion...I posted a reply yesterday afternoon.
                >
                > I don't blame Fookes for the issue, but I was disappointed that they came back with that response almost instantly. It was as if they didn't even give it a thought before responding. I guess I would have thought that knowing their own software better than anyone that they would at the very least have a suggestion...or at least thought about it for 15 minutes before sending a response to at least indicate that they might care that someone was having a problem with their software.
                >
                > Most software developers are willing to help you figure out your problem if for no other reason than to be able to help any other customers that experience it. Even if it is a configuration issue on our server, their software is still the only software that is experiencing a problem. Software developers release updates all the time based on system upgrades, etc. We think it actually may be a Samba issue (it doesn't happen on our other server that is running an older version of Samba). If that is the case, I would see that as similar to Adobe making an update to their software if Windows or Mac released an upgrade.
                >
                > I guess it doesn't matter. There are other editor choices out there. It's just frustrating that I've used and purchased their software for ten years and they could care less about trying to help. It says a lot.
                >
                > Thanks again for the tips though. I sincerely appreciate the help.
                >
                > Debbie
                >
                > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Seager<abrojos@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >> Hmmm. I understand the disappointment, but what can Fookes do about the problem if it's in your network configuration, as I'm about 95 percent certain it is? Did you see my previous note, discuss it with your sysadmin?
                >>
                >> Jeff
              • Brian Mailman
                ... I think it should be assumed that they know their software and how it works to a 99.99% certainty. It seems they could tell instantly that there wasn t a
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                  debbie_packer wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Jeff,
                  >
                  > I did see your previous note. Thanks for the suggestion...I posted a
                  > reply yesterday afternoon.
                  >
                  > I don't blame Fookes for the issue, but I was disappointed that they
                  > came back with that response almost instantly. It was as if they
                  > didn't even give it a thought before responding......or at least
                  > thought about it for 15 minutes before sending a response to at least
                  > indicate that they might care that someone was having a problem with
                  > their software.

                  I think it should be assumed that they know their software and how it
                  works to a 99.99% certainty. It seems they could tell instantly that
                  there wasn't a solution to your issue. There are just some things, like
                  seeing if water is boiling at sea level to know the temperature is
                  212F/100C *instantly* without having to wait and test it.

                  I know it would *feel* better to you, and be reassuring, if they'd
                  waited that 15 minutes to say the exact same thing, "We don't know
                  what's happening. We think it's something in your personal
                  configuration." In reality they didn't, they don't, and it's the same
                  response either way.

                  Your job is not to prove that Fookes Software isn't sensitive to
                  customer issues because your issue wasn't solved. Your job is to prove
                  that Fookes Software is incorrect in their assessment1 that the issue is
                  not at their end.

                  1 THEN, if they don't fix whatever it is in a timely manner you have a
                  case for "they don't care."

                  B/
                  B/
                • debbie_packer
                  ... You can turn the feature off if it isn t compatible with your setup. To do so, open the NoteTab Options dialog box, go to the General tab, and uncheck the
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                    In my defense, this is the first response I received:

                    ---
                    You can turn the feature off if it isn't compatible with your setup. To do so, open the NoteTab Options dialog box, go to the General tab, and uncheck the "Check Changes on Activate" setting.
                    ---

                    It did not say that they did not know what was happening, just to turn it off. So, in reality, it's not the same response either way...but thanks. :)



                    --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Brian Mailman <bmailman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > debbie_packer wrote:

                    >
                    > I think it should be assumed that they know their software and how it
                    > works to a 99.99% certainty. It seems they could tell instantly that
                    > there wasn't a solution to your issue. There are just some things, like
                    > seeing if water is boiling at sea level to know the temperature is
                    > 212F/100C *instantly* without having to wait and test it.
                    >
                    > I know it would *feel* better to you, and be reassuring, if they'd
                    > waited that 15 minutes to say the exact same thing, "We don't know
                    > what's happening. We think it's something in your personal
                    > configuration." In reality they didn't, they don't, and it's the same
                    > response either way.
                    >
                    > Your job is not to prove that Fookes Software isn't sensitive to
                    > customer issues because your issue wasn't solved. Your job is to prove
                    > that Fookes Software is incorrect in their assessment1 that the issue is
                    > not at their end.
                    >
                    > 1 THEN, if they don't fix whatever it is in a timely manner you have a
                    > case for "they don't care."
                    >
                    > B/
                    > B/
                    >
                  • debbie_packer
                    ... Thank you for your response here. I m not trying to be difficult, I was just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it s not
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                      --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Debbie,
                      >
                      > I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested
                      > workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp
                      > mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,
                      > we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to
                      > fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Eric Fookes
                      > http://www.fookes.com/

                      Thank you for your response here. I'm not trying to be difficult, I was just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it's not working. I don't really consider that a work-around because turning it off is not going to help the feature work. Right?

                      I will be interested to visit this forum again when others upgrade to the new version of Samba to see if they have the same problem (if that's what the problem really is). But at least there's already a thread here to tell them that it's their problem to figure out.

                      Thanks again.
                    • John Shotsky
                      Having been a software product manager in my past, I can tell you that most user problems and the solutions for those problems go into a database. Support s
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                        Having been a software product manager in my past, I can tell you that most user 'problems' and the
                        solutions for those problems go into a database. Support's job is to answer as quickly and as
                        accurately as possible. If a problem is already documented, the speed with which it is answered is
                        unrelated to a company's intent to help. If you don't LIKE the offered solution, ask to speak to
                        someone higher up the food chain. I talked to many customers that didn't like their first
                        'solution'. Just part of the job. I would not have been happy, however, if someone didn't like the
                        offered solution, and then went about discussing the company in a negative way in some public group.


                        Regards,
                        John

                        From: notetab@yahoogroups.com [mailto:notetab@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of debbie_packer
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 09:07
                        To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?


                        In my defense, this is the first response I received:

                        ---
                        You can turn the feature off if it isn't compatible with your setup. To do so, open the NoteTab
                        Options dialog box, go to the General tab, and uncheck the "Check Changes on Activate" setting.
                        ---

                        It did not say that they did not know what was happening, just to turn it off. So, in reality, it's
                        not the same response either way...but thanks. :)

                        --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com <mailto:notetab%40yahoogroups.com> , Brian Mailman <bmailman@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > debbie_packer wrote:

                        >
                        > I think it should be assumed that they know their software and how it
                        > works to a 99.99% certainty. It seems they could tell instantly that
                        > there wasn't a solution to your issue. There are just some things, like
                        > seeing if water is boiling at sea level to know the temperature is
                        > 212F/100C *instantly* without having to wait and test it.
                        >
                        > I know it would *feel* better to you, and be reassuring, if they'd
                        > waited that 15 minutes to say the exact same thing, "We don't know
                        > what's happening. We think it's something in your personal
                        > configuration." In reality they didn't, they don't, and it's the same
                        > response either way.
                        >
                        > Your job is not to prove that Fookes Software isn't sensitive to
                        > customer issues because your issue wasn't solved. Your job is to prove
                        > that Fookes Software is incorrect in their assessment1 that the issue is
                        > not at their end.
                        >
                        > 1 THEN, if they don't fix whatever it is in a timely manner you have a
                        > case for "they don't care."
                        >
                        > B/
                        > B/
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Brian Mailman
                        ... Since this isn t a trial, there s not need to mount a defense :) ... The point remains. If they had sent that immediately, or sent it after waiting 15
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                          debbie_packer wrote:
                          > In my defense, this is the first response I received:

                          Since this isn't a trial, there's not need to mount a defense :)

                          > --- You can turn the feature off if it isn't compatible with your
                          > setup. To do so, open the NoteTab Options dialog box, go to the
                          > General tab, and uncheck the "Check Changes on Activate" setting. ---
                          >
                          >
                          > It did not say that they did not know what was happening, just to
                          > turn it off. So, in reality, it's not the same response either
                          > way...but thanks. :)

                          The point remains. If they had sent that immediately, or sent it after
                          waiting 15 minutes from determining the issue, it's the same answer
                          either way. The only difference is that you're more willing to accept
                          it if it were the latter.

                          From Eric's message I understand that fast response time is important
                          to him and his company, but look at it from another point of view.
                          Doing it your way (which makes you feel better about the response
                          itself, which is not a bad thing in and of itself, btw, I'm not
                          discounting that). It opens them up to someone else charging that they
                          don't care because it took a while to receive an answer and that they
                          don't understand that issues are important to users.

                          B/
                        • Eric Fookes
                          Hi Debbie, When you wrote about the issue of the modified files notifications popping up all the time, it was not clear to me that the feature was important to
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                            Hi Debbie,

                            When you wrote about the issue of the modified files notifications
                            popping up all the time, it was not clear to me that the feature was
                            important to you and that you wanted to keep using it. I had understood
                            that you were simply looking for a way to stop those notifications from
                            appearing. It was not my intention to brush you off. I really thought my
                            suggestion answered your support request.

                            --
                            Regards,

                            Eric Fookes
                            http://www.fookes.com/

                            On 20/07/2010 18:11, debbie_packer wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes<egroups@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Hi Debbie,
                            >>
                            >> I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested
                            >> workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp
                            >> mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,
                            >> we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to
                            >> fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >> Regards,
                            >>
                            >> Eric Fookes
                            >> http://www.fookes.com/
                            >
                            > Thank you for your response here. I'm not trying to be difficult, I was just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it's not working. I don't really consider that a work-around because turning it off is not going to help the feature work. Right?
                            >
                            > I will be interested to visit this forum again when others upgrade to the new version of Samba to see if they have the same problem (if that's what the problem really is). But at least there's already a thread here to tell them that it's their problem to figure out.
                            >
                            > Thanks again.
                          • debbie_packer
                            Thanks, Eric. You are correct that I did not make it clear that the feature was important to me. I thought that was implied and that I supplied plenty of
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jul 20, 2010
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                              Thanks, Eric.

                              You are correct that I did not make it clear that the feature was important to me. I thought that was implied and that I supplied plenty of information. I am starting to regret that I ever wrote to ask your support people for help or that I posted a message here. While several people here were very nice and offered helpful suggestions, others here apparently think I'm horrible for having an opinion and feel that they need to tell me how to think.

                              John - I DID ask again for further assistance. And, I don't see how telling the others that were helping me what I did is discussing the company in a negative way. If you actually read my response from earlier, you would have noticed that the first thing I said was that I do not blame Fookes for the issue, but that I was disappointed that no one there wanted to try to help. There's nothing wrong with saying that and you have no reason to attack me for that.

                              The only reason I wrote on the forum that I had contacted Fookes is because one of the early responses from someone trying to help suggested that I contact them and report the problem. I started here so as not to bother them because I thought maybe someone else might have experienced the same problem. It turns out that I was correct, but they had not found a solution either. I posted that I had contacted them since it had been suggested to me. I posted that I was not satisfied with my response because I was not satisfied with my response. Is there anything wrong with that? I didn't say anything bad about Fookes other than that they didn't really help me. That part is true. They did respond quickly, but they didn't help. They told me to turn off the feature. I told them that I wanted to be able to use the feature, and they told me that they could not help. Apparently saying that here is taboo though. I'm not wrong in saying that other software developers offer to help in situations like this, even if it may not be a problem with their software. I know because I've experienced it. Some of you people need to chill though. I was just asking for help and posted that I didn't really get any help. I was not trying to attack anyone, but some of you don't mind attacking me. So, sorry I asked. I've gone from being a 10-year happy customer to thinking about just deleting my software and hoping I never hear about it again.

                              Thanks Jeff, Don, and Eb for your helpful suggestions from earlier! Your help is most appreciated.

                              Debbie

                              --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Debbie,
                              >
                              > When you wrote about the issue of the modified files notifications
                              > popping up all the time, it was not clear to me that the feature was
                              > important to you and that you wanted to keep using it. I had understood
                              > that you were simply looking for a way to stop those notifications from
                              > appearing. It was not my intention to brush you off. I really thought my
                              > suggestion answered your support request.
                              >
                              > --
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Eric Fookes
                              > http://www.fookes.com/
                              >
                              > On 20/07/2010 18:11, debbie_packer wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes<egroups@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> Hi Debbie,
                              > >>
                              > >> I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested
                              > >> workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp
                              > >> mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,
                              > >> we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to
                              > >> fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.
                              > >>
                              > >> --
                              > >> Regards,
                              > >>
                              > >> Eric Fookes
                              > >> http://www.fookes.com/
                              > >
                              > > Thank you for your response here. I'm not trying to be difficult, I was just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it's not working. I don't really consider that a work-around because turning it off is not going to help the feature work. Right?
                              > >
                              > > I will be interested to visit this forum again when others upgrade to the new version of Samba to see if they have the same problem (if that's what the problem really is). But at least there's already a thread here to tell them that it's their problem to figure out.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks again.
                              >
                            • Jeff Seager
                              Hi again Debbie, Of all the things that have been covered here, the one thing that troubles me most is hearing that you might just uninstall NoteTab. It only
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jul 21, 2010
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                                Hi again Debbie,

                                Of all the things that have been covered here, the one thing that troubles me most is hearing that you might just uninstall NoteTab. It only troubles me because I've used a lot of different software from big corporations and small ones since (omg) 1982, and this is without any reservation one of the best programs I have EVER used. It's useful to me in very many ways, especially when I roll up my sleeves and develop clips or refine and customize clips that others have developed. NoteTab has saved me huge amounts of work over the years.

                                Just keep this in mind: Very many network administrators have an innate tendency to slough off a lot of work by acting as if a problem couldn't possibly have been caused by anything THEY did, even if everything points to that. I've seen it for most of my adult life. Not saying anything bad about the people you work with, but it happens. Seems sometimes as if we play a support role to them, instead of the other way around as it should be. So it's natural not to want to trouble those people, even if they are the most logical source of the problem. I can't blame you a bit for looking here first.

                                I'm still not clear on how your organization manages these editable files on a network that allows access to all. Without proper controls, everyone would be overwriting everyone else's work all the time. In such a case, NoteTab may have been just the alarm your folks need to alert them to a potentially serious problem.

                                Dos centavos mios (and I sincerely hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction),
                                Jeff


                                To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
                                From: debbie_packer@...
                                Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:00:29 +0000
                                Subject: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?
































                                Thanks, Eric.



                                You are correct that I did not make it clear that the feature was important to me. I thought that was implied and that I supplied plenty of information. I am starting to regret that I ever wrote to ask your support people for help or that I posted a message here. While several people here were very nice and offered helpful suggestions, others here apparently think I'm horrible for having an opinion and feel that they need to tell me how to think.



                                John - I DID ask again for further assistance. And, I don't see how telling the others that were helping me what I did is discussing the company in a negative way. If you actually read my response from earlier, you would have noticed that the first thing I said was that I do not blame Fookes for the issue, but that I was disappointed that no one there wanted to try to help. There's nothing wrong with saying that and you have no reason to attack me for that.



                                The only reason I wrote on the forum that I had contacted Fookes is because one of the early responses from someone trying to help suggested that I contact them and report the problem. I started here so as not to bother them because I thought maybe someone else might have experienced the same problem. It turns out that I was correct, but they had not found a solution either. I posted that I had contacted them since it had been suggested to me. I posted that I was not satisfied with my response because I was not satisfied with my response. Is there anything wrong with that? I didn't say anything bad about Fookes other than that they didn't really help me. That part is true. They did respond quickly, but they didn't help. They told me to turn off the feature. I told them that I wanted to be able to use the feature, and they told me that they could not help. Apparently saying that here is taboo though. I'm not wrong in saying that other software developers offer to help in situations like this, even if it may not be a problem with their software. I know because I've experienced it. Some of you people need to chill though. I was just asking for help and posted that I didn't really get any help. I was not trying to attack anyone, but some of you don't mind attacking me. So, sorry I asked. I've gone from being a 10-year happy customer to thinking about just deleting my software and hoping I never hear about it again.



                                Thanks Jeff, Don, and Eb for your helpful suggestions from earlier! Your help is most appreciated.



                                Debbie



                                --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:

                                >

                                > Hi Debbie,

                                >

                                > When you wrote about the issue of the modified files notifications

                                > popping up all the time, it was not clear to me that the feature was

                                > important to you and that you wanted to keep using it. I had understood

                                > that you were simply looking for a way to stop those notifications from

                                > appearing. It was not my intention to brush you off. I really thought my

                                > suggestion answered your support request.

                                >

                                > --

                                > Regards,

                                >

                                > Eric Fookes

                                > http://www.fookes.com/

                                >

                                > On 20/07/2010 18:11, debbie_packer wrote:

                                > >

                                > >

                                > > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes<egroups@> wrote:

                                > >>

                                > >> Hi Debbie,

                                > >>

                                > >> I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested

                                > >> workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp

                                > >> mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,

                                > >> we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to

                                > >> fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.

                                > >>

                                > >> --

                                > >> Regards,

                                > >>

                                > >> Eric Fookes

                                > >> http://www.fookes.com/

                                > >

                                > > Thank you for your response here. I'm not trying to be difficult, I was just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it's not working. I don't really consider that a work-around because turning it off is not going to help the feature work. Right?

                                > >

                                > > I will be interested to visit this forum again when others upgrade to the new version of Samba to see if they have the same problem (if that's what the problem really is). But at least there's already a thread here to tell them that it's their problem to figure out.

                                > >

                                > > Thanks again.

                                >


















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                              • Don
                                I ll second that thought! It s a fantastic program. If you are using it as a plain text editor you are missing the power. Anyway, may I suggest that you
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jul 21, 2010
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                                  I'll second that thought! It's a fantastic program. If you are using
                                  it as a plain text editor you are missing the power.

                                  Anyway, may I suggest that you simply take your copy, save it locally at
                                  first, then use examdif or other such program at the end to compare
                                  before reloading it.

                                  That will show you if something is changing. Given that someone may
                                  actually be changing it at the same time, this is a good procedure anyway.

                                  On 7/21/2010 5:37 AM, Jeff Seager wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi again Debbie,
                                  >
                                  > Of all the things that have been covered here, the one thing that troubles me most is hearing that you might just uninstall NoteTab. It only troubles me because I've used a lot of different software from big corporations and small ones since (omg) 1982, and this is without any reservation one of the best programs I have EVER used. It's useful to me in very many ways, especially when I roll up my sleeves and develop clips or refine and customize clips that others have developed. NoteTab has saved me huge amounts of work over the years.
                                  >
                                  > Just keep this in mind: Very many network administrators have an innate tendency to slough off a lot of work by acting as if a problem couldn't possibly have been caused by anything THEY did, even if everything points to that. I've seen it for most of my adult life. Not saying anything bad about the people you work with, but it happens. Seems sometimes as if we play a support role to them, instead of the other way around as it should be. So it's natural not to want to trouble those people, even if they are the most logical source of the problem. I can't blame you a bit for looking here first.
                                  >
                                  > I'm still not clear on how your organization manages these editable files on a network that allows access to all. Without proper controls, everyone would be overwriting everyone else's work all the time. In such a case, NoteTab may have been just the alarm your folks need to alert them to a potentially serious problem.
                                  >
                                  > Dos centavos mios (and I sincerely hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction),
                                  > Jeff
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To: notetab@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: debbie_packer@...
                                  > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:00:29 +0000
                                  > Subject: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload it?
                                  >
                                • Rod Dav4is
                                  Could the trouble lie in a seriously out-of-sync clock on one of the computers? -R. ... -- Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jul 21, 2010
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                                    Could the trouble lie in a seriously out-of-sync clock on one of the
                                    computers?
                                    -R.

                                    debbie_packer wrote in part:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thanks, Eric.
                                    >
                                    > You are correct that I did not make it clear that the feature was
                                    > important to me. I thought that was implied and that I supplied plenty
                                    > of information. I am starting to regret that I ever wrote to ask your
                                    > support people for help or that I posted a message here. While several
                                    > people here were very nice and offered helpful suggestions, others
                                    > here apparently think I'm horrible for having an opinion and feel that
                                    > they need to tell me how to think.
                                    >

                                    --
                                    Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA
                                    Genealogy, et Cetera: http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dav4is/
                                    538 ancestral & collateral families, mostly 17°-19° century
                                    New England & European roots. Total population: 136,000+
                                    Annex: http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/
                                    email: DAV4IS@...
                                    A Democrat, a Republican and a giraffe walk into a bar. The
                                    bartender looks up from his want ads and says, "What is this, a joke?"
                                    -unknown
                                  • SueW
                                    Hey, just wanted to tell you I love Notetab lite! I just discovered the little programming language and am having fun messing around with it (for the HTML
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jul 21, 2010
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                                      Hey, just wanted to tell you I love Notetab lite! I just discovered the
                                      little programming language and am having fun messing around with it (for
                                      the HTML library). I also have created several libraries with all my
                                      research URLs and studies to quote... awesome! I'm using NoteTab to edit my
                                      websites and I love it! I have Notetab loaded all the time because I'm
                                      always using it. And discovering new and wonderful features of it. And
                                      it's so robust also - I love that aspect!

                                      With all the questions, you probably don't hear how many of us feel this
                                      product is the bestest! So I thought I'd write a fan letter... just really
                                      a nice carefully written piece of software! love it love it love it...

                                      SueW

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Eric Fookes" <egroups@...>
                                      To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:02 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [NTB] Re: Another application has modified [filename]. Reload
                                      it?


                                      > Hi Debbie,
                                      >
                                      > When you wrote about the issue of the modified files notifications
                                      > popping up all the time, it was not clear to me that the feature was
                                      > important to you and that you wanted to keep using it. I had understood
                                      > that you were simply looking for a way to stop those notifications from
                                      > appearing. It was not my intention to brush you off. I really thought my
                                      > suggestion answered your support request.
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Regards,
                                      >
                                      > Eric Fookes
                                      > http://www.fookes.com/
                                      >
                                      > On 20/07/2010 18:11, debbie_packer wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes<egroups@...> wrote:
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Hi Debbie,
                                      >>>
                                      >>> I'm sorry you were disappointed by the fast response and the suggested
                                      >>> workaround. We don't know why your server is causing a file date stamp
                                      >>> mismatch, but we know the issue is external to NoteTab. Unfortunately,
                                      >>> we are not able to help you change your server configuration in order to
                                      >>> fix the issue. If we knew of such a fix, we would have told you.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --
                                      >>> Regards,
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Eric Fookes
                                      >>> http://www.fookes.com/
                                      >>
                                      >> Thank you for your response here. I'm not trying to be difficult, I was
                                      >> just annoyed by an initial response to just turn off the feature if it's
                                      >> not working. I don't really consider that a work-around because turning
                                      >> it off is not going to help the feature work. Right?
                                      >>
                                      >> I will be interested to visit this forum again when others upgrade to the
                                      >> new version of Samba to see if they have the same problem (if that's what
                                      >> the problem really is). But at least there's already a thread here to
                                      >> tell them that it's their problem to figure out.
                                      >>
                                      >> Thanks again.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
                                      > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
                                      > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
                                      >
                                      > ***
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Eb
                                      Jeff, Eric, ... This attitude is not limited to network administrators. I have reported the another app has modified... issue and the hanging NoteTab
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jul 22, 2010
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                                        Jeff, Eric,

                                        --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Seager <abrojos@...> wrote:
                                        > ...
                                        >
                                        > Just keep this in mind: Very many network administrators have an innate tendency to slough off a lot of work by acting as if a problem couldn't possibly have been caused by anything THEY did


                                        This attitude is not limited to network administrators.

                                        I have reported the "another app has modified..." issue and the "hanging NoteTab instances" to Fookes in the past, repeatedly, as well as in this thread. I see the two issues as related to each other. It may have some relation to Windows' delayed writing to disk, but if so, NoteTab ought to deal with it automatically. I have seen the "other app" problem right after saving a NEW clip library to disk. At the time there was a second instance of NoteTab hanging from the last restart.

                                        In the past Fookes' support has apparently decided I'm a crackpot. But consider the numbers of NoteTab copies sold compared to the few people who frequent these groups. Even _one_ report of a problem ought to be given credence.


                                        I use an isolated machine to develop NoteTab scripts. I never connect this PC to a network EXCEPT to upgrade Windows. All other upgrades are done from files downloaded via sneaker net, even my virus definitions. I use this maching only for NoteTab library development. The only applications I run on it, that might alter a library file, are various versions of NoteTab, and occasionally Notepad. While runnning NoteTab I also run Windows explorer, NoteTab Help, and SQLite3. Neither of these two apps modifies NoteTab's library files. Yet I experience the "other app ..." problem routinely.

                                        I don't see how this could be caused by anything BUT NoteTab. Even if it were caused by the OS, it would be a relationship that the vendor ought to be aware of.


                                        I do appreciate NoteTab as a great program (otherwise I would simply stop using it). I also appreciate the unusual responsiveness of its author. It is that past responsiveness, that emphasizes the irony of claiming the subject problem to be "external to NoteTab".


                                        Eb

                                        OS support, "it's the application's fault."
                                        App programmer, "it's the operating system's fault."
                                        OS support, "so program around it!"
                                      • Lee Underwood
                                        I have too say that I too experience the another app has modified... on occasion. It only happens when i am working on a file that is an .ini file that I
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jul 25, 2010
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                                          I have too say that I too experience the "another app has modified..." on occasion. It only happens when i am working on a file that is an .ini file that I created. When I switch to another program and back to the .ini it sometimes asks "another app has modified...". I am using Ubuntu Linux, running NoteTab under Wine. I just tell it "no" and go on. It also started out of nowhere, without any changes made to the program or the environment. I was a bit interested in why it was happening, though.

                                          Lee


                                          >
                                          > I have reported the "another app has modified..." issue and the "hanging NoteTab instances" to Fookes in the past, repeatedly, as well as in this thread. I see the two issues as related to each other. It may have some relation to Windows' delayed writing to disk, but if so, NoteTab ought to deal with it automatically. I have seen the "other app" problem right after saving a NEW clip library to disk. At the time there was a second instance of NoteTab hanging from the last restart.
                                          >
                                          > I use an isolated machine to develop NoteTab scripts. I never connect this PC to a network EXCEPT to upgrade Windows. All other upgrades are done from files downloaded via sneaker net, even my virus definitions. I use this maching only for NoteTab library development. The only applications I run on it, that might alter a library file, are various versions of NoteTab, and occasionally Notepad. While runnning NoteTab I also run Windows explorer, NoteTab Help, and SQLite3. Neither of these two apps modifies NoteTab's library files. Yet I experience the "other app ..." problem routinely.
                                          >
                                          > I don't see how this could be caused by anything BUT NoteTab. Even if it were caused by the OS, it would be a relationship that the vendor ought to be aware of.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I do appreciate NoteTab as a great program (otherwise I would simply stop using it). I also appreciate the unusual responsiveness of its author. It is that past responsiveness, that emphasizes the irony of claiming the subject problem to be "external to NoteTab".
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Jeffery
                                          ... I usually see it when morer than one instance of NTB is open. or you are running a program which is associated with an open file, or I am using a FTP
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                            On 7/25/2010 6:06 PM, Lee Underwood wrote:
                                            > I have too say that I too experience the "another app has modified..." on occasion. It only happens when i am working on a file that is an .ini file that I created. When I switch to another program and back to the .ini it sometimes asks "another app has modified...". I am using Ubuntu Linux, running NoteTab under Wine. I just tell it "no" and go on. It also started out of nowhere, without any changes made to the program or the environment. I was a bit interested in why it was happening, though.
                                            >
                                            > Lee
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            I usually see it when morer than one instance of NTB is open. or you are
                                            running a program which is associated with an open file, or I am using
                                            a FTP client.
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