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Delete bug

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  • polisource
    Is there a known bug that prevents text from being deleted with the backspace key or that causes text in a completely different part of the document to be
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 6, 2008
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      Is there a known bug that prevents text from being deleted with the
      backspace key or that causes text in a completely different part of the
      document to be changed when editing something else? Should I try to
      reproduce the problem and post the steps here or is there a better
      place?
    • ebbtidalflats
      Hi Polis Our CE, If you can delete text by selecting, and cutting then you may be looking at a bug. If you cannot delete it in any way, it may not be a bug,
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 7, 2008
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        Hi Polis Our CE,

        If you can delete text by selecting, and cutting then
        you may be looking at a bug.
        If you cannot delete it in any way, it may not be
        a bug, but a write-protected file.

        1. the author write-protected the file

        2. there is an option in the Document menu
        to protect or unprotect files.

        3. the file is Unicode, and NoteTab is configured
        to protect unicode files
        (View menu-->Options-->General)

        As to changing the text in a different part of the document,
        this may be a combination of a bug and a misinterpretation:

        NoteTab provides TWO SEPARATE cursors.

        1. The text entry cursor, where the next text operation
        will take place,
        2. the MOUSE cursor, which will affect any mouse action,
        such as changing focus, running a clip, etc,
        or such as moving the text entry cursor to the position
        of the mouse cursor, when you left-click the mouse.

        Some times, for mysterious reasons, the text cursor dis-
        appears (Windows or NoteTab bug). In that case you will
        only see ONE cursor. If the problem is happening,
        LEFT-CLICK your mouse to see if the text-entry location
        will change. If NOT you have discovered a new bug.


        Finally, if the two problems always occur together,
        check with the same method (left-click).


        Others may benefit if you post your test esults here.


        As to posting the steps that lead to your problem,

        that's ALWAYS a good idea.


        Cheers

        Eb




        --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "polisource" <polisource@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is there a known bug that prevents text from being deleted with the
        > backspace key or that causes text in a completely different part of the
        > document to be changed when editing something else? Should I try to
        > reproduce the problem and post the steps here or is there a better
        > place?
        >
      • polisource
        I can t reproduce it. I ll provide more detail if it pops up again. There were numerous weird things happening at once. I also couldn t insert the cursor at
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 7, 2008
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          I can't reproduce it. I'll provide more detail if it pops up again.
          There were numerous weird things happening at once. I also couldn't
          insert the cursor at the end of a line, there were line breaks after
          some angle brackets where they didn't belong, and I think there were
          square characters scattered about. Some things were deletable, but I
          couldn't delete group of blank lines by highlighting them and hitting
          backspace.
        • polisource
          I reproduced it! I don t know if it causes all the problems I mentioned, but this will cause square characters to appear. Maybe you can create a smaller code
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 7, 2008
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            I reproduced it! I don't know if it causes all the problems I
            mentioned, but this will cause square characters to appear. Maybe you
            can create a smaller code sample that demonstrates the bug using a
            simpler procedure, but this is all I have so far:

            1. Open http://www.polisource.com/misc/tv-listing-jan6.html in
            NoteTab Light 5.5 on Windows XP. Make sure it's editable (I don't
            know how but I already have an editable copy that I used).

            2. Scroll down to the comment that says "1st page left side goes
            here..." which is a few lines past the body tag.

            3. Put the cursor at the beginning of the next line (before the
            opening angle bracket for the ul tag), hold the left mouse button
            down, and drag the cursor down to highlight everything from that
            point to the line before the /div tag, then hit backspace. In other
            words, you have to delete the spaced blocks for channels 1 through 63.

            4. A few lines down from what you just deleted will be a comment that
            says "1st page right side goes here..." Repeat step 3.

            5. A few lines down from what you just deleted, put the cursor at the
            beginning of the blank line under the "div class" line, left click,
            drag down the cursor to select the three blank lines, and press
            backspace to delete them.

            That's it - square characters will appear on the line of the cursor.
          • Eric Fookes
            Hi, I just tried what you explained and was able to reproduce the issue. The workaround that seems to fix it is to simply toggle wordwrap off and then back on.
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 8, 2008
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              Hi,

              I just tried what you explained and was able to reproduce the issue. The
              workaround that seems to fix it is to simply toggle wordwrap off and
              then back on.

              Unfortunately, it seems to be a bug in the Windows rich-edit control,
              which NoteTab Light uses. So there is nothing in the actual NoteTab code
              that can be corrected to fix the issue. I tried with NoteTab Pro and it
              works fine.

              --
              Regards,

              Eric Fookes
              http://www.fookes.com/


              polisource wrote:
              > I reproduced it! I don't know if it causes all the problems I
              > mentioned, but this will cause square characters to appear. Maybe you
              > can create a smaller code sample that demonstrates the bug using a
              > simpler procedure, but this is all I have so far:
              >
              > 1. Open http://www.polisource.com/misc/tv-listing-jan6.html in
              > NoteTab Light 5.5 on Windows XP. Make sure it's editable (I don't
              > know how but I already have an editable copy that I used).
              >
              > 2. Scroll down to the comment that says "1st page left side goes
              > here..." which is a few lines past the body tag.
              >
              > 3. Put the cursor at the beginning of the next line (before the
              > opening angle bracket for the ul tag), hold the left mouse button
              > down, and drag the cursor down to highlight everything from that
              > point to the line before the /div tag, then hit backspace. In other
              > words, you have to delete the spaced blocks for channels 1 through 63.
              >
              > 4. A few lines down from what you just deleted will be a comment that
              > says "1st page right side goes here..." Repeat step 3.
              >
              > 5. A few lines down from what you just deleted, put the cursor at the
              > beginning of the blank line under the "div class" line, left click,
              > drag down the cursor to select the three blank lines, and press
              > backspace to delete them.
              >
              > That's it - square characters will appear on the line of the cursor.
            • polisource
              That makes this the third word wrap bug I ve found in Microsoft products. I guess I have to consider buying Notetab Pro.
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 8, 2008
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                That makes this the third word wrap bug I've found in Microsoft
                products. I guess I have to consider buying Notetab Pro.
              • Bert Byfield
                ... A wise choice anyway. :-)
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 8, 2008
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                  polisource wrote:
                  > That makes this the third word wrap bug I've found in Microsoft
                  > products. I guess I have to consider buying Notetab Pro.

                  A wise choice anyway. :-)
                • Matt Clark
                  ... A wise choice anyway. :-) Pardon me for butting in off topic, but did anyone see the article in last Sunday s (Jan. 5) NY Times Magazine by Virginia
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                    polisource wrote:
                    > That makes this the third word wrap bug I've found in Microsoft
                    > products. I guess I have to consider buying Notetab Pro.

                    A wise choice anyway. :-)

                    Pardon me for butting in off topic, but did anyone see the article in last Sunday's (Jan. 5) NY Times Magazine by Virginia Herffernan extolling alternatives to Word? Although it wasn't mentioned, I would assume that NoteTab would qualify as such, since it has not format and gives one a perfectly full, blank screen to write on. NoteTab experts should read the piece and give there thoughts on this list.

                    Matt Clark




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dennis Hays
                    ... last ... Just to amplify... I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while composing my ebooks. It s far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                      On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:29:35 -0500, "Matt Clark" <mattclark@...> wrote:

                      > Pardon me for butting in off topic, but did anyone see the article in
                      last
                      > Sunday's (Jan. 5) NY Times Magazine by Virginia Herffernan extolling
                      > alternatives to Word? Although it wasn't mentioned, I would assume that
                      > NoteTab would qualify as such, since it has not format and gives one a
                      > perfectly full, blank screen to write on. NoteTab experts should read the
                      > piece and give there thoughts on this list.
                      >

                      Just to amplify... I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                      composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                      some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                      into some layout program.

                      As the interface is less distracting than any word-processing package, I
                      feel I can concentrate on the content and not on the mechanics of the
                      application. So, Matt, I agree - it should have been mentioned in the NY
                      Times magazine. It was probably just an oversight!

                      --
                      Best,

                      Dennis
                      --------------------
                      Photo News Today
                      www.photonewstoday.com
                      Secrets of Digital Imaging
                      www.imagingsecrets.com
                      --------------------
                    • Matt Clark
                      Dennis Hays wrote: I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while composing my ebooks. It s far easier for me to just get the prose out, do some
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                        Dennis Hays wrote:

                        I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                        composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                        some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                        into some "layout program."

                        What layout program would you recommend? I don't do heavy graphics stuff and would want a fairly simple, and cheap one.

                        Matt Clark


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • syntheticgin
                        ... out, do ... file ... stuff and would want a fairly simple, and cheap one. ... tried using notetab pro for some word processing but could not find some
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                          --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Clark" <mattclark@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dennis Hays wrote:
                          >
                          > I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                          > composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose
                          out, do
                          > some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text
                          file
                          > into some "layout program."
                          >
                          > What layout program would you recommend? I don't do heavy graphics
                          stuff and would want a fairly simple, and cheap one.
                          >
                          > Matt Clark
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >I was curious what you mean exactly by a "layout program", I've
                          tried using notetab pro for some word processing but could not find
                          some features. Such as double-spacing. I'm new to notetab, other than
                          writing simple code, I don't know a lot about its other uses.
                        • David Smart
                          ... There is a big difference between writing in a word-processing package and inputting text into a text editor. This is the spacing between paragraphs. With
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                            > It was probably just an oversight!

                            :-)

                            There is a big difference between writing in a word-processing package and
                            inputting text into a text editor. This is the spacing between paragraphs.

                            With a text editor, you end up putting in extra returns to provide
                            whitespace. With a word processor, you do not; instead, the paragraphs
                            (should) have default formatting that includes whitespace between them. As
                            such, it is a minor pain to shift information from TXT to the W/P (i.e. a
                            global change).

                            Similarly, if you have lists, bullets, etc (which I often do), you're far
                            better off simply putting the stuff directly into the W/P.

                            So ... no ... I don't agree that it should be included in any list of Word
                            alternatives. I use text editors for text files and word processors for
                            formatted text right from the beginning of the input.

                            > As the interface is less distracting than any word-processing package ...

                            Not sure where the distractions are. You still type and see it on the
                            screen. You still backspace (in my case, a lot) to get rid of typos. Etc,
                            etc. In fact the basic interface is fairly similar. It's just that the
                            word processor has more buttons because it can do more things. But you
                            don't need to press those buttons.

                            Regards, Dave S

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Dennis Hays" <dhays@...>
                            To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 5:27 AM
                            Subject: [NTB] NoteTab as a Writer's Environment


                            > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:29:35 -0500, "Matt Clark" <mattclark@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> Pardon me for butting in off topic, but did anyone see the article in
                            > last
                            >> Sunday's (Jan. 5) NY Times Magazine by Virginia Herffernan extolling
                            >> alternatives to Word? Although it wasn't mentioned, I would assume that
                            >> NoteTab would qualify as such, since it has not format and gives one a
                            >> perfectly full, blank screen to write on. NoteTab experts should read the
                            >> piece and give there thoughts on this list.
                            >>
                            >
                            > Just to amplify... I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                            > composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                            > some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                            > into some layout program.
                            >
                            > As the interface is less distracting than any word-processing package, I
                            > feel I can concentrate on the content and not on the mechanics of the
                            > application. So, Matt, I agree - it should have been mentioned in the NY
                            > Times magazine. It was probably just an oversight!
                            >
                            > --
                            > Best,
                            >
                            > Dennis
                            > --------------------
                            > Photo News Today
                            > www.photonewstoday.com
                            > Secrets of Digital Imaging
                            > www.imagingsecrets.com
                            > --------------------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
                            > The NoteTab Clips List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-clips/
                            > The NoteTab Off Topic List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-offtopic/
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Dennis Hays
                            Hello Matt, ... Well, that s a difficult one. I am using Adobe InDesign CS (version 3.0.1), which is probably overkill for you. I have been using it for years
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                              Hello Matt,

                              Wednesday, January 9, 2008, 2:00:18 PM, you wrote:

                              > Dennis Hays wrote:

                              > I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                              > composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                              > some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                              > into some "layout program."

                              > What layout program would you recommend? I don't do heavy graphics
                              > stuff and would want a fairly simple, and cheap one.

                              > Matt Clark

                              Well, that's a difficult one. I am using Adobe InDesign CS (version
                              3.0.1), which is probably overkill for you. I have been using it for
                              years and it sucks in the NoteTab Pro text files and spits out PDF.

                              Best,

                              Dennis



                              --
                              Dennis Hays
                              Managing Editor
                              Photo News Today
                              +1 518.477.7570
                              AIM: dennishays
                              -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
                              Sent on 1/9/2008 at 4:48 PM (-5 UCT)
                            • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
                              ... We should definitely go off topic with this and I ll copy that list. Please everyone help us in discussion over there (like I m the off topic police or
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                                Matt Clark wrote:
                                > Dennis Hays wrote:
                                >
                                > I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                                > composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose out, do
                                > some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                                > into some "layout program."
                                >
                                > What layout program would you recommend? I don't do heavy graphics stuff and would want a fairly simple, and cheap one.
                                >
                                > Matt Clark

                                We should definitely go off topic with this and I'll copy that list.

                                Please everyone help us in discussion over there (like I'm the off topic
                                police or something anyway ;-) ).

                                Anyway, word, wordperfect and open office all are pretty rich featured
                                for layout. One of them is free at http://openoffice.org

                                I have no specific experience in ebooks or publishing in this context.
                                I know that when I edit books for print the publisher requires us to use
                                word and the change tracking feature. That is actually a helpful thing.

                                On the other question: just open open office and then click on file,
                                open (be sure "all files" is the selected filtering with the drop down)
                                and open the file you wish. It will open in that program and then you
                                can add formatting, but when you are done, save it under a different
                                name with the proper extension.

                                Don
                              • Greg Chapman
                                Hi syntheticgin, ... Mistake! :-) Word Processing has two aspects. Text editing and Document Formatting. ... This is a formatting issue, therefore a text
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                                  Hi syntheticgin,

                                  On 09 Jan 08 20:54 "syntheticgin" <syntheticgin@...> said:
                                  > I've tried using notetab pro for some word processing

                                  Mistake! :-) Word Processing has two aspects. Text editing and
                                  Document Formatting.

                                  > but could not find some features. Such as double-spacing.

                                  This is a formatting issue, therefore a text editor, such as NoteTab,
                                  has no such facility.

                                  > I don't know a lot about its other uses.

                                  It will do just about any manipulation of text files that you can
                                  imagine. However, it has virtually no facilities at all for text
                                  presentation, so if you've turned to NoteTab for that, then you need
                                  to move on. It won't be for you.

                                  Greg
                                • syntheticgin
                                  ... NoteTab, ... need ... Thanks Greg, you answered one question I had, that being does notetab have the same format ability as a word processor. I was not
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 9, 2008
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                                    --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Greg Chapman <gregchapmanuk@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi syntheticgin,
                                    >
                                    > On 09 Jan 08 20:54 "syntheticgin" <syntheticgin@...> said:
                                    > > I've tried using notetab pro for some word processing
                                    >
                                    > Mistake! :-) Word Processing has two aspects. Text editing and
                                    > Document Formatting.
                                    >
                                    > > but could not find some features. Such as double-spacing.
                                    >
                                    > This is a formatting issue, therefore a text editor, such as
                                    NoteTab,
                                    > has no such facility.
                                    >
                                    > > I don't know a lot about its other uses.
                                    >
                                    > It will do just about any manipulation of text files that you can
                                    > imagine. However, it has virtually no facilities at all for text
                                    > presentation, so if you've turned to NoteTab for that, then you
                                    need
                                    > to move on. It won't be for you.
                                    >
                                    > Greg
                                    >
                                    Thanks Greg, you answered one question I had, that being does notetab
                                    have the same format ability as a word processor. I was not sure
                                    about this because it is a new product to me, and I have only used
                                    notepad in the past(and wysiwyg editors).
                                    As for openoffice question, It is just text files I was trying to use
                                    in notetab, a few paragraphs of formatted text. I think copy/paste
                                    will solve my problem here, like you suggested. I don't want to be
                                    too long-winded so I won't go into the details of my previous posts.
                                  • David Lettvin
                                    ... out, do ... To amplify still further ... I am a technical and creative writer. For many years I have used NoteTab for the development and writing of
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                      --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Hays <dhays@...> wrote:
                                      > Just to amplify... I use NoteTab Pro as my preferred environment while
                                      > composing my ebooks. It's far easier for me to just get the prose
                                      out, do
                                      > some grammatical editing, and then, when finished, import the text file
                                      > into some layout program.
                                      >
                                      > As the interface is less distracting than any word-processing package, I
                                      > feel I can concentrate on the content and not on the mechanics of the
                                      > application. So, Matt, I agree - it should have been mentioned in the NY
                                      > Times magazine. It was probably just an oversight!
                                      >

                                      To amplify still further ... I am a technical and creative writer. For
                                      many years I have used NoteTab for the development and writing of
                                      fiction, non-fiction, poetry, essays and blog entries.

                                      As a professional writer, I can attest to one simple fact ... content
                                      rules.

                                      I don't care how pretty the page is.

                                      NoteTab lets me work quickly and efficiently, providing all the
                                      minimal formatting I need to get the ideas out and onto paper or screen.

                                      I used to run a very effective technical writing department, and I
                                      have consulted on software documentation issues. The single biggest
                                      roadblock to efficient content development is the constant tweaking
                                      and agonizing over format that writers use to avoid real work.

                                      Using a text editor for development of written material is the best
                                      way to get the content completed in the shortest period.

                                      The idiotic thing is that most of the flailing around with templates
                                      is done when the content is still being modified, so most of the
                                      problems and exceptions that cause the grief and slowdowns may
                                      disappear by the time you finalize the manual.

                                      What's even more amusing is that formatting a document that has been
                                      written well in a text editor takes less time than all of the font
                                      fondling done in MSWord and FrameMaker.

                                      As you can probably tell, I could go on at great length about this,
                                      but I'll just make it simple.

                                      As a writer, your primary job is content. I would rather send out a
                                      complete and well-written text file in Courier, than a beautifully
                                      formatted incomplete document that is confused and poorly written.

                                      I LOVE NoteTab, and I recommend it to all the writers, pro or not,
                                      that I know.

                                      Doc
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