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Re: [NTB] "Allow Reordering" of Tabs - setting is not persistent

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  • prog@lomascentral.com
    Standard upgrade from 5.3, no changes to the setup. I did reinstall my OS recently. As memory serves I reinstalled the OS, reinstalled 4.95 (which was the
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 14, 2007
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      Standard upgrade from 5.3, no changes to the setup.

      I did reinstall my OS recently. As memory serves I reinstalled the OS,
      reinstalled 4.95 (which was the version I happened to have on disc) and
      upgraded from that to 5.3, then upgraded to 5,4 shortly afterwards.

      However I rebooted into the previous OS which had been upgraded each
      time an upgrade was available for the last 2 or 3 years.

      I don't recall if reordering tabs was enabled on install, it's one of
      those things I don't notice isn't active until I need to use it but I
      enabled and re-enabled 3 or 4 times closing and re-opening (and
      rebooting at one point) to check it.

      I don't have anything fancy installed, to be honest I hardly touch the
      features, it's the ability to load huge text files and edit them
      effortlessly that I use it for, I have a number of 20MB plus files I
      need to deal with on a regular basis.

      Tim

      bruce.somers@... wrote:
      > after tuttle.grey wrote:
      >>>
      >>> NoteTab Pro 5.4
      >>>
      >>> To reorder document tabs on the Tab Bar, one must right-click the Tab
      >>> Bar for the command "Allow Reordering". However, after exiting the next
      >>> time NoteTab is launched the setting has again reverted to the default
      >>> of off. Thus, if one wants to "Allow Reordering" of document tabs, one
      >>> must use that command in every session.
      >>>
      >
      > Tim (prog@...) wrote
      >
      >> It's persistent in mine.
      >>
      >> Tim
      >
      >
      > How interesting and helpful. Please tell us more.
      >
      > Bruce
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
      > The NoteTab Clips List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-clips/
      > The NoteTab Off Topic List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-offtopic/
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • buralex@gmail.com
      I d forgotten that default value of Allow Reordering is conditional on the value of Use Stacked tabs. Personally I wish the value set would stick regardless
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 14, 2007
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        I'd forgotten that default value of Allow Reordering is conditional on
        the value of Use Stacked tabs.

        Personally I wish the value set would stick regardless but vaguely
        remember a discussion long ago about why the non-stickiness of Allow
        dragging when Stacked tabs are on is a FEATURE not a BUG :-) . Maybe
        something about it being confusing if tabs are stacked and dragging
        takes place?

        I have stacked on because once in a while I open a whole bunch of files
        (or work on files that have very long names) and its essential then but
        9 times out of 10 the number of files I have open does NOT cause
        stacking and the only reason I ever want the drag option is so that when
        switching to second-window when debugging a clip I can get the clip on
        the right on and the test data file on the left.

        Glad this came up - I've turned off stacking. Hope I remember where to
        turn it back on from the next time I open 20 or thirty files at once!

        "ebbtidalflats" <ebbtidalflats@...> said on Sep 14, 2007 10:30
        -0400 (in part):
        > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
        >
        >> >
        >> > NoteTab Pro 5.4
        >> >
        >> > To reorder document tabs on the Tab Bar, one must right-click the Tab
        >> > Bar for the command "Allow Reordering". However, after exiting the next
        >>
        >
        > This is only required, if you use STCKED tabs. If you disable stacked
        > tabs, you no longer need to "enable" reordering. Just drage document
        > tabs to wherever you want them (though you may have to do this in
        > several steps, and scroll the tabs, if there are more than one screen
        > width).

        Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
        --



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Eric Fookes
        Hi Alec, ... That is correct. Many years ago, the option was retained across sessions. Unfortunately, users would forget about it and get completely confused
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 15, 2007
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          Hi Alec,

          > I'd forgotten that default value of Allow Reordering is conditional on
          > the value of Use Stacked tabs.
          >
          > Personally I wish the value set would stick regardless but vaguely
          > remember a discussion long ago about why the non-stickiness of Allow
          > dragging when Stacked tabs are on is a FEATURE not a BUG :-) . Maybe
          > something about it being confusing if tabs are stacked and dragging
          > takes place?

          That is correct. Many years ago, the option was retained across
          sessions. Unfortunately, users would forget about it and get completely
          confused and annoyed when their tabs lost their position when stacked.
          At the time, Jody had to deal with a lot of support mail on the subject.
          Since limiting the feature to a session, we stopped receiving those
          support mails, which was a good thing <g>.

          --
          Regards,

          Eric Fookes
          http://www.fookes.com/
        • tuttle.grey
          ... Tab ... next ... You re right, I just discovered that. It hadn t occurred to me that that was a variable affecting reordering, because I always use stacked
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 18, 2007
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            On Fri, September 14, 2007 10:30 am, ebbtidalflats wrote:
            > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> NoteTab Pro 5.4
            >>
            >> To reorder document tabs on the Tab Bar, one must right-click the
            Tab
            >> Bar for the command "Allow Reordering". However, after exiting the
            next
            >
            > This is only required, if you use STCKED tabs.

            You're right, I just discovered that. It hadn't occurred to me that
            that was a variable affecting reordering, because I always use
            stacked tabs.

            > If you insist on stacked tabs, try this in order:
            >
            > 1. UNstack the tabs,
            > 2. Rearrange
            > 3. REStack the tabs.
            >
            > Note, that you do not need to enable reordering this way.

            That would work, but it is even less convenient that making the
            reordering setting persistent. Your method requires more work than
            just manually selecting "Allow Reordering" in each session.


            Thanks.
            (from Yahoo site - mail reply not working)
          • tuttle.grey
            ... conditional on ... Allow ... Maybe ... completely ... stacked. ... subject. ... Thanks for the explanation. Would it be possible, in a future version, to
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 18, 2007
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              On Sat, September 15, 2007 12:04 pm, Eric Fookes wrote:

              >> I'd forgotten that default value of Allow Reordering is
              conditional on
              >> the value of Use Stacked tabs.
              >>
              >> Personally I wish the value set would stick regardless but vaguely
              >> remember a discussion long ago about why the non-stickiness of
              Allow
              >> dragging when Stacked tabs are on is a FEATURE not a BUG :-) .
              Maybe
              >> something about it being confusing if tabs are stacked and dragging
              >> takes place?
              >
              > That is correct. Many years ago, the option was retained across
              > sessions. Unfortunately, users would forget about it and get
              completely
              > confused and annoyed when their tabs lost their position when
              stacked.
              > At the time, Jody had to deal with a lot of support mail on the
              subject.
              > Since limiting the feature to a session, we stopped receiving those
              > support mails, which was a good thing <g>.

              Thanks for the explanation.

              Would it be possible, in a future version, to include an option
              (in "Options") to make the setting of Allow Reordering persistent?
              You could still leave the default as "No" (not persistent). That way
              only those users who explicitly chose the behaviour would have the
              value saved, which should prevent those needless support mails.

              Thanks.
              (from Yahoo site - mail reply not working)
            • ebbtidalflats
              ... Pardon me all to hell. I didn t mean to inconvenience you. Since you dind t explain a lot about reording I foolishly envisioned you reordering once, and
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 19, 2007
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                --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
                >
                > > If you insist on stacked tabs, try this in order:
                > >
                > > 1. UNstack the tabs,
                > > 2. Rearrange
                > > 3. REStack the tabs.
                > >
                > > Note, that you do not need to enable reordering this way.
                >
                > That would work, but it is even less convenient that making the
                > reordering setting persistent. Your method requires more work than
                > just manually selecting "Allow Reordering" in each session.


                Pardon me all to hell. I didn't mean to inconvenience you.
                Since you dind't explain a lot about reording I foolishly envisioned
                you reordering once, and then be satisfied with the result.

                Actually, if you want convenient, you should be looking in the clips
                group. What you want is well within the capability of a special clip.
                Perhaps there is sonmebodyy else who prefers to stack tabs and has run
                into your problem, and solved it.


                Eb
              • tuttle.grey
                ... clip. ... run ... One of the problems with on-line discussions is that the reader can t see the writer s body language, facial expressions or hear the tone
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 19, 2007
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                  On Wed, September 19, 2007 5:50 pm, ebbtidalflats wrote:
                  > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> > If you insist on stacked tabs, try this in order:
                  >> >
                  >> > 1. UNstack the tabs,
                  >> > 2. Rearrange
                  >> > 3. REStack the tabs.
                  >> >
                  >> > Note, that you do not need to enable reordering this way.
                  >>
                  >> That would work, but it is even less convenient that making the
                  >> reordering setting persistent. Your method requires more work than
                  >> just manually selecting "Allow Reordering" in each session.
                  >
                  >
                  > Pardon me all to hell. I didn't mean to inconvenience you.
                  > Since you dind't explain a lot about reording I foolishly envisioned
                  > you reordering once, and then be satisfied with the result.
                  >
                  > Actually, if you want convenient, you should be looking in the clips
                  > group. What you want is well within the capability of a special
                  clip.
                  > Perhaps there is sonmebodyy else who prefers to stack tabs and has
                  run
                  > into your problem, and solved it.


                  One of the problems with on-line discussions is that the reader can't
                  see the writer's body language, facial expressions or hear the tone
                  in his voice. I was not attempting to be rude to you.

                  I was not criticizing you. I was just responding to your suggestion,
                  objectively stating that it required more steps than the simple right-
                  click to the command "Allow Reordering".

                  Your suggestion about asking in the clips group is good. Maybe
                  someone has already created a clip for this. I'm hoping that the
                  NoteTab developers may, in a future version, create an option to
                  allow the default to be overridden so that "Allow Reordering" could
                  then be persistent for those who so choose.

                  Thanks for your responses and ideas.
                • ebbtidalflats
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                    --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Wed, September 19, 2007 5:50 pm, ebbtidalflats wrote:
                    > > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> > If you insist on stacked tabs, try this in order:
                    > >> >
                    > >> > 1. UNstack the tabs,
                    > >> > 2. Rearrange
                    > >> > 3. REStack the tabs.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Note, that you do not need to enable reordering this way.
                    > >>
                    > >> That would work, but it is even less convenient that making the
                    > >> reordering setting persistent. Your method requires more work than
                    > >> just manually selecting "Allow Reordering" in each session.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Pardon me all to hell. I didn't mean to inconvenience you.
                    > > Since you dind't explain a lot about reording I foolishly envisioned
                    > > you reordering once, and then be satisfied with the result.
                    > >
                    > > Actually, if you want convenient, you should be looking in the clips
                    > > group. What you want is well within the capability of a special
                    > clip.
                    > > Perhaps there is sonmebodyy else who prefers to stack tabs and has
                    > run
                    > > into your problem, and solved it.
                    >
                    >
                    > One of the problems with on-line discussions is that the reader can't
                    > see the writer's body language, facial expressions or hear the tone
                    > in his voice. I was not attempting to be rude to you.
                    >
                    > I was not criticizing you. I was just responding to your suggestion,
                    > objectively stating that it required more steps than the simple right-
                    > click to the command "Allow Reordering".
                    >
                    > Your suggestion about asking in the clips group is good. Maybe
                    > someone has already created a clip for this. I'm hoping that the
                    > NoteTab developers may, in a future version, create an option to
                    > allow the default to be overridden so that "Allow Reordering" could
                    > then be persistent for those who so choose.
                    >
                    > Thanks for your responses and ideas.
                    >
                  • ebbtidalflats
                    ... I did not take your comment as rude. However, the term inconvenient seem way out of proportion to the convenience of a single click to allow persistent
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                      --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:
                      > >> > If you insist on stacked tabs, try this in order:
                      > >> > 1. UNstack the tabs,



                      > see the writer's body language, facial expressions or hear the tone
                      > in his voice. I was not attempting to be rude to you.

                      I did not take your comment as rude.
                      However, the term "inconvenient" seem way out of proportion to the
                      convenience of a single click to allow persistent reordering, as
                      opposed to temporary reordering.

                      The reordering part is what _I_ would have deemed incinvenient.

                      > ... it required more steps than the simple right-
                      > click to the command "Allow Reordering".

                      Now you even call your NON-persistent single step
                      as more convenient than my persistent single step.



                      See, the THREE steps I provided included reordering in the middle,
                      a single step to ENABLE reordering (persistently) and LOCKING IN the
                      reorder.



                      Clearly I'm missing something, if this is still too inconenient.




                      Eb
                    • tuttle.grey
                      ... tone ... I guess I think the use of inconvenient is more civil than your Pardon me all to hell . I don t wish to start a war here, I thought it was just
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                        --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "ebbtidalflats" <ebbtidalflats@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@> wrote:
                        > > see the writer's body language, facial expressions or hear the
                        tone
                        > > in his voice. I was not attempting to be rude to you.
                        >
                        > I did not take your comment as rude.
                        > However, the term "inconvenient" seem way out of proportion to the
                        > convenience of a single click to allow persistent reordering, as
                        > opposed to temporary reordering.

                        I guess I think the use of "inconvenient" is more civil than
                        your "Pardon me all to hell". I don't wish to start a war here, I
                        thought it was just a discussion.

                        > The reordering part is what _I_ would have deemed incinvenient.
                        >
                        > > ... it required more steps than the simple right-
                        > > click to the command "Allow Reordering".
                        >
                        > Now you even call your NON-persistent single step
                        > as more convenient than my persistent single step.
                        >
                        > See, the THREE steps I provided included reordering in the middle,
                        > a single step to ENABLE reordering (persistently) and LOCKING IN the
                        > reorder.
                        >
                        > Clearly I'm missing something, if this is still too inconenient.

                        The reordering is not a one-time event. I reorder during most editing
                        sessions. With your process, I would need to execute those three
                        steps each time I want to reorder. It's simpler to do the single step
                        of "Allow Reordering".

                        In either case, the _result_ of the reordering or restacking is of
                        course persistent between sessions. That's where I may not have been
                        clear. Whatever sequence the tabs are in will be saved for the next
                        session. It's just the "Allow Reordering" state of checked or on that
                        is not persistent.

                        An addition to the user Options would easily take care of this, by
                        allowing override of the default behaviour.
                      • Eric Fookes
                        ... Actually, one very handy shortcut that hasn t been mentioned in this thread is a mouse double-click on a document tab. Doing so toggles the status of the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                          > Would it be possible, in a future version, to include an option
                          > (in "Options") to make the setting of Allow Reordering persistent?
                          > You could still leave the default as "No" (not persistent). That way
                          > only those users who explicitly chose the behaviour would have the
                          > value saved, which should prevent those needless support mails.

                          Actually, one very handy shortcut that hasn't been mentioned in this
                          thread is a mouse double-click on a document tab. Doing so toggles the
                          status of the "Allow Reordering" option. It takes just a fraction of a
                          second, and since you have to use the mouse anyway for the operation, it
                          is all very seamless.

                          --
                          Regards,

                          Eric Fookes
                          http://www.fookes.com/
                        • tuttle.grey
                          ... persistent? ... way ... the ... this ... the ... of a ... operation, it ... That s a good tip. That is certainly faster than right-clicking to reach the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                            --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, Eric Fookes <egroups@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Would it be possible, in a future version, to include an option
                            > > (in "Options") to make the setting of Allow Reordering
                            persistent?
                            > > You could still leave the default as "No" (not persistent). That
                            way
                            > > only those users who explicitly chose the behaviour would have
                            the
                            > > value saved, which should prevent those needless support mails.
                            >
                            > Actually, one very handy shortcut that hasn't been mentioned in
                            this
                            > thread is a mouse double-click on a document tab. Doing so toggles
                            the
                            > status of the "Allow Reordering" option. It takes just a fraction
                            of a
                            > second, and since you have to use the mouse anyway for the
                            operation, it
                            > is all very seamless.

                            That's a good tip. That is certainly faster than right-clicking to
                            reach the command. Until we have an option to make Allow Reordering
                            persistent, this mouse double-click is a good technique.

                            Thanks Eric!
                          • buralex@gmail.com
                            Eric Fookes said on Sep 21, 2007 11:41 -0400 (in ... Eric - very neat. I never would have thought to try double-clicking on tab. I see it
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 21, 2007
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                              Eric Fookes <egroups@...> said on Sep 21, 2007 11:41 -0400 (in
                              part):
                              >> Would it be possible, in a future version, to include an option
                              >> > (in "Options") to make the setting of Allow Reordering persistent?
                              >> > You could still leave the default as "No" (not persistent). That way
                              >> > only those users who explicitly chose the behaviour would have the
                              >> > value saved, which should prevent those needless support mails.
                              >>
                              >
                              > Actually, one very handy shortcut that hasn't been mentioned in this
                              > thread is a mouse double-click on a document tab. Doing so toggles the
                              > status of the "Allow Reordering" option. It takes just a fraction of a
                              > second, and since you have to use the mouse anyway for the operation, it
                              > is all very seamless.
                              Eric - very neat. I never would have thought to try double-clicking on
                              tab. I see it *IS* documented in "Tips and How to..."

                              > When you have several documents open, you can drag-and-drop page tabs
                              > to reorder them any way you like. If the tabs are stacked, you will
                              > first have to enable drag-and-drop by double clicking on the tab
                              > before moving it.
                              Could you perhaps add that to HELP-Keyboard Shortcuts for the next
                              release, maybe increasing the likelihood someone will find it :-)

                              Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
                              --



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • ebbtidalflats
                              ... In either case, the _result_ of the reordering or restacking is of course persistent between sessions. That s where I may not have been clear.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 23, 2007
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                                --- In notetab@yahoogroups.com, "tuttle.grey" <tuttle@...> wrote:

                                <quote>
                                In either case, the _result_ of the reordering or restacking is of
                                course persistent between sessions. That's where I may not have been
                                clear. Whatever sequence the tabs are in will be saved for the next
                                session. It's just the "Allow Reordering" state of checked or on that
                                is not persistent.</quote>


                                Ahhhh, that makes everything clear. I had already been primed to point
                                out, that the restacked order is persistent on my system.

                                Eb
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