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First Impressions

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  • Don Paul Beletsky
    Hi NoteTab Users & [hopefully] Fookes Software (Eric or Jody?) - I just downloaded for evaluation, NoteTab Pro 4.86c. I am, in general, quite impressed with
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 30, 2002
      Hi NoteTab Users & [hopefully] Fookes Software (Eric or Jody?) -

      I just downloaded for evaluation, NoteTab Pro 4.86c. I am, in general, quite impressed with it and I will probably wind up registering it. However, in my first few hours of using it, I have run across a few minor glitches.

      First, having tried each of the Clipbooks displayed at the bottom of the application, I was checking out the various menu entries. I was disconcerted to find that the cursor would occasionally disappear over the menus (although menu operation continued okay - it was just difficult to use with an invisible cursor, especially since the cursor stayed invisible even over the text windows). It was not serious, as the cursor would be restored as soon as it moved out of the application. It would then be fine when moved back into NoteTab. However, after this happened several times, I became curious as to why and tried to determine the circumstances that caused it. The status line that I was checking for menu entry descriptions provided the clue I needed. Every time the cursor disappeared, the status line seemed to say "Finished executing clip". At this point I remembered that I had not stopped the RemindMe Clipbook "applet" after trying it out. As I had not defined anything to be reminded or scheduled, the only indication of its activity was this status line message every 30 seconds. I think there is a small bug in the timer/cursor interactions there.

      Second, a very small glitch, was the misspelling (typo probably) of "wrapped" as "wraped" in the status bar description for "Hard Wrap" in the "Export..." dialog (I noticed it while trying out the menu entries, because I laughed at how it might be pronounced ;-) ).

      Third, as a suggestion, it is unconventional to have the "Printing Options..." in the View menu (which usually pertains to the on-screen display only). This dialog is usually accessed by a "Page Setup..." menu entry in the File menu (usually just above the "Print..." entry).

      Finally, in attempting to find where to send this note about the problems, I was disappointed to find that the help menu (or at least the "About" dialog) did not provide a link to your web site for support. The "About" dialog gives the address, but there is no way to copy it for pasting into a browser. Most modern applications provide a clickable link there, and (usually) a help menu entry for direct access to the web site (like your "Order NoteTab..." entry, only for support).

      I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support, but I suppose the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing. Do you have an archives for new users to find out what they've missed (and perhaps solve their own problem from reading about another user's experience, without causing the problem to be "re-solved")? This is where a forum is really useful, by providing a search function through previously posted topics. It really encourages me to register a piece of software when they have a forum set up for their users.

      Well, as I said, I am quite impressed with this program, and if it does not annoy me too much after a week or two of use, I will register it (the Pro version - I value spell checking :-) ). I have tried many text editors over the years, but have always discontinued using them after a short while and going back to the bare-bones Notepad, despite its lack of features. At least it doesn't annoy me with a lot of features that are hard to use and/or unreliable (i.e., crash the editor or Windows). I always crave the additional features though. The last text editor I bought was Codewright, but after going through several upgrades (versions 1 through 4), it finally got too expensive for my budget. Plus, it was a pain to have to compile my extensions into a DLL for it all the time. When I started using Visual Studio, its editor was good enough for me to abandon Codewright. Codewright was too bloated by then for simple text/html editing.

      Thank you,

      Don Paul Beletsky

      P.S.: I just found the Fookes software links at the bottom of the Utilities Clipbook. This helps (although it has no option to open in a new window, and I HATE when my currently opened windows are reused without my permission - I usually have a dozen or more browser windows open holding my spot in various researches), but the Help Menu is a better place for this. Plus, a link to the mailing list would help here.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jody
      Hi Don, ... Can you reproduce that at will. I can t make it do it here. ... The View menu is mostly for what you say as far as the looks go, but as you
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 30, 2002
        Hi Don,

        >First, having tried each of the Clipbooks displayed at the bottom
        >of the application, I was checking out the various menu entries.
        >I was disconcerted to find that the cursor would occasionally
        >disappear over the menus (although menu operation continued okay
        >- it was just difficult to use with an invisible cursor,
        >especially since the cursor stayed invisible even over the text
        >windows). It was not serious, as the cursor would be restored as
        >soon as it moved out of the application. It would then be fine
        >when moved back into NoteTab. However, after this happened
        >several times, I became curious as to why and tried to determine
        >the circumstances that caused it. The status line that I was
        >checking for menu entry descriptions provided the clue I needed.
        >Every time the cursor disappeared, the status line seemed to say
        >"Finished executing clip". At this point I remembered that I had
        >not stopped the RemindMe Clipbook "applet" after trying it out.
        >As I had not defined anything to be reminded or scheduled, the
        >only indication of its activity was this status line message
        >every 30 seconds. I think there is a small bug in the
        >timer/cursor interactions there.

        Can you reproduce that at will. I can't make it do it here.

        >Third, as a suggestion, it is unconventional to have the
        >"Printing Options..." in the View menu (which usually pertains to
        >the on-screen display only). This dialog is usually accessed by
        >a "Page Setup..." menu entry in the File menu (usually just above
        >the "Print..." entry).

        The View menu is mostly for what you say as far as the looks go,
        but as you probably figured out. There are three Options at the
        bottom: Printing Options..., Spell Checker Options, and Options.

        If you open the Printing Options from the View menu you will not
        find a print button, but a Save instead. It is used to change
        default settings for the File | Print... dialog. I can compare
        it to HP Printers. In one location I can setup my own defaults
        such as Best and High Glossy Photo. Although those settings will
        come up every time (or be used) I can change them for the session
        to whatever. Under the File menu you also will see Printer
        Setup... which is for what it says. ;) Page Setup is actually in
        Print...

        >Finally, in attempting to find where to send this note about the
        >problems, I was disappointed to find that the help menu (or at
        >least the "About" dialog) did not provide a link to your web site
        >for support.

        We use to have clickable links in About, but Eric took them out.
        Click on Help | Help Topics | General tab | Technical Support and
        Resources.

        >I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support,
        >but I suppose the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing.

        I much prefer discussion mailing lists over forums and newsgroups
        myself. ;)

        >Do you have an archives for new users to find out what they've
        >missed (and perhaps solve their own problem...

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/notetab and click on Messages. You
        may need to open an account or login.

        Nite...

        Happy NoteTab'n,
        Jody Adair

        The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
        http://www.notetab.net

        The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
        mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/notetab
      • hpaulissen
        Hi Don Paul, I m sure you will register once you have seen the capabilities of NoteTab... ... of wrapped ... the Export... The author, Eric Fookes, is
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
          Hi Don Paul,

          I'm sure you will register once you have seen the capabilities of
          NoteTab...

          > Second, a very small glitch, was the misspelling (typo probably)
          of "wrapped"
          > as "wraped" in the status bar description for "Hard Wrap" in
          the "Export..."

          The author, Eric Fookes, is currently working on version 5. We have
          no indication yet when this will be available, but I would not be
          surprised if you have to live with it another couple of months.

          > Finally, in attempting to find where to send this note about the
          problems, I
          > was disappointed to find that the help menu (or at least
          the "About" dialog)
          > did not provide a link to your web site for support.

          You can subscribe from the website
          (http://www.notetab.com/support.htm) as well.
          At the home site for The NoteTab Basic List you'll find some more
          links to subscribe to the different lists.

          > The "About" dialog gives
          > the address, but there is no way to copy it for pasting into a
          browser. Most
          > modern applications provide a clickable link there, and (usually) a
          help menu

          Yes, that's true, and I agree, but you only have to remember to type
          www.notetab.com in your browser.

          > I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support,
          but I suppose
          > the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing. Do you have
          an archives
          > for new users to find out what they've missed (and perhaps solve
          their own
          > problem from reading about another user's experience, without
          causing the
          > problem to be "re-solved")? This is where a forum is really useful,
          by
          > providing a search function through previously posted topics. It
          really
          > encourages me to register a piece of software when they have a
          forum set up for
          > their users.

          There are actually a number of lists you can subscribe to. The
          support you get there is good. You can search the archives for each
          individual list from the website. There are list members that may
          have personal archives that they could share with you; this question
          pops up from time to time.

          Lately I've been seeing more and more advertised pages though (when
          checking the list on the internet), telling "Yahoo! Groups is an
          advertising supported service. Continue to message ". You won't be
          bothered by these if you change the Delivery Options to email.

          > P.S.: I just found the Fookes software links at the bottom of the
          Utilities
          > Clipbook. This helps (although it has no option to open in a new
          window,

          You can easily change the behaviour of the clips if you know the
          cliplanguage; I too feel uncomfortable when programs try to outsmart
          me, but really, NoteTab normally puts you in control of everything.

          Hope this helps,

          Hugo
        • David Fagerstrom
          unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
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          • Julie G
            ... Two ways to avoid the ads if you don t want individual mails in your mailbox: 1) try the digest version of the list LISTNAME-digest@yahoogroups.com (where
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
              you wrote:

              >Lately I've been seeing more and more advertised pages though (when
              >checking the list on the internet), telling "Yahoo! Groups is an
              >advertising supported service. Continue to message ". You won't be
              >bothered by these if you change the Delivery Options to email.

              Two ways to avoid the ads if you don't want individual mails in your mailbox:

              1) try the digest version of the list
              LISTNAME-digest@yahoogroups.com

              (where LISTNAME is obviously the name of the specific mailing list)
              OR

              When you're logged in at
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LISTNAME/messages

              click on "Expand Messages" at the top of the message list. It'll list the
              text of several messages on the page at once, with an option at the bottom
              to click to view the next set of messages until you reach the end of
              current messages. If you read from the web regularly, click on the last
              message your browser doesn't have in its cache, click back on "message
              index" then on "expand messages" and it'll expand just the messages you
              want to read (time consuming with the pages loading and all, but hey it
              works!). This works with *any* message you want to start reading with in
              expanded mode.

              <whispering>
              They haven't managed to stuff the graphic ads in the expanded message list
              yet <G>.
              </whispering>
            • Julie G
              Hi, The archives for this list are apparently public archives meaning you can read them without having to
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                Hi,

                The archives for this list <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/notetab/messages>
                are apparently public archives meaning you can read them without having to
                create a Yahoo I.D., or logging in at the Yahoo site. The search
                capability is marginally adequate, IMO.

                If you decide you like the program, and would want to share your input for
                the author's consideration for the next release of the program, you may be
                interested in joining the "next release" list described @
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-nextrelease/. The archives for that list
                appear to be only available to list members so you would need to log in to
                the webpage with a Yahoo I.D.

                You ought to look for a browser that opens multiple browser windows within
                the program :-).

                Julie


                you wrote:

                >Hi NoteTab Users & [hopefully] Fookes Software (Eric or Jody?) -
                >
                >I just downloaded for evaluation, NoteTab Pro 4.86c. I am, in general,
                >quite impressed with it and I will probably wind up registering
                >it. However, in my first few hours of using it, I have run across a few
                >minor glitches.

                ~big snip~
              • Eric G.V. Fookes
                Hello Don Paul, ... Thanks for your comments and welcome to the list. Was it you that called me this morning? ... That s very odd. I can t reproduce this
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                  Hello Don Paul,

                  >I just downloaded for evaluation, NoteTab Pro 4.86c. I am, in general,
                  >quite impressed with it and I will probably wind up registering
                  >it. However, in my first few hours of using it, I have run across a few
                  >minor glitches.

                  Thanks for your comments and welcome to the list. Was it you that called me
                  this morning?

                  >First, having tried each of the Clipbooks displayed at the bottom of the
                  >application, I was checking out the various menu entries. I was
                  >disconcerted to find that the cursor would occasionally disappear over the
                  >menus (although menu operation continued okay - it was just difficult to
                  >use with an invisible cursor, especially since the cursor stayed invisible
                  >even over the text windows). It was not serious, as the cursor would be
                  >restored as soon as it moved out of the application. It would then be
                  >fine when moved back into NoteTab. However, after this happened several
                  >times, I became curious as to why and tried to determine the circumstances
                  >that caused it. The status line that I was checking for menu entry
                  >descriptions provided the clue I needed. Every time the cursor
                  >disappeared, the status line seemed to say "Finished executing clip". At
                  >this point I remembered that I had not stopped the RemindMe Clipbook
                  >"applet" after trying it out. As I had not defined anything to be
                  >reminded or scheduled, the only indication of its activity was this status
                  >line message every 30 seconds. I think there is a small bug in the
                  >timer/cursor interactions there.

                  That's very odd. I can't reproduce this problem. Could it be a bug in your
                  graphics driver?

                  >Second, a very small glitch, was the misspelling (typo probably) of
                  >"wrapped" as "wraped" in the status bar description for "Hard Wrap" in the
                  >"Export..." dialog (I noticed it while trying out the menu entries,
                  >because I laughed at how it might be pronounced ;-) ).

                  Oops <g>. I'll fix this in the next update. Thanks for pointing it out.

                  >Third, as a suggestion, it is unconventional to have the "Printing
                  >Options..." in the View menu (which usually pertains to the on-screen
                  >display only). This dialog is usually accessed by a "Page Setup..." menu
                  >entry in the File menu (usually just above the "Print..." entry).

                  I chose the View menu because that is where a lot of other programs also
                  place the Options command. I thought it made sense to put the printer
                  options under the same menu as the main program options. However, I will be
                  completely reworking the menu and dialog in version 5.0, so this
                  "annoyance" won't necessarily stay around for ever <g>.

                  >Finally, in attempting to find where to send this note about the problems,
                  >I was disappointed to find that the help menu (or at least the "About"
                  >dialog) did not provide a link to your web site for support. The "About"
                  >dialog gives the address, but there is no way to copy it for pasting into
                  >a browser. Most modern applications provide a clickable link there, and
                  >(usually) a help menu entry for direct access to the web site (like your
                  >"Order NoteTab..." entry, only for support).

                  I did have a more conventional About dialog some versions ago, but I
                  removed it to produce a smaller executable. At the time I was working hard
                  to keep the package size down to a single floppy disk. This no longer
                  holds, but since then the About box has been fairly low on my priorities list.

                  >I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support, but I
                  >suppose the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing. Do you have
                  >an archives for new users to find out what they've missed (and perhaps
                  >solve their own problem from reading about another user's experience,
                  >without causing the problem to be "re-solved")? This is where a forum is
                  >really useful, by providing a search function through previously posted
                  >topics. It really encourages me to register a piece of software when they
                  >have a forum set up for their users.

                  Although the Yahoo groups are not as good as eGroups used to be, they still
                  offer a lot more flexibility than BBS. But this really comes down to
                  personal preferences.

                  Thanks again for your comments.

                  --Eric Fookes





                  ..
                • Jody
                  Hi Julie G, ... I may have missed this being said. If you change your setting to No HTML or Text only, whatever they call it today, then you won t get
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                    Hi Julie G,

                    >> Lately I've been seeing more and more advertised pages though
                    >> (when checking the list on the internet), telling "Yahoo!
                    >> Groups is an advertising supported service. Continue to message
                    >> ". You won't be bothered by these if you change the Delivery
                    >> Options to email.

                    I may have missed this being said. If you change your setting to
                    No HTML or Text only, whatever they call it today, then you won't
                    get bombarded with the images. Unless you want to read the short
                    ad, don't and they won't bother you.

                    >Two ways to avoid the ads if you don't want individual mails in your mailbox:
                    >
                    >1) try the digest version of the list
                    >LISTNAME-digest@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >(where LISTNAME is obviously the name of the specific mailing list)
                    >OR
                    >
                    > When you're logged in at
                    >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LISTNAME/messages


                    Happy NoteTab'n,
                    Jody Adair

                    The NoteTabbers Assistant Page
                    http://www.notetab.net

                    The NoteTab Basic Discussion List
                    mailto:NoteTab-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    mailto:NoteTab-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/notetab
                  • Don Paul Beletsky
                    ... From: Eric G.V. Fookes To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [NTB] First Impressions
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Eric G.V. Fookes" <egroups@...>
                      To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:39 AM
                      Subject: Re: [NTB] First Impressions


                      > Hello Don Paul,
                      >
                      > >I just downloaded for evaluation, NoteTab Pro 4.86c...
                      >
                      > Thanks for your comments and welcome to the list. Was it you that called
                      me
                      > this morning?

                      Nope, not me.

                      > >First, having tried each of the Clipbooks displayed at the bottom of the
                      > >application, I was checking out the various menu entries. I was
                      > >disconcerted to find that the cursor would occasionally disappear over
                      the
                      > >menus (although menu operation continued okay - it was just difficult to
                      > >use with an invisible cursor, especially since the cursor stayed
                      invisible
                      > >even over the text windows). It was not serious, as the cursor would be
                      > >restored as soon as it moved out of the application. It would then be
                      > >fine when moved back into NoteTab. However, after this happened several
                      > >times, I became curious as to why and tried to determine the
                      circumstances
                      > >that caused it. The status line that I was checking for menu entry
                      > >descriptions provided the clue I needed. Every time the cursor
                      > >disappeared, the status line seemed to say "Finished executing clip". At
                      > >this point I remembered that I had not stopped the RemindMe Clipbook
                      > >"applet" after trying it out. As I had not defined anything to be
                      > >reminded or scheduled, the only indication of its activity was this
                      status
                      > >line message every 30 seconds. I think there is a small bug in the
                      > >timer/cursor interactions there.
                      >
                      > That's very odd. I can't reproduce this problem. Could it be a bug in your
                      > graphics driver?

                      It is reproducible on my system: Windows 2000 (SP2) on an Abit KT7A-RAID
                      motherboard system, with a Matrox G-450 DH graphics card. I did not get a
                      match on "menus cursor disappears" in any of Matrox's tech support forums.
                      However, I am downloading their latest drivers (v572, Oct-2001 -- currently
                      have v552, Apr-2001 installed), and I will let you know if that resolves the
                      problem when I get a chance to install them and reboot (I've got too many
                      things open at the moment). Even if it is a driver problem, it must be in
                      interaction with your timer processing, as this is the only application that
                      displays this problem. Some further information:

                      1) The problem does NOT appear in other applications menus when the NoteTab
                      RemindMe "applet" is active. In testing this, I noticed that the RemindMe
                      status flashed very briefly in the NoteTab status line while I had a menu
                      open here in Outlook Express' compose window.

                      2) The problem does NOT appear when the cursor is in the main window of
                      NoteTab, even though there is a status line display (Ready [... bytes ...]).
                      The status line does flicker when the RemindMe timer kicks, but the cursor
                      remains visible.

                      3) The problem occurs whether the current menu entry is active or inactive,
                      and whether or not it has a status line description.

                      4) The problem only occurs when the cursor is over a drop-down menu entry
                      when the timer kicks (i.e., it does NOT appear if the cursor is pointing to
                      the main menu bar itself [File|Edit|...|Help], whether or not a drop-down is
                      currently displayed).

                      5) The problem does not clear up until the drop-down menu is closed, whether
                      or not the cursor goes outside of the NoteTab application or not, or even if
                      the cursor moves to another menu in NoteTab causing it to open instead.
                      When the cursor is outside of the NoteTab window, it is visible, but it
                      disappears, anywhere over the NoteTab window, until the drop-down menu is
                      closed (by clicking outside of the menus, either in or out of NoteTab, or by
                      switching applications via the Alt-Tab key).

                      I hope this further information helps. I am a software developer, so I know
                      how important good diagnostic information is. ;-)


                      > >Third, as a suggestion, it is unconventional to have the "Printing
                      > >Options..." in the View menu (which usually pertains to the on-screen
                      > >display only). This dialog is usually accessed by a "Page Setup..." menu
                      > >entry in the File menu (usually just above the "Print..." entry).
                      >
                      > I chose the View menu because that is where a lot of other programs also
                      > place the Options command. I thought it made sense to put the printer
                      > options under the same menu as the main program options. However, I will
                      be
                      > completely reworking the menu and dialog in version 5.0, so this
                      > "annoyance" won't necessarily stay around for ever <g>.

                      I can see the logic which led to that choice. However, consistency is a
                      major plus in Windows applications, leading to much time saving for the
                      experienced user. Even if the logic suggests that a better place may be
                      found for a menu entry, having it in the same place as many other
                      applications makes it a no-brainer for an experienced user to find (likewise
                      for short-cut keys). When you create a new menu entry that does not appear
                      in other applications, then you are free to place it where you wish.
                      However, once a menu entry has appeared in a few applications, it achieves a
                      de facto "standard" and placing it somewhere else just causes confusion for
                      users. The annoyance may be minor, but annoyances can accumulate (even one
                      annoyance that occurs repeatedly) and lead to abandonment of the annoying
                      software (as I have done with many other editors before).

                      > >Finally, in attempting to find where to send this note about the
                      problems,
                      > >I was disappointed to find that the help menu (or at least the "About"
                      > >dialog) did not provide a link to your web site for support. The "About"
                      > >dialog gives the address, but there is no way to copy it for pasting into
                      > >a browser. Most modern applications provide a clickable link there, and
                      > >(usually) a help menu entry for direct access to the web site (like your
                      > >"Order NoteTab..." entry, only for support).
                      >
                      > I did have a more conventional About dialog some versions ago, but I
                      > removed it to produce a smaller executable. At the time I was working hard
                      > to keep the package size down to a single floppy disk. This no longer
                      > holds, but since then the About box has been fairly low on my priorities
                      list.

                      You DO have your website address and e-mail address on the About dialog,
                      it's just not clickable (or even copyable) as it is in many other
                      applications. The harder it is to find a way to contact support, the more
                      annoying it is (see comments about annoyances above :-) ). The order of
                      easiness (for me at least ;-) ) is as follows:

                      1) A direct link off the help menu (like just about any Microsoft product
                      [except Notepad] provides - and no, I am not a Microsoft advocate, but they
                      do manage to get a few things right ;-) ). This is how most of the
                      applications in my start menu do it.

                      2) A clickable "hyperlink" in the about dialog (like CuteFTP, ZipMagic [has
                      a button], and a few other minor applications do - I couldn't find too many
                      like this, because most of them use option 1).

                      3) A clickable "hyperlink" in the help pages (you have the address there,
                      but it is not clickable - fortunately it IS copyable).

                      4) A link in the Start Menu group for the application (this is nice as an
                      extra, but is inconvenient when you're looking for help from within the
                      application).

                      5) Making the user type in an address which you provide in an uncopyable
                      field. This is only marginally better than forcing the user to look up the
                      address on the web himself. :-) (although either are better than no
                      support at all!)

                      > >I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support, but I
                      > >suppose the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing. Do you
                      have
                      > >an archives for new users to find out what they've missed (and perhaps
                      > >solve their own problem from reading about another user's experience,
                      > >without causing the problem to be "re-solved")? This is where a forum is
                      > >really useful, by providing a search function through previously posted
                      > >topics. It really encourages me to register a piece of software when
                      they
                      > >have a forum set up for their users.
                      >
                      > Although the Yahoo groups are not as good as eGroups used to be, they
                      still
                      > offer a lot more flexibility than BBS. But this really comes down to
                      > personal preferences.

                      Yes, I suppose preferences are the key. It is handy to have the text of the
                      latest post right there when you get the e-mail notifying you (as opposed to
                      a notification from a forum, that makes you click a link to open the forum),
                      but I prefer the context of an entire thread, visible at once, in a forum.
                      Plus the Yahoo! Groups have way too much advertising (especially that
                      annoying interruption ad when trying to view a message). Sticking to e-mail
                      only eliminates most of the advertising, but loses the thread context.
                      Using Outlook expresses "Group by Conversation helps a little (although it
                      is not very good at grouping - many messages in a thread do not get grouped
                      with the others in the thread), but the messages are still in separate
                      windows, causing a lot of extra clicking (I suffer from RSS, so less
                      clicking is much better for me :-) ).

                      > Thanks again for your comments.

                      No problem. I hope you find my comments useful. Software improves much
                      faster with good feedback. Thank you for all your work on what looks like a
                      great product.
                    • Julie G
                      ... I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random fashion when you re reading mail from the web. If you expand the message list, you
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                        Jody wrote:

                        >I may have missed this being said. If you change your setting to
                        >No HTML or Text only, whatever they call it today, then you won't
                        >get bombarded with the images. Unless you want to read the short
                        >ad, don't and they won't bother you.

                        I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random
                        fashion when you're reading mail from the web. If you expand the message
                        list, you see no ads :-).

                        Julie
                      • Brian Mailman
                        ... The freebie version of adsubstract http://www.adsubtract.com takes care of those. The paid version is supposed to take care of the popups. B/
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                          Julie G wrote:

                          > I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random
                          > fashion when you're reading mail from the web. If you expand the message
                          > list, you see no ads :-).

                          The freebie version of adsubstract http://www.adsubtract.com takes care
                          of those. The paid version is supposed to take care of the popups.

                          B/
                        • hpaulissen
                          Thank you Julie, ... list the I use both: webbased and digest... It is more cumbersome to expland the messages there, but you have a poiunt. Occasionaly I do
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                            Thank you Julie,

                            > Two ways to avoid the ads if you don't want individual mails in
                            your mailbox:
                            >
                            > 1) try the digest version of the list
                            > LISTNAME-digest@y...
                            >
                            > (where LISTNAME is obviously the name of the specific mailing list)
                            > OR
                            >
                            > When you're logged in at
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LISTNAME/messages
                            >
                            > click on "Expand Messages" at the top of the message list. It'll
                            list the

                            I use both: webbased and digest... It is more cumbersome to expland
                            the messages there, but you have a poiunt. Occasionaly I do it, if I
                            think of it.

                            I receive the digest-version of the lists, but find these are always
                            lagging behind. I do not want to have every single mail sent to me.

                            Hugo
                          • Don Paul Beletsky
                            ... From: Don Paul Beletsky To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [NTB] First
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Don Paul Beletsky" <Don_Paul@...>
                              To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:01 AM
                              Subject: Re: [NTB] First Impressions

                              ...

                              > > >I was really hoping that you would have a forum/BBS for support, but I
                              > > >suppose the Yahoo! group mailing list is better than nothing. Do you
                              > have
                              > > >an archives for new users to find out what they've missed (and perhaps
                              > > >solve their own problem from reading about another user's experience,
                              > > >without causing the problem to be "re-solved")? This is where a forum
                              is
                              > > >really useful, by providing a search function through previously posted
                              > > >topics. It really encourages me to register a piece of software when
                              > they
                              > > >have a forum set up for their users.
                              > >
                              > > Although the Yahoo groups are not as good as eGroups used to be, they
                              > still
                              > > offer a lot more flexibility than BBS. But this really comes down to
                              > > personal preferences.
                              >
                              > Yes, I suppose preferences are the key. It is handy to have the text of
                              the
                              > latest post right there when you get the e-mail notifying you (as opposed
                              to
                              > a notification from a forum, that makes you click a link to open the
                              forum),
                              > but I prefer the context of an entire thread, visible at once, in a forum.
                              > Plus the Yahoo! Groups have way too much advertising (especially that
                              > annoying interruption ad when trying to view a message). Sticking to
                              e-mail
                              > only eliminates most of the advertising, but loses the thread context.
                              > Using Outlook expresses "Group by Conversation helps a little (although it
                              > is not very good at grouping - many messages in a thread do not get
                              grouped
                              > with the others in the thread), but the messages are still in separate
                              > windows, causing a lot of extra clicking (I suffer from RSS, so less
                              > clicking is much better for me :-) ).
                              >

                              One more comment on this. If you do consider a forum, you might check out
                              the ezBoard forums (http://www.ezboard.com/). They are free and they seem
                              to work very well for another group of shareware programs I use by
                              FNProgramvare (BookCAT, CATVids & CATraxx). Check out their forum at
                              http://pub88.ezboard.com/bfnprogramvare. I think he (Fredrik Nordbakke)
                              must be paying for a premium forum service (CSC Gold), because there is no
                              advertising at all on his forum. However, even in the free boards I've
                              checked out, the advertising seems to be limited to a small banner at the
                              top and a list of sponsor links at the bottom ... oops, and a nasty pop-up.
                              However, the advertising can be eliminated by the user (CSC user - $7/6
                              mos.), or the board admin (CSC Gold option - $30/6 mos.), then it's less
                              obnoxious than Yahoo! Groups, plus the threading is way, way better.
                            • Don Passenger
                              I like yahoo and find it results in quick responses and good archiving. I doubt if I would visit a bbs as often (many go only if they are experiencing
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                I like yahoo and find it results in quick responses and good archiving.
                                I doubt if I would visit a bbs as often (many go only if they are
                                experiencing trouble).
                                This way I keep my finger on the pulse and respond when I know something,
                                learn often when I don't.


                                And lets all remember to ship as much of the former message as we can when
                                replying to cut down on the noise level ...

                                --
                                Don Passenger
                                mailto:dpasseng@...
                                home: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng
                                work: http://www.grcourt.org
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Don Paul Beletsky" <Don_Paul@...>
                                To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:46 AM
                                Subject: Re: [NTB] First Impressions

                                snip .... bbs .... snip
                              • silvermoonwoman2001
                                ... KT7A-RAID ... get a ... forums. I have a different older Matrox video card, which is not DH, and I m in Windows 98, but I think this info probably applies.
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                  --- In notetab@y..., "Don Paul Beletsky" <Don_Paul@b...> wrote:
                                  >It is reproducible on my system: Windows 2000 (SP2) on an Abit
                                  KT7A-RAID
                                  >motherboard system, with a Matrox G-450 DH graphics card. I did not
                                  get a
                                  >match on "menus cursor disappears" in any of Matrox's tech support
                                  forums.

                                  I have a different older Matrox video card, which is not DH, and I'm
                                  in Windows 98, but I think this info probably applies. There is a
                                  setting in the Options for Matrox Powerdesk for a using a hardware
                                  cursor to draw a color mouse pointer. The context help for this
                                  setting says (in part):

                                  "Enable this check box to make sure a color Windows mouse pointer can
                                  be drawn by your Matrox graphics hardware. If a mouse pointer is
                                  drawn by hardware its less likely to disappear when its over an area
                                  that's being redrawn quickly."

                                  It goes on to say that with dual head and in Windows 2000 you may
                                  have to use a software cursor, in which case you should choose one
                                  through Windows that only uses 16 colors.

                                  I can see these settings when choose Display
                                  Properties|Settings|Advanced|Options. I use both the hardware cursor
                                  setting and an enlarged cursor setting found there. Again, mine is
                                  not DH.

                                  Hope this helps you.

                                  Regards,
                                  Sheri
                                • chalz@earthlink.net
                                  (I might be a little late on this) **** Hi Julie G, ... I may have missed this being said. If you change your setting to No HTML or Text only, whatever they
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                    (I might be a little late on this)

                                    ****
                                    Hi Julie G,

                                    >> Lately I've been seeing more and more advertised pages though
                                    >> (when checking the list on the internet), telling "Yahoo!
                                    >> Groups is an advertising supported service. Continue to message
                                    >> ". You won't be bothered by these if you change the Delivery
                                    >> Options to email.

                                    I may have missed this being said. If you change your setting to
                                    No HTML or Text only, whatever they call it today, then you won't
                                    get bombarded with the images. Unless you want to read the short
                                    ad, don't and they won't bother you.
                                    **
                                    What I think is quite funny is to get an email from a Yahoo group with "non-text portions have been removed" sort of thing - basically the list server software has said, "What? Binary graphics? Pah!" and stripped the ads from plain-text email. Can anyone else tell that Yahoo hasn't written their own listserv software? (Thankfully.)
                                    Course, I'm waiting for the more-traveled lists to be 'pay-per-send' services now *grumble grumble* ;)

                                    --Charles

                                    --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                                    http://mail2web.com/ .
                                  • Don Paul Beletsky
                                    ... From: silvermoonwoman2001 To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [NTB] First
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "silvermoonwoman2001" <silvermoonwoman@...>
                                      To: <notetab@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:14 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [NTB] First Impressions


                                      > --- In notetab@y..., "Don Paul Beletsky" <Don_Paul@b...> wrote:
                                      > >It is reproducible on my system: Windows 2000 (SP2) on an Abit
                                      > KT7A-RAID
                                      > >motherboard system, with a Matrox G-450 DH graphics card. I did not
                                      > get a
                                      > >match on "menus cursor disappears" in any of Matrox's tech support
                                      > forums.
                                      >
                                      > I have a different older Matrox video card, which is not DH, and I'm
                                      > in Windows 98, but I think this info probably applies. There is a
                                      > setting in the Options for Matrox Powerdesk for a using a hardware
                                      > cursor to draw a color mouse pointer. The context help for this
                                      > setting says (in part):
                                      >
                                      > "Enable this check box to make sure a color Windows mouse pointer can
                                      > be drawn by your Matrox graphics hardware. If a mouse pointer is
                                      > drawn by hardware its less likely to disappear when its over an area
                                      > that's being redrawn quickly."
                                      >
                                      > It goes on to say that with dual head and in Windows 2000 you may
                                      > have to use a software cursor, in which case you should choose one
                                      > through Windows that only uses 16 colors.
                                      >
                                      > I can see these settings when choose Display
                                      > Properties|Settings|Advanced|Options. I use both the hardware cursor
                                      > setting and an enlarged cursor setting found there. Again, mine is
                                      > not DH.
                                      >
                                      > Hope this helps you.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Sheri

                                      Thanks, Sheri. However, I checked my Matrox settings and I AM using the
                                      hardware cursor (although not an enlarged one). I tried changing to a
                                      different pointer (cursor), but the same problem occurred.

                                      I think it may be significant that the "Finished executing Clip" status
                                      message stays in the status line when this problem occurs (until the menu is
                                      closed), but otherwise only flashes briefly (i.e., when a NoteTab menu is
                                      not open).
                                    • silvermoonwoman2001
                                      ... using the ... to a ... status ... the menu is ... menu is ... Ok guess I missed that part. I now see that that it happens to me too. Still might be a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                        --- In notetab@y..., "Don Paul Beletsky" <Don_Paul@b...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Thanks, Sheri. However, I checked my Matrox settings and I AM
                                        using the
                                        > hardware cursor (although not an enlarged one). I tried changing
                                        to a
                                        > different pointer (cursor), but the same problem occurred.
                                        >
                                        > I think it may be significant that the "Finished executing Clip"
                                        status
                                        > message stays in the status line when this problem occurs (until
                                        the menu is
                                        > closed), but otherwise only flashes briefly (i.e., when a NoteTab
                                        menu is
                                        > not open).

                                        Ok guess I missed that part. I now see that that it happens to me
                                        too. Still might be a Matrox issue unless it happens to others as
                                        well.

                                        Sheri
                                      • chalz@earthlink.net
                                        There s an article in the monologue about stopping some pop-up/under ads. Might be interested: http://www.lockergnome.com/issues/daily/20020114.html The
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                          There's an article in the 'monologue' about stopping some pop-up/under ads. Might be interested:
                                          http://www.lockergnome.com/issues/daily/20020114.html
                                          The target link to look for is:
                                          http://technoerotica.net/mylog/optouts.html
                                          I receive about 2 or 3 Lockergnome newsletters every couple days. I generally find them sprinkled with ooey-gooey goodness. I highly recommend them. (PS, I've submitted NTP to be evaluated for a future newsletter, in case Eric/Jody/etc hadn't heard of them. Hope this wasn't too .. pretentious? of me..)

                                          --Charles

                                          ****
                                          > I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random
                                          > fashion when you're reading mail from the web. If you expand the message
                                          > list, you see no ads :-).

                                          The freebie version of adsubstract http://www.adsubtract.com takes care
                                          of those. The paid version is supposed to take care of the popups.

                                          B/


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                                        • Julie G
                                          ... Have you ever seen Chris Pirillo on TechTV? He looks just like his caricature ! Julie
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                            you wrote:

                                            > I receive about 2 or 3 Lockergnome newsletters every couple days. I
                                            > generally find them sprinkled with ooey-gooey goodness. I highly
                                            > recommend them. (PS, I've submitted NTP to be evaluated for a future
                                            > newsletter, in case Eric/Jody/etc hadn't heard of them. Hope this wasn't
                                            > too .. pretentious? of me..)

                                            Have you ever seen Chris Pirillo on TechTV? He looks just like his
                                            caricature <sp>!

                                            Julie
                                          • chalz@earthlink.net
                                            Yeah, started watching once I found out it existed. Talk about funny - almost embarassing ;) Heh. Seriously, not trying to go too far off topic, the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                              Yeah, started watching once I found out it existed. Talk about funny - almost embarassing ;) Heh. Seriously, not trying to go too far off topic, the newsletters tend to be pretty good, and once you get past the silliness, there's good stuff on the show too. It's not in standard cable, for those with Time-Warner - it's in the >100 channel range.

                                              --Charles

                                              ****
                                              > I receive about 2 or 3 Lockergnome newsletters every couple days. I
                                              > generally find them sprinkled with ooey-gooey goodness. I highly
                                              > recommend them. (PS, I've submitted NTP to be evaluated for a future
                                              > newsletter, in case Eric/Jody/etc hadn't heard of them. Hope this wasn't
                                              > too .. pretentious? of me..)

                                              Have you ever seen Chris Pirillo on TechTV? He looks just like his
                                              caricature <sp>!

                                              Julie




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                                            • Eric G.V. Fookes
                                              Hello Charles, ... It s not at all pretentious. Thank you very much for doing so! I ve met Chris Pirillo a couple of years ago, and even that does not give me
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                Hello Charles,

                                                > I receive about 2 or 3 Lockergnome newsletters every couple days. I
                                                > generally find them sprinkled with ooey-gooey goodness. I highly
                                                > recommend them. (PS, I've submitted NTP to be evaluated for a future
                                                > newsletter, in case Eric/Jody/etc hadn't heard of them. Hope this wasn't
                                                > too .. pretentious? of me..)

                                                It's not at all pretentious. Thank you very much for doing so! I've met
                                                Chris Pirillo a couple of years ago, and even that does not give me enough
                                                leverage to get him to mention my software <g>. I know he prefers to
                                                recommend freeware and so I tried several times to convince him to mention
                                                Easy Thumbnails. But to no avail so far. I think Chris is more likely
                                                convinced to talk about a program by his readers than their developers.


                                                Regards,
                                                Eric G.V. Fookes
                                                Author of NoteTab, Mailbag Assistant, and Album Express
                                                http://www.fookes.com/ and http://www.notetab.com/







                                                ...
                                              • Keith Russell
                                                Hello, Brian. On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:23:38 -0800 GMT your local time, which was Thursday, January 31, 2002, 9:23 AM -0700 GMT here, ... Are you sure? I m using
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                  Hello, Brian.

                                                  On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:23:38 -0800 GMT your local time, which was
                                                  Thursday, January 31, 2002, 9:23 AM -0700 GMT here,
                                                  you wrote:

                                                  > Julie G wrote:

                                                  >> I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random
                                                  >> fashion when you're reading mail from the web. If you expand the message
                                                  >> list, you see no ads :-).

                                                  > The freebie version of adsubstract http://www.adsubtract.com takes care
                                                  > of those.

                                                  Are you sure? I'm using AdSubtract Pro, and it does not. Actually,
                                                  the ads themselves don't bother me nearly as much as their
                                                  displaying on a separate page, requiring me to click on a link to
                                                  view the message. That is EXTREMELY intrusive.

                                                  > The paid version is supposed to take care of the popups.

                                                  It does, and does it very well.

                                                  --
                                                  Keith Russell
                                                  mailto:wkrussell@...
                                                  ...Can't learn to do something well? Learn to enjoy doing it badly!
                                                • Keith Russell
                                                  Hello, Don. On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:56:31 -0500 GMT your local time, which was Thursday, January 31, 2002, 9:56 AM -0700 GMT here, ... I doubt this is what you
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                    Hello, Don.

                                                    On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:56:31 -0500 GMT your local time, which was
                                                    Thursday, January 31, 2002, 9:56 AM -0700 GMT here,
                                                    you wrote:

                                                    > And lets all remember to ship as much of the former message as we can when
                                                    ^^^^
                                                    > replying to cut down on the noise level ...

                                                    I doubt this is what you really meant to say 8-).

                                                    --
                                                    Keith Russell
                                                    mailto:wkrussell@...
                                                    ...If at first we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
                                                  • Brian Mailman
                                                    ... Hi. ... Pretty sure. I own a list on yahoogroups myself and received complaints about the ads on the web when those who are on no mail/web only go to
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                      Keith Russell wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hello, Brian.

                                                      Hi.

                                                      > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:23:38 -0800 GMT your local time, which was
                                                      > Thursday, January 31, 2002, 9:23 AM -0700 GMT here,
                                                      > you wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > Julie G wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >> I was referring to the annoying ads that come up in a seemingly random
                                                      > >> fashion when you're reading mail from the web. If you expand the message
                                                      > >> list, you see no ads :-).

                                                      > > The freebie version of adsubstract http://www.adsubtract.com takes care
                                                      > > of those.

                                                      > Are you sure?

                                                      Pretty sure. I own a list on yahoogroups myself and received complaints
                                                      about the ads on the web when those who are on "no mail/web only" go to
                                                      read. I suggested this, (AdSubtract SE) and was told that worked well.
                                                      I created a new membership for myself to take a look, and yes, there was
                                                      still a box where the ad should have been but no
                                                      blinking/winking/gyrating/pulsing ad.

                                                      > I'm using AdSubtract Pro, and it does not.

                                                      Huh. I thought the Pro Version was the same, except for the elimination
                                                      of popups. Have you seen the comparison chart on their pages?

                                                      > Actually, the ads themselves don't bother me nearly as much as their
                                                      > displaying on a separate page, requiring me to click on a link to
                                                      > view the message. That is EXTREMELY intrusive.

                                                      Rather. Imagine what it's like trying to manage a list with up to 70
                                                      messages a day--every. operation. gets. halted. to. close. the. ad.
                                                      window.

                                                      > > The paid version is supposed to take care of the popups.

                                                      > It does, and does it very well.

                                                      Good to know. I haven't upgraded yet (waiting for the new machine) but
                                                      have no qualms now. Perhaps this is/has gone offtopic now and should
                                                      either go to that list or private email?

                                                      B/
                                                    • Jody
                                                      Hello Everyone, I m sorry to get to this so late, but I ve been out. Sorry for all the troubleshooting on the Basic list. The NoteTab Basic list is for
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                        Hello Everyone,

                                                        I'm sorry to get to this so late, but I've been out. Sorry for
                                                        all the troubleshooting on the Basic list. The NoteTab Basic
                                                        list is for discussion of the very basics of NoteTab. Things
                                                        like Clip code discussion, RegExp, Perl, HTML should be posted to
                                                        the appropriate list. Both those can have discussion of the same
                                                        above, but each list is geared for Clips or HTM.

                                                        Could you all please take this thread over to the NoteTab
                                                        NextRelease list (or the NoteTab Off Topic list). The Next
                                                        Release list is for suggestions, beta testing, trouble shooting
                                                        *NoteTab* problems or figuring out if it is a NoteTab problem.
                                                        The Off Topic list is mainly used for discussion of computers and
                                                        peripheral hardware and also software.

                                                        Just click and send an empty post to either or both the lists. TIA!!!

                                                        The NoteTab Next Release List
                                                        mailto:ntb-NextRelease-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        The NoteTab Off-Topic List
                                                        mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                        To Subscribe to or UnSubscribe from any of the following
                                                        Mailing Lists send an empty post to the appropriate list(s)
                                                        using the eMail address to the right of the list name:

                                                        Subscribe
                                                        The NoteTab Basic List................. NoteTab-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        The NoteTab Clips List................. ntb-Clips-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        The NoteTab ClipsClass List............ ntb-ClipClass-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                        Happy Tab'n, Clip'n, Edit'n, Test'n, &...
                                                        Jody Adair
                                                        Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23
                                                        http://www.notetab.net
                                                      • Jody
                                                        Hi Don and Others, Please take this thread over to the Off Topic list or private eMail. Plenty has been said about the list options and we need to bring the
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Jan 31, 2002
                                                          Hi Don and Others,

                                                          Please take this thread over to the Off Topic list or private
                                                          eMail. Plenty has been said about the list options and we need
                                                          to bring the focus back to NoteTab Basics.

                                                          >One more comment on this. If you do consider a forum,

                                                          I have no plans to use a forum for the different Fookes Software
                                                          that I moderate. (I just started to get into one of my long,this
                                                          is what happened and this is... posts and found I was only making
                                                          matters worse. I'll comment if anybody takes it over to the Off
                                                          Topic list.;) Please see my signature line to subscribe to it.
                                                          TIA

                                                          Happy Topics,
                                                          Jody

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