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Problem: insertion point out-of-sync with cursor position - WinME, 4.83/4.86

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  • bjlawrence@hotmail.com
    I ve been using 4.83 (and prior versions) on Win95 for a long time, and I love it. I got a new WinME system and copied all of my Win95 files to it. A very
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2001
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      I've been using 4.83 (and prior versions) on Win95 for a long time,
      and I love it.

      I got a new WinME system and copied all of my Win95 files to it.

      A very annoying then appeared.

      After I have been editing an existing file for a while [typing,
      inserting, moving the cursor with the arrow keys, deleting) the
      position at which characters are inserted or deleted suddenly shifts
      from the location indicated by the I-beam [insertion cursor] to a
      point several lines down in the file.

      I updated to 4.86; the problem has persisted.

      The screen will look like this

      This is a block of existing text with the ins|tion point in the
      middle of the word "insertion" but the letters I have just finished
      typing ["er" in the case"] will appear in the miderdle of a line
      farther down the screen [embedded in the word "middle" in this
      case, shifting that line to the right as those letters are typed].

      As it happens, the files I'm working on at the moment are moderately
      large [slightly over 65kb] but I don't know whether that is a factor.

      Is there something that I can check or information that I can provide
      which will lead to a cure for this problem?
    • Jim Hall
      Brad, ... FWIW I haven t had this problem with NTP but I do have it occasionally with the text editor in Eudora. When it occurs, I can move the cursor with the
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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        Brad,

        At 07:05 PM 12/2/01 +0000, you wrote:
        >I've been using 4.83 (and prior versions) on Win95 for a long time,
        >and I love it.
        >
        >I got a new WinME system and copied all of my Win95 files to it.
        >
        >A very annoying then appeared.
        >
        >After I have been editing an existing file for a while [typing,
        >inserting, moving the cursor with the arrow keys, deleting) the
        >position at which characters are inserted or deleted suddenly shifts
        >from the location indicated by the I-beam [insertion cursor] to a
        >point several lines down in the file.
        >
        >I updated to 4.86; the problem has persisted.

        FWIW

        I haven't had this problem with NTP but I do have it occasionally with the
        text editor in Eudora.

        When it occurs, I can move the cursor with the arrow keys till I get to a
        point where I can get out of it and reboot.

        I would suggest that the problem is more than likely one of low system
        resources.

        WinME uses more than Win95 and it is possible that you are just a little
        overloaded especially with the larger files.

        One other thing I have noticed is that it usually occurs after I have been
        working on a file for a fairly long time.

        In any case, rebooting always solves the problem.

        In fact, I would say that rebooting solves about 95% of all problems
        thought to be a NoteTab problem.

        Just a thought.


        Regards,

        Jim
      • Jody
        Hi bj, ... You might try reinstalling riched32.dll if you are running NoteTab Standard/Light. I ve seem similar things in my mail program, but that is after I
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 3, 2001
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          Hi bj,

          >I've been using 4.83 (and prior versions) on Win95 for a long time,
          >and I love it.
          >
          >I got a new WinME system and copied all of my Win95 files to it.

          You might try reinstalling riched32.dll if you are running
          NoteTab Standard/Light. I've seem similar things in my mail
          program, but that is after I have been running for awhile and my
          machine as a whole is lagging very much like about a half second
          response time for a character. If you have a new keyboard, try
          changing that out and also check for utilities or applications
          running in the background causing a conflict. (I don't suppose
          you are using the Auto-Replace feature when the problem happens,
          but thought I would mention to turn it off or change Libraries.)

          >After I have been editing an existing file for a while [typing,
          >inserting, moving the cursor with the arrow keys, deleting) the
          >position at which characters are inserted or deleted suddenly
          >shifts from the location indicated by the I-beam [insertion
          >cursor] to a point several lines down in the file.


          Happy Topics,
          Jody

          The NoteTab Off-Topic List
          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        • Eric G.V. Fookes
          ... Unfortunately, one of the big differences between Win95 and WinME is that the latter OS has much less available system resources (this has nothing to do
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 5, 2001
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            At 19:05 02/12/01 +0000, bjlawrence@... wrote:
            >I've been using 4.83 (and prior versions) on Win95 for a long time,
            >and I love it.
            >
            >I got a new WinME system and copied all of my Win95 files to it.
            >
            >A very annoying then appeared.

            Unfortunately, one of the big differences between Win95 and WinME is that
            the latter OS has much less available system resources (this has nothing to
            do with how much RAM you have in your computer). It's very easy to run out
            of system resources under WinME.

            >After I have been editing an existing file for a while [typing,
            >inserting, moving the cursor with the arrow keys, deleting) the
            >position at which characters are inserted or deleted suddenly shifts
            >from the location indicated by the I-beam [insertion cursor] to a
            >point several lines down in the file.
            >
            >I updated to 4.86; the problem has persisted.

            Jody mentioned in his post that he suspected a low resource situation and I
            think he is right. Is it NoteTab Light or Std that you are using?


            Regards,
            Eric G.V. Fookes
            Author of NoteTab, Mailbag Assistant, and Album Express
            http://www.fookes.com/ and http://www.notetab.com/







            ...
          • bjlawrence2001
            ... I run a resource meter at all times [a habit I carried over from Win95] and, curiously, I find that available resources are consitently higher under WinME
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 5, 2001
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              --- In notetab@y..., "Eric G.V. Fookes" <egroups@f...> wrote:

              > Unfortunately, one of the big differences between Win95 and WinME is
              > that the latter OS has much less available system resources (this
              > has nothing to do with how much RAM you have in your computer). It's
              > very easy to run out of system resources under WinME.

              I run a resource meter at all times [a habit I carried over from
              Win95] and, curiously, I find that available resources are
              consitently higher under WinME than Win95.

              In addition, it was not unusual for Win95 to freeze or crash when
              resources fell below 50%. WinMe contines to run [1] even down to 10%
              (and takes longer to get there, as resources seem to be better
              managed). At 10% a Windows dialog box appears, often allowing one to
              reboot gracefully.

              > Jody mentioned in his post that he suspected a low resource
              > situation and I think he is right.

              I think you both may be right. I will test to see whether I can find
              a correlation between the problem and resource levels and report the
              results here.

              I am puzzled, though, that NoteTab doesn't detect and report or avoid
              low resource conditions.

              > Is it NoteTab Light or Std that you are using?

              4.86 Light [previously 4.83 light].

              BTW: while I have you here, I wonder if I might make a suggestion.
              While I was learning to use the program, I clicked on a menu option
              labeled something like 'commercial features' thinking that it would
              display a list of what those features were. Instead, it immediately
              began the 30-day countdown [which then expired unused]. I wonder
              whether it would be possible to change that menu selection so that it
              brings up a dialog box offering a choice between starting the
              countdown or merely seeing the related help topic.

              And let me re-emphasize something I said in my first post in this
              thread: I love the program. I am delighted to recommend it as often
              as possible, everywhere I can.

              Note 1: in my experience WinMe has one behavior that I have never
              observed with any other Window version. As available resources
              decline, at some point it is no longer possible to completely close a
              folder opened on the desktop [a 'ghost' box for each such folder
              remains on the taskbar]. I have learned to reboot at that point,
              because once that symptom develops, it is only a matter of time
              before it becomes impossible to exit running applications. At that
              stage CTL+ALT+DEL may even stop working and/or an attempt to reboot
              may result in a blue screen which can be cleared only by turning the
              power off and on. This situation is extremely irritating as it seems
              clearly to be a WinME problem, it is obviously cumulative, and it has
              persisted despite my having applied all updates from Microsoft.
            • Eric G.V. Fookes
              ... I m surprised to see this. One of the most persistent complaints I ve heard about WinME is users running out of system resources. I don t have WinME, so I
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 5, 2001
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                At 03:30 06/12/01 +0000, bjlawrence@... wrote:
                > > Unfortunately, one of the big differences between Win95 and WinME is
                > > that the latter OS has much less available system resources (this
                > > has nothing to do with how much RAM you have in your computer). It's
                > > very easy to run out of system resources under WinME.
                >
                >I run a resource meter at all times [a habit I carried over from
                >Win95] and, curiously, I find that available resources are
                >consitently higher under WinME than Win95.

                I'm surprised to see this. One of the most persistent complaints I've heard
                about WinME is users running out of system resources. I don't have WinME,
                so I can't verify this personally. However, I did notice that I was running
                out of system resources much quicker under Win98 than I ever did under
                Win95. My main work machine was under Win95 until this summer when I was
                forced to "upgrade" to use a USB device, so my OS switch was quite recent.

                >In addition, it was not unusual for Win95 to freeze or crash when
                >resources fell below 50%. WinMe contines to run [1] even down to 10%
                >(and takes longer to get there, as resources seem to be better
                >managed). At 10% a Windows dialog box appears, often allowing one to
                >reboot gracefully.

                What type of resources are you talking about here -- system, user, or GDI?

                >I am puzzled, though, that NoteTab doesn't detect and report or avoid
                >low resource conditions.

                I don't think I have ever encountered a program that does that. Have you?

                > > Is it NoteTab Light or Std that you are using?
                >
                >4.86 Light [previously 4.83 light].

                I forgot to mention that the cursor positioning and text display in NoteTab
                Std/Light is entirely controlled by the rich-edit control, which is a
                Windows component. So it's actually Windows misbehaving under these low
                resource conditions <g>.

                >BTW: while I have you here, I wonder if I might make a suggestion.
                >While I was learning to use the program, I clicked on a menu option
                >labeled something like 'commercial features' thinking that it would
                >display a list of what those features were. Instead, it immediately
                >began the 30-day countdown [which then expired unused]. I wonder
                >whether it would be possible to change that menu selection so that it
                >brings up a dialog box offering a choice between starting the
                >countdown or merely seeing the related help topic.

                I suppose I could, though it's not high on my list of priorities. I will
                probably be using a different approach in NoteTab 5.0.

                >And let me re-emphasize something I said in my first post in this
                >thread: I love the program. I am delighted to recommend it as often
                >as possible, everywhere I can.

                Great! And thanks for recommending NoteTab so enthusiastically.


                Regards,
                Eric G.V. Fookes
                Author of NoteTab, Mailbag Assistant, and Album Express
                http://www.fookes.com/ and http://www.notetab.com/







                ...
              • bjlawrence2001
                ... or GDI? The problem just occurred at User 62% GDI 83%. ( System is not a separate category; it is simply the lesser of the two preceding values.) Neither
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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                  --- In notetab@y..., "Eric G.V. Fookes" <egroups@f...> wrote:
                  > At 03:30 06/12/01 +0000, bjlawrence@h... wrote:

                  > What type of resources are you talking about here -- system, user,
                  or GDI?

                  The problem just occurred at User 62% GDI 83%.
                  ('System' is not a separate category; it is simply the lesser of the
                  two preceding values.)
                  Neither of those numbers is even remotely close to what I would
                  consider 'low'.

                  > >NoteTab doesn't detect and report or
                  > >avoid low resource conditions.

                  > I don't think I have ever encountered a program that does that.

                  Well, every resource meter does that, in a way. If the problem were
                  occurring at a really 'low' value (say, User 15%) I might have
                  suggested having NoteTab change the cursor or cause something to
                  blink at 20% or so. Any sort of defensive code that activates at or
                  above 62% would IMO be worthless.

                  > the cursor positioning and text display in NoteTab
                  > Std/Light is entirely controlled by the rich-edit control

                  > it's actually Windows misbehaving under these low
                  > resource conditions <g>.

                  Given the resource values I'm seeing, I think I'm going to have to
                  look elsewhere for the cause. In the current incident, I had just
                  inserted about 200 characters at the beginning of a ~97K file and had
                  done a little 'normal' editing. AFAICT the problem began when I
                  pressed and held the backspace key to delete about 8 consecutive
                  characters.

                  > >a dialog box offering a choice between starting the
                  > >countdown or merely seeing the related help topic.

                  > I suppose I could, though it's not high on my list of priorities.

                  I understand. I mentioned it only because that was the only aspect
                  of NoteTab that ever struck me as less than brilliantly designed.
                • bjlawrence2001
                  ... I m going to try different versions of the dll to see whether the symptom changes or goes away. I ll also be trying various files sizes and editing steps.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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                    --- In notetab@y..., Jody <av1611@e...> wrote:

                    > You might try reinstalling riched32.dll if you are running
                    > NoteTab Standard/Light.

                    I'm going to try different versions of the dll to see whether the
                    symptom changes or goes away.

                    I'll also be trying various files sizes and editing steps.
                  • Jody
                    Hi bj, OK, lets take this thread over to the Next-Release list, off-topic, or write me at: jody@notetab.com TIA ... Happy Test n, Jody Adair Subscribe,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 6, 2001
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                      Hi bj,

                      OK, lets take this thread over to the Next-Release list, off-topic,
                      or write me at: jody@... TIA

                      > > You might try reinstalling riched32.dll if you are running
                      > > NoteTab Standard/Light.
                      >
                      >I'm going to try different versions of the dll to see whether the
                      >symptom changes or goes away.
                      >
                      >I'll also be trying various files sizes and editing steps.


                      Happy Test'n,
                      Jody Adair

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                    • bjlawrence2001
                      ... I don t yet have a perfect/complete answer, but I do have some potentially interesting observations. With the three-library set shipped with WinME ... the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 8, 2001
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                        --- In notetab@y..., "Eric G.V. Fookes" <egroups@f...> wrote:

                        > the cursor positioning and text display in NoteTab
                        > Std/Light is entirely controlled by the rich-edit control

                        I don't yet have a perfect/complete answer, but I do have some
                        potentially interesting observations.

                        With the three-library set shipped with WinME
                        | :\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\
                        | riched.dll Thu Jun 8 2000 5:00:00p A.... 240,944
                        | riched20.dll Thu Jun 8 2000 5:00:00p A.... 421,888
                        | riched32.dll Thu Aug 10 2000 12:00:00p A...R 3,856
                        the problem may occur at any resource level, even on a freshly booted
                        system.

                        With the two-library set on my old Win95 system
                        | :\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\
                        | riched20.dll Fri Jan 10 1997 2:15:26a A.... 294,672
                        | riched32.dll Mon Jan 13 1997 12:00:00a A.... 174,352
                        I never see the problem.
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