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Re: [norse_course] Re: hi there!!!

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  • Justin Farwell
    my bad with the typos! (which is a critical issue when dealing with language!). i wrote the replies quickly (and obviously didnt use a character set).
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 6, 2008
      my bad with the typos! (which is a critical issue when dealing with language!). i wrote the replies quickly (and obviously didnt use a character set). undeniable arguments for Norse; I guess I just also (as you said) find both languages worthwhile and both literatures to have their charms, so if one eventually learns both, I could imagine one doing better to start with OE rather than ON. But any route is possible!

      llama_nom <600cell@...> wrote:
      --- In norse_course@ yahoogroups. com, Justin Farwell <chelagil3@. ..> wrote:
      >
      >
      > OE 'theoden' 'prince' ON 'thjothinn' 'prince'

      It's 'þjóðann' in Old Norse [
      http://lexicon. ff.cuni.cz/ png/oi_cleasbyvi gfusson/b0739. png ].

      > the grammar of OE is a bit simpler, but the vocabulary is very
      similar to Old Norse.

      True, although, personally I find that it can sometimes actually be
      easier to remember a paradigm where most of the forms are clearly
      differentiated:

      Old Norse:

      Nominative: sonr . synir
      Accusative: son . sonu
      Genitive..: sonar . sona
      Dative:...: syni . sonum

      Old English:

      Nominative: sunu . suna
      Accusative: sunu . suna
      Genitive..: suna . suna
      Dative....: suna . sunum

      And, of course, if your main interest is learning Old Norse, you'll
      get there quicker by starting to learn Old Norse straight away! With
      Old Norse, you have the advantage that there is more variety of prose
      texts, whereas some of the most interesting Old English literature is
      poetry. With Old Norse, you have the advantage that a large number of
      texts are available online with standardised spelling (either the
      normalised Old Norse spelling stystem used by Old Norse textbooks, or
      in Modern Icelandic spelling), whereas Old English texts are usually
      presented in the chaotic spelling of the manuscripts. Still, that's
      not much of a difficulty in the long run.

      > There's alot more learning material out there for OE than ON, and
      alot of the OE textbooks are easier to use than the ON; ON textbooks
      are rather old-fashioned and usually written by old German
      philologists before World War 2.

      Besides the modern online courses and "A New Introduction to Old
      Norse" (1999) that I mentioned, there's a fairly recent Spanish
      textbook that you might be interested in: María Pilar Fernández
      Álvarez (1999) "Antiguo islandés. Historia y lengua".

      Sorry, Justin--I'm just in a Devil's Advocate mood today ;-) But I
      wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from learning Old English too.
      They're both great languages!

      P.S.

      > > > Nu eow is gerymed; gað ricene to us, guman to guþe;
      > > god ana wat hwa þære wælstowe wealdan note.
      > > > (Now the way is clear for you; O warriors, hasten to the battle;
      > > God alone knows how things will turn out)

      I think that last word should be 'mote', shouldn't it?




      Nu eow is gerymed;    gað ricene to us,    guman to guþe;    god ana wat    hwa þære wælstowe    wealdan note.
      (Now the way is clear for you; O warriors, hasten to the battle; God alone knows how things will turn out)


      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

    • llama_nom
      ... language!). i wrote the replies quickly (and obviously didnt use a character set). Don t worry about that: I make mistakes all the time. I have a memory of
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 7, 2008
        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Justin Farwell <chelagil3@...> wrote:
        >
        > my bad with the typos! (which is a critical issue when dealing with
        language!). i wrote the replies quickly (and obviously didnt use a
        character set).

        Don't worry about that: I make mistakes all the time. I have a memory
        of seeing a quote somewhere attributed to one of the Indian
        scriptures, although unfortunuately I don't have a reference for it:
        "I made my first mistake the day I was born and have been following
        the same path to wisdom ever since."

        > undeniable arguments for Norse; I guess I just also (as you said)
        find both languages worthwhile and both literatures to have their
        charms, so if one eventually learns both, I could imagine one doing
        better to start with OE rather than ON. But any route is possible!

        Oh, another thing I just thought of: with Old Norse, you have the
        advantage that the language is still used, in one sense, in the form
        of Modern Icelandic, whereas English has undergone much more profound
        changes since the 11th century. So you can often rely on the instincts
        of Icelandic speakers about their own language, in a way that you
        can't rely on untrained speakers of Modern English to have much of an
        insight into Old English grammar. It also mean that you can make use
        of the many resources available to students of Modern Icelandic. Often
        googling for examples of Modern Icelandic usage can clear up some
        mystery about the medieval language, where examples of a particular
        idiom or grammatical construction may happen to be rare.

        LN
      • jay_py012
        guess i ll folow your advice. i ll try the Old Norse for beginners lessons and then i ll let you know something.
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 7, 2008
          guess i'll folow your advice. i'll try the Old Norse for beginners
          lessons and then i'll let you know something.


          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Justin Farwell <chelagil3@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > OE 'theoden' 'prince' ON 'thjothinn' 'prince'
          >
          > It's 'þjóðann' in Old Norse [
          > http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_cleasbyvigfusson/b0739.png ].
          >
          > > the grammar of OE is a bit simpler, but the vocabulary is very
          > similar to Old Norse.
          >
          > True, although, personally I find that it can sometimes actually be
          > easier to remember a paradigm where most of the forms are clearly
          > differentiated:
          >
          > Old Norse:
          >
          > Nominative: sonr . synir
          > Accusative: son . sonu
          > Genitive..: sonar . sona
          > Dative:...: syni . sonum
          >
          > Old English:
          >
          > Nominative: sunu . suna
          > Accusative: sunu . suna
          > Genitive..: suna . suna
          > Dative....: suna . sunum
          >
          > And, of course, if your main interest is learning Old Norse, you'll
          > get there quicker by starting to learn Old Norse straight away! With
          > Old Norse, you have the advantage that there is more variety of prose
          > texts, whereas some of the most interesting Old English literature is
          > poetry. With Old Norse, you have the advantage that a large number of
          > texts are available online with standardised spelling (either the
          > normalised Old Norse spelling stystem used by Old Norse textbooks, or
          > in Modern Icelandic spelling), whereas Old English texts are usually
          > presented in the chaotic spelling of the manuscripts. Still, that's
          > not much of a difficulty in the long run.
          >
          > > There's alot more learning material out there for OE than ON, and
          > alot of the OE textbooks are easier to use than the ON; ON textbooks
          > are rather old-fashioned and usually written by old German
          > philologists before World War 2.
          >
          > Besides the modern online courses and "A New Introduction to Old
          > Norse" (1999) that I mentioned, there's a fairly recent Spanish
          > textbook that you might be interested in: María Pilar Fernández
          > Álvarez (1999) "Antiguo islandés. Historia y lengua".
          >
          > Sorry, Justin--I'm just in a Devil's Advocate mood today ;-) But I
          > wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from learning Old English too.
          > They're both great languages!
          >
          > P.S.
          >
          > > > > Nu eow is gerymed; gað ricene to us, guman to guþe;
          > > > god ana wat hwa þære wælstowe wealdan note.
          > > > > (Now the way is clear for you; O warriors, hasten to the battle;
          > > > God alone knows how things will turn out)
          >
          > I think that last word should be 'mote', shouldn't it?
          >
        • Lee
          jay_py012 this is to you... So where are you going to begin? Are you going to begin with old english? Or norse course online.. good luck to you.. it s nice to
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 8, 2008
            jay_py012
            this is to you...
            So where are you going to begin?
            Are you going to begin with old english?
            Or norse course online..
            good luck to you.. it's nice to hear someone else beginning.

            thanks
            wildhare



            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "jay_py012" <jay_py012@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > maybe i'll do like you said: learn old english. now that i think
            about
            > it, it may be a good starter!!! thanks for the advice!!! and thank
            > you, N thomsen, for the pdf version of "Zoëga Old Icelandic Dict.".
            > i'll make good use of it in further studies.
            >
            >
            >
          • jay_py012
            i m going to try old norse.
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 8, 2008
              i'm going to try old norse.


              --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Lee" <wildhare13@...> wrote:
              >
              > jay_py012
              > this is to you...
              > So where are you going to begin?
              > Are you going to begin with old english?
              > Or norse course online..
              > good luck to you.. it's nice to hear someone else beginning.
              >
              > thanks
              > wildhare
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "jay_py012" <jay_py012@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > maybe i'll do like you said: learn old english. now that i think
              > about
              > > it, it may be a good starter!!! thanks for the advice!!! and thank
              > > you, N thomsen, for the pdf version of "Zoëga Old Icelandic Dict.".
              > > i'll make good use of it in further studies.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
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