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  • Óskar Guðlaugsson
    Heil öll, Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON material? I ve heard lots of it before, and I have the general impression of it (of
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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      Heil öll,

      Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
      material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
      impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my memory
      refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed to
      find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with the
      dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I admit) Is
      there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
      Cleasby-Vigfússon thing? You would do great aid to the course if you'd
      help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
      either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the information for
      something which can mean alot for the course :)

      Thanks in advance,
      Óskar :)
    • Craig Davis
      Almost everything I ve found has been on the net. Of course, as a computer geek it was natural to do most of my looking there. Most online resources that I
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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        Almost everything I've found has been on the net. Of course, as a computer
        geek it was natural to do most of my looking there. Most online resources
        that I found prior to this course are the same ones listed in the course
        bookmarks. The only real book I've found locally is Gordon's "An
        Introduction to Old Norse" which I actually found in a Border's bookstore (a
        large chain for those unfamiliar) of all places. You guys are my biggest
        source :-)

        -Craig

        >
        > Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
        > material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
        > impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my memory
        > refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed to
        > find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with the
        > dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I admit) Is
        > there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
        > Cleasby-Vigfússon thing? You would do great aid to the course if you'd
        > help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
        > either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the information for
        > something which can mean alot for the course :)
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        > Óskar :)
      • yasin@freeway.net
        ... computer ... resources ... course ... bookstore (a ... biggest ... memory ... to ... the ... admit) Is ... if you d ... information for ... Greetings,
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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          --- In norse_course@y..., "Craig Davis" <craigd@m...> wrote:
          > Almost everything I've found has been on the net. Of course, as a
          computer
          > geek it was natural to do most of my looking there. Most online
          resources
          > that I found prior to this course are the same ones listed in the
          course
          > bookmarks. The only real book I've found locally is Gordon's "An
          > Introduction to Old Norse" which I actually found in a Border's
          bookstore (a
          > large chain for those unfamiliar) of all places. You guys are my
          biggest
          > source :-)
          >
          > -Craig
          >
          > >
          > > Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
          > > material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
          > > impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my
          memory
          > > refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed
          to
          > > find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with
          the
          > > dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I
          admit) Is
          > > there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
          > > Cleasby-Vigfússon thing? You would do great aid to the course
          if
          you'd
          > > help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
          > > either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the
          information for
          > > something which can mean alot for the course :)
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance,
          > > Óskar :)

          Greetings, Oskar!

          I have just heard of your lessons today and your post was the first
          I've read. However, I may have some things of interest:

          Clarke, D. E. Martin, "The Havamal--with selections from other poems
          of the Edda, illustrating the wisdom of the North in heathen times",
          Cambridge University Press, 1923.

          This is pretty well described in the subtitle, it is a total of 124
          pages, with the first 43 being an introduction in English. The main
          body is a page of Old Icelandic, with a facing page of English
          translation. The copy I have includes a previous owner's hand-
          written literal translation of the same text. I was fortunate enough
          to discover it at a used book store. I imagine it's long out of
          print.

          Gordon, E.V., "An Introduction to Old Norse", 2nd edition revised by
          A.R. Taylor, Oxford University Press, 1957.

          Probably the standard text in Old Norse, in stock at most Border's
          book stores (perhaps the largest chain of book stores in the U.S.),
          hence available everywhere in the U.S. in paperback.

          Poole, R.G., "Vikings Poems on War and Peace: A Study in Skaldic
          Narrative", University of Toronto Press, 1991. ISBN 0-8020-5867-1
          hardcover, 0-8020-6789-1 paperback.

          This is still in print, and contains both O.N. and English
          translations of various poems including Fridgerdarflokkr,
          Lidsmannaflokkr, and Darradarljod.


          Sturluson, Snorri, "Edda-Hattatal", Edited by Anthony Faulkes, Oxford
          University Press, 1991. ISBN 0-19-811238-6

          This is the Old Norse poem--no translations, but notes and
          introduction in English. Still in print and available at university
          bookstores.

          Tegner, Esaias, "Frithiof's Saga", Svenska Amerikanarens Forlag,
          Chicago, 1910.

          Another find from a used book store. I've never really gotten into
          it--it may not be written in O.N. but perhaps modern Swedish. It's
          my understanding that it's actually a modern work in the style of an
          Icelandic Saga.

          Zoega, Geir T., "A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic" Oxford
          University Press, 1910. ISBN 0 19 863108 1

          This was found at a bookstore on the University of Chicago campus.
          My copy is from the 1990 reprint. Is this the same dictionary you
          referred to?

          My experience is that about ten years ago, I started working my way
          through Gordon (with almost no assistance), had some moderate
          success, but haven't gotten back to it. As I have virtually no
          background in languages, I'm looking forward to your tutelage!


          Best wishes,
          Bjorn

          Sorry, I don't know how to do O.N. punctuation on the computer (yet).
        • yasin@freeway.net
          ... computer ... resources ... course ... bookstore (a ... biggest ... memory ... to ... the ... admit) Is ... if you d ... information for ... Greetings,
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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            --- In norse_course@y..., "Craig Davis" <craigd@m...> wrote:
            > Almost everything I've found has been on the net. Of course, as a
            computer
            > geek it was natural to do most of my looking there. Most online
            resources
            > that I found prior to this course are the same ones listed in the
            course
            > bookmarks. The only real book I've found locally is Gordon's "An
            > Introduction to Old Norse" which I actually found in a Border's
            bookstore (a
            > large chain for those unfamiliar) of all places. You guys are my
            biggest
            > source :-)
            >
            > -Craig
            >
            > >
            > > Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
            > > material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
            > > impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my
            memory
            > > refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed
            to
            > > find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with
            the
            > > dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I
            admit) Is
            > > there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
            > > Cleasby-Vigfússon thing? You would do great aid to the course
            if
            you'd
            > > help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
            > > either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the
            information for
            > > something which can mean alot for the course :)
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance,
            > > Óskar :)

            Greetings, Oskar!

            I have just heard of your lessons today and your post was the first
            I've read. However, I may have some things of interest:

            Clarke, D. E. Martin, "The Havamal--with selections from other poems
            of the Edda, illustrating the wisdom of the North in heathen times",
            Cambridge University Press, 1923.

            This is pretty well described in the subtitle, it is a total of 124
            pages, with the first 43 being an introduction in English. The main
            body is a page of Old Icelandic, with a facing page of English
            translation. The copy I have includes a previous owner's hand-
            written literal translation of the same text. I was fortunate enough
            to discover it at a used book store. I imagine it's long out of
            print.

            Gordon, E.V., "An Introduction to Old Norse", 2nd edition revised by
            A.R. Taylor, Oxford University Press, 1957.

            Probably the standard text in Old Norse, in stock at most Border's
            book stores (perhaps the largest chain of book stores in the U.S.),
            hence available everywhere in the U.S. in paperback.

            Poole, R.G., "Vikings Poems on War and Peace: A Study in Skaldic
            Narrative", University of Toronto Press, 1991. ISBN 0-8020-5867-1
            hardcover, 0-8020-6789-1 paperback.

            This is still in print, and contains both O.N. and English
            translations of various poems including Fridgerdarflokkr,
            Lidsmannaflokkr, and Darradarljod.


            Sturluson, Snorri, "Edda-Hattatal", Edited by Anthony Faulkes, Oxford
            University Press, 1991. ISBN 0-19-811238-6

            This is the Old Norse poem--no translations, but notes and
            introduction in English. Still in print and available at university
            bookstores.

            Tegner, Esaias, "Frithiof's Saga", Svenska Amerikanarens Forlag,
            Chicago, 1910.

            Another find from a used book store. I've never really gotten into
            it--it may not be written in O.N. but perhaps modern Swedish. It's
            my understanding that it's actually a modern work in the style of an
            Icelandic Saga.

            Zoega, Geir T., "A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic" Oxford
            University Press, 1910. ISBN 0 19 863108 1

            This was found at a bookstore on the University of Chicago campus.
            My copy is from the 1990 reprint. Is this the same dictionary you
            referred to?
          • longgren@webtv.net
            Please forgive me for going a little bit off topic. I can now do ð, þ, æ, and ø. I know there is no umlaut a in Old Norse, but maybe there is an umlaut o.
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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              Please forgive me for going a little bit off topic.
              I can now do ð, þ, æ, and ø. I know there is no umlaut a
              in Old Norse, but maybe there is an umlaut o. How do you do those?
              My second question is about the "Icelandic" pop star "Bjoerk".
              About 20 years ago I subscribed to the Icelandic newspaper
              Morgunblaðið. I read there that many Icelanders were adopting
              Korean orphans. My question is this: Is Bjoern a Korean?
              http://www.delphi.com/nordichistory
            • robert blank
              Heill Óskar Well, I ve been trying to learn ON for a real long time , about 7-8 years. The first book was Graded Reading Exercises in Old Icelandic avery
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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                Heill �skar

                Well, I've been trying to learn ON for a real long
                time , about 7-8 years. The first book was "Graded
                Reading Exercises in Old Icelandic" avery OLD book,
                probally first printed by Gutenberg. Then I found
                Intro. to Old Norse. For me this was a useless book,
                cause it threw all of the grammer at you with no
                explenation as to what it all ment. The last was "Old
                Icelandic: An Introductory Course" really good book.
                I found it at a Liberary sale along with Zoega's
                Dictionary. The local university has a copy of
                Cleasby-Vigfuson's Dictionary.

                All of these are now Out of Print in the US as far as
                I know. There is a new book out by the Viking Society
                called "A New Introduction to Old Norse" by Michael
                Barns. Its rather good but a real pain in the ass to
                get here in the States. You have to order it from the
                Society and it took me about 3 months to get my copy.

                There are no ON Dictionaries available. Most the
                people that I know photocopied my copy of Zoega.

                And that, my friend is the state of Old Norse in the
                Dayton, Ohio area (southwestern Ohio).

                Rob

                --- �skar Gu�laugsson <hr_oskar@...> wrote:
                > Heil �ll,
                >
                > Can any of you describe for me your experience with
                > finding ON
                > material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have
                > the general
                > impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but
                > I need my memory
                > refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you
                > have managed to
                > find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them.
                > What's with the
                > dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention
                > to it, I admit) Is
                > there really just one ON-English dictionary, that
                > dusty old
                > Cleasby-Vigf�sson thing? You would do great aid to
                > the course if you'd
                > help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your
                > career in ON),
                > either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need
                > the information for
                > something which can mean alot for the course :)
                >
                > Thanks in advance,
                > �skar :)
                >
                >
                > Sumir hafa kv��i...
                > ...a�rir spakm�li.
                >
                > - Keth
                >
                > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > norse_course-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
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              • Óskar Guðlaugsson
                ... Well, manuscript spellings did not use any umlaut symbol (diaresis above vowel symbol), actually; the vowels ý, y; oe, ø; æ, e are three pairs of umlaut
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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                  --- In norse_course@y..., longgren@w... wrote:
                  > Please forgive me for going a little bit off topic.
                  > I can now do ð, þ, æ, and ø. I know there is no umlaut a
                  > in Old Norse, but maybe there is an umlaut o. How do you do those?

                  Well, manuscript spellings did not use any umlaut symbol (diaresis
                  above vowel symbol), actually; the vowels ý, y; oe, ø; æ, e are three
                  pairs of umlaut vowels, distinct by length. German does not make such
                  a length distinction, which makes it easier for German orthography to
                  utilize the umlaut symbol systematically; the German umlaut vowels
                  corresponding to the three pairs above are ü, ö, ä.
                  Anyway, we generally use, in our course, the character ö to
                  represent the so-called 'o-tail'. The o-tail was an umlaut character,
                  representing the an u-umlaut of a. In MI, the descendant sound of the
                  o-tail sound is spelled with an ö; in many ON texts, even ones that
                  use the old ON spelling, the o-tail is likewise represented by ö.
                  So now I've had a long talk about the whole thing without answering
                  your question :) You will probably want to write the ö character
                  somehow; on my keyboard, there's a button in the top row, farthest
                  left, next to 1/!, above <tab>, and below <esc>; that button produces
                  the symbols ° and (with shift) ¨; if I use shift + that button, and
                  follow with a vowel symbol, I get "umlauted vowels": ä, ë, ï, ö, ü, ÿ.
                  But that will probably not work on your keyboard, if that board
                  even has that button... I'm not the man to ask, I guess :)

                  > My second question is about the "Icelandic" pop star "Bjoerk".
                  > About 20 years ago I subscribed to the Icelandic newspaper
                  > Morgunblaðið. I read there that many Icelanders were adopting
                  > Korean orphans. My question is this: Is Bjoern a Korean?

                  No, Björk is actually just a normal Icelander, though I see what
                  you're thinking. She does look unusually oriental for an Icelander. I
                  think it's mere coincidence, though her family line may (wild guess)
                  have had a few Greenlanders (Eskimos) in it... Icelanders and
                  Greenlanders have had extremely little contact, however.

                  Basically, Björk looks quite unusual for an Icelander. We look like
                  other Scandinavians: fair skin, blue eyes dominating (perhaps 70-80%
                  of the population, just my guess), and blonde hair very common. Such
                  as me, except I've got dark hair... (btw! :þ )

                  Óskar
                • Óskar Guðlaugsson
                  Heil öll, I want to thank you all, who have responded in this thread, for your recounting of your ON material. It will be of help. I ll explain that all
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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                    Heil öll,

                    I want to thank you all, who have responded in this thread, for your
                    recounting of your ON material. It will be of help. I'll explain that
                    all sometime next week.

                    Óskar :)
                  • Alfta Reginleif
                    Heil öll, Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON material? I ve heard lots of it before, and I have the general impression of it (of
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 26, 2001
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                      Heil öll,

                      Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
                      material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
                      impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my memory
                      refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed to
                      find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with the
                      dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I admit) Is
                      there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
                      Cleasby-Vigfússon thing? You would do great aid to the course if you'd
                      help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
                      either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the information for
                      something which can mean alot for the course :)

                      Thanks in advance,
                      Óskar :)
                      **********************************

                      Heill Óskar!

                      It's been an exercise in frustration for me from day one. I've been actively
                      searching for material for the last year. I have only found a few other
                      dictionaries besides Zoëga's but all of them have been out of print. Except
                      for Gordon's book the same is true of beginning primers in Old Norse. I have
                      Gordon's book. Actually I have had it for almost a year but I could never
                      make anything out of it. I have some experience learning other languages, I
                      studied Latin, but I could not make anything of Gordon's book. It seemed to
                      me to be more geared to someone who had MUCH experience in learning a
                      language which I did not have. I had checked on Vigfusson's dictionary and
                      Zoëga's dictionary and even if I was lucky enough to find one it would have
                      cost quite a bit of money. So I have been doubly thrilled, first when I
                      found your course, and found that I could actually understand the concepts
                      presented; the concepts I had previously not been able to understand in
                      Gordon's book and secondly when Zoëga's dictionary became available.
                      Basically anything to do with Old Norse, in America, you are going to run
                      into what seems like endless walls. The small amount of material that is
                      there is very very hard to get a hold of. At least when I get finished,
                      Zoëga's dictionary will not be hard to get hold of if you have internet
                      access.

                      -Svanni
                    • Hannah Schroeter
                      Hello! ... I found three worthwhile books in a local library (Badische Landesbibliothek Karlsruhe): Altnordisches Elementarbuch by Friedrich Ranke, Dietrich
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 28, 2001
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                        Hello!

                        On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 11:20:23AM -0000, Óskar Guðlaugsson wrote:
                        > Heil öll,

                        > Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
                        > material?

                        I found three worthwhile books in a local library (Badische Landesbibliothek
                        Karlsruhe):
                        "Altnordisches Elementarbuch" by Friedrich Ranke, Dietrich Hofmann
                        Introduction with a depiction of the developments before Old Norse
                        and after it, also a few explanations about lyrical forms (alliterations,
                        ...). Then something about the sounds (incl. Umlauts, assimilations,
                        consonant developments ...), then the flections (declensions,
                        conjugations, pronomina, ...). Then there were notes on specialities
                        found in the text examples, and about developments from ON to
                        Old Norvegian, Old Svedish, Old Danish, Old Gutnic. Then, the
                        probably biggest part of the book are sample texts, followed by
                        a dictionary (that, however restricted to the words used in the
                        book).
                        German language book!
                        W. H. Wolf-Rottkay: "Altnordisch-Isländisches Lesebuch"
                        A book of Old Norse and modern Icelandic texts.
                        Gísls þáttr Illugasonar, modern Icelandic by-text to that
                        Odds þáttr Ófeigssonar
                        Hrafns þáttr Guðrúnarsonar
                        Góð Boð
                        Remarks about the texts, glossary, dictionary (also restricted
                        to the words used), short table on the strong vocal changes in
                        Old West Norse
                        German language (except the Old Norse/Icelandic texts of course)
                        Snorri Sturluson: Edda, Prologue and Gylfaginning
                        Ed. by Anthony Faulkes
                        W/ an introduction, general and textual notes, glossary (all
                        the words used in the text), index of names
                        English language (except, of course for the original text)

                        The rest I found wrt ON resources was online. The advise for this
                        very list I received just shortly ago on asatru_n_action, some
                        other resources could be obtained from web directories
                        (www.dmoz.org, www.yahoo.com), however usually sorted among Asatru
                        resources, as well as some Asatru pages (Miðnottsol Regintroþ,
                        for a good example, which hosts for example texts from the Poetic
                        Edda in ON).

                        > I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
                        > impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my memory
                        > refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed to
                        > find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them. What's with the
                        > dictionary issue? (I haven't been paying attention to it, I admit) Is
                        > there really just one ON-English dictionary, that dusty old
                        > Cleasby-Vigfússon thing?

                        Okay. The "Elementarbuch" is more of a reference, the grammar part
                        is quite short and compact. Not really ideal for learning (especially
                        compared to the lessons of this very course here!). However, I managed
                        to learn some bits from that and am still working through the text
                        examples of that book, and referring back to the grammar part of
                        it when needed.

                        The other two I haven't worked too much on yet. As they're "just"
                        textbooks, they are not intended as an introduction but as reading
                        *after* you have laid some foundations already.

                        > You would do great aid to the course if you'd
                        > help me with this, by telling your "story" (of your career in ON),
                        > either privately or on-list. Let's just say I need the information for
                        > something which can mean alot for the course :)

                        As said, I learnt some bits from the "Elementarbuch" where the
                        knowledge I brought with me here comes from. The rest are
                        (till now) lessons 1 and 2 from this very course.

                        > Thanks in advance,
                        > Óskar :)

                        Í friði,

                        Hannah.
                      • birgit001@aol.com
                        In a message dated 2/26/01 3:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Heill Oskar, Before this course, I had only dabbled in Modern Icelandic, in preparation for a
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 4, 2001
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                          In a message dated 2/26/01 3:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                          hr_oskar@... writes:


                          Heil öll,

                          Can any of you describe for me your experience with finding ON
                          material? I've heard lots of it before, and I have the general
                          impression of it (of there being an acute lack), but I need my memory
                          refreshed. Like, what were the books like, that you have managed to
                          find, and how easy/difficult was it to obtain them.

                          Heill Oskar,
                          Before this course, I had only dabbled in Modern Icelandic, in preparation
                          for a trip to Iceland.  I also searched for Old Norse material, but found
                          nothing - out of print, ridiculously expensive or bad or all three.  (Sorry,
                          but we got quite frustrated with this.)
                          We bought an English course of Modern Icelandic, which was very confusing and
                          did not work for me at all.  I can't find the book right now, it is buried
                          somewhere.  Second, I found the German "Langenscheidts Praktisches Lehrbuch -
                          Isländisch", and things fell into place for me.  The grammar is organized the
                          way Germans are used to (cases in the order: Nominative, Genitive, Dative,
                          Accusative), pronunciation made sense, and the structure of the course
                          reminds me of the way I learned Latin, French, etc.  A good beginner's book
                          for a German, in my opinion.

                          Third, we bought the Hippocrene Concise Dictionary, Icelandic-English,
                          English-Icelandic, which is better than nothing, but very minimal.  Also,
                          without some understanding of grammar, it is hard to look up things on the
                          Icelandic side.
                          Needless to say, we did not speak much Icelandic by the time we went on our
                          trip :)
                          Greetings,
                          Birgit
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