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Re: [norse_course] Atlakviða með skýringum (Atlakviða wit h Explanations)

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  • Patti (Wilson)
    Thanks LN - that has cleared up something for me - it does look as if the Poets were so very skilled at the use of - and a Science almost of the double
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 24, 2008
      Thanks LN - that has cleared up something for me - it does look as if the Poets were so very  skilled at the
      use of - and a Science almost of the double meaning -
      Kveðja
      Patricia
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      From: llama_nom
      Date: 25/02/2008 00:34:30
      Subject: [norse_course] Atlakviða með skýringum (Atlakviða with Explanations)
       
      --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
      >
       
      > Apart from those Old Norse texts themselves, Icelandic is useful for
      > reading the scholarly apparatus that accompanies Icelandic editions of
      > Old Norse texts and other academic material and *websites* about the
      > medieval literature.
       
      A case in point:
       
       
      I just came across this site with an introduction to the poem and
      notes in Modern Icelandic. I see they interpret 'ár' in the first
      strophe as "once upon a time", "long ago" rather than as "messanger"
      (accusative singular of 'árr', in apposition to 'segg' "man"), which
      is grammatically equally possible.
       
      Atli sendi
      ár til Gunnars
      kunnan segg at ríða,
      Knéfröðr var sá heitinn;
       
      I recently read a paper arguing that this and other notoriously
      debated words in the poem are deliberately ambiguous, and show the
      poets skill in saying more than one thing at once, often juxtaposing
      the polite surface with its sinister undercurrents, as in 'valrauðr'
      "adorned with high-quality (red) gold" or "red with the blood of the
      slain" (Neil C. Hultin 1974: Some homonyms in the Old Norse Atlakviða,
      MLN 89:5, German Issue. pp. 862-866).
       
      LN
       
       
       
      A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
       
       
      To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
       
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    • N thomsen
      long time ago i found 2 videos, there was a Old Norse version and Proto Norse (North Germanic)version. the videos was a play made out of the Atlakviða poem.
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 25, 2008
        long time ago i found 2 videos, there was a Old Norse version and Proto Norse (North Germanic)version. the videos was a play made out of  the Atlakviða poem.
         
        so i downloaded the videos and added subtitel with translation to english. (I translated the videos from the Norwegian subtitels.)
         
        after i made the video i uploaded it to youtube and made a dictionary in the "About this video part" with help from my Icelandic friend.
         
         
        Old Norse version:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCVTodh_6aE
         
        North Germanic version:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3FMwNSHgFI&feature=related


        To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
        From: originalpatricia@...
        Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:37:25 +0000
        Subject: Re: [norse_course] Atlakviða með skýringum (Atlakviða with Explanations)

        Thanks LN - that has cleared up something for me - it does look as if the Poets were so very  skilled at the
        use of - and a Science almost of the double meaning -
        Kveðja
        Patricia
         
        -------Original Message----- --
         
        From: llama_nom
        Date: 25/02/2008 00:34:30
        Subject: [norse_course] Atlakviða með skýringum (Atlakviða with Explanations)
         
        --- In norse_course@ yahoogroups. com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
        >
         
        > Apart from those Old Norse texts themselves, Icelandic is useful for
        > reading the scholarly apparatus that accompanies Icelandic editions of
        > Old Norse texts and other academic material and *websites* about the
        > medieval literature.
         
        A case in point:
         
         
        I just came across this site with an introduction to the poem and
        notes in Modern Icelandic. I see they interpret 'ár' in the first
        strophe as "once upon a time", "long ago" rather than as "messanger"
        (accusative singular of 'árr', in apposition to 'segg' "man"), which
        is grammatically equally possible.
         
        Atli sendi
        ár til Gunnars
        kunnan segg at ríða,
        Knéfröðr var sá heitinn;
         
        I recently read a paper arguing that this and other notoriously
        debated words in the poem are deliberately ambiguous, and show the
        poets skill in saying more than one thing at once, often juxtaposing
        the polite surface with its sinister undercurrents, as in 'valrauðr'
        "adorned with high-quality (red) gold" or "red with the blood of the
        slain" (Neil C. Hultin 1974: Some homonyms in the Old Norse Atlakviða,
        MLN 89:5, German Issue. pp. 862-866).
         
        LN
         
         
         
        A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
         
         
        To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
         
        Yahoo! Groups Links
         
        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
         
        <*> Your email settings:
            Individual Email | Traditional
         
        <*> To change settings online go to:
            (Yahoo! ID required)
         
        <*> To change settings via email:
         
        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
         
        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
         



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      • llama_nom
        Excellent! Thanks for that. I saw them ages ago too, but it s nice to meet them again. And an Old Norse Toon has had the YouTube treatment too I see. A few
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 3, 2008
          Excellent! Thanks for that. I saw them ages ago too, but it's nice to
          meet them again. And an Old Norse Toon has had the YouTube treatment
          too I see.

          A few nit-picky thoughts on the Proto-Norse version:

          *frókinano, *frókinan. Perhaps these should be *fróknijanó and
          *fróknijan. I suspect the 'i' has been added to account for the
          mutated root vowel in Old Norse 'froekn', but the Old English cognate
          of this word is 'frécne', a ja/jo-stem adjective, so the mutation
          would be accounted for anyway by the 'j' of the stem. There's a bit of
          a dilemma here because, out of the attested Germanic languages, only
          Gothic and Proto-Norse inflect i-stem adjectives differently from
          ja/jo-stem adjectives. All the later Germanic languages have lost this
          distinction, although you can tell the difference between some former
          i-stem adjectives and ja/jo-stems in West Germanic, where the root is
          short, by whether or not the consonant the root ends in is geminated
          (doubled). But that trick doesn't work with long roots such as this
          one... Gerhardt Köbler, in his Germanisches Wörterbuch, offers the
          following possible Proto-Germanic reconstructions: *frôkna-, *frôknaz,
          *frôknja, *frôknjaz. But I'm not sure what the basis would be for the
          a-stem reconstruction; Old Saxon has 'frôkni' and 'frêkni'
          (ja/jo-stems), and Old High German only a derivative abstract noun
          'fruohhanî' which could point either way. Köbler doesn't mention any
          other Germanic dialects where the word is attested, so the evidence
          looks pretty good that it was either an i-stem or a ja/jo-stem in
          Proto-Norse.

          *liggjan. I wonder how early gemination of /g/ occured in before /j/.
          Could this be a bit late compared with the inflections? Earlier it
          would have been *ligjan (compare their reconstruction *ligiþ).

          *skorenato. Or *skoranató? Proto-Germanic 'a' > 'e' > 'i' in Old Norse
          in this position. On the other hand, there is evidence for a past
          participle ending -inaz too (cf. 'haitinaz' on the Kalleby runestone,
          'faikinaz' on the Vetteland stone, 'slaginaz' on the Möjbro stone, and
          the Gothic adjective 'fulgins'), but how widespread this ending was
          compared to -anaz I don't know. In Old Norse the 'i' of the past
          participle seems mostly to come from earlier 'a', or else the effects
          of i-mutation have been removed by analogy in those past participles
          where such effects ought to have appeared. The 'o' in the root 'skor'
          and other past participle roots points to a following mid vowel rather
          than a following 'i'.

          *bibaðesik. Originally a long é at the end of the weak 3rd person
          singular preterite: bibaðé-sik.

          *líto. Long ó I think.



          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, N thomsen <nbs1883@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > long time ago i found 2 videos, there was a Old Norse version and
          Proto Norse (North Germanic)version. the videos was a play made out of
          the Atlakviða poem.
          >
          > so i downloaded the videos and added subtitel with translation to
          english. (I translated the videos from the Norwegian subtitels.)
          >
          > after i made the video i uploaded it to youtube and made a
          dictionary in the "About this video part" with help from my Icelandic
          friend.
          >
          >
          > Old Norse version:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCVTodh_6aE
          >
          > North Germanic version:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3FMwNSHgFI&feature=related
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