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Re: [norse _course] Mér líka ekki græn egg og skinka?

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  • Eysteinn Bjornsson
    ... But does anyone ever say mér líkar ? I don t - it feels like a bad translation of the English idiom. (How old is this expression in the language
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 28, 2007
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      Haukur Þorgeirsson <haukurth@...> wrote:

      > "Mér líkar hvorugt" would be correct and idiomatic

      But does anyone ever say "mér líkar"? I don't - it
      feels like a bad translation of the English idiom.
      (How old is this expression in the language anyway?)
      I don't think I ever use "líka", except perhaps
      occasionally in "mér líkar vel/illa VIÐ einhvern",
      but "ég kann vel/illa við" comes more natural to me.
      I would never, ever say "mér líkar hann".

      > 3. ?Mér finnast grauturinn og súpan góð.
      >
      > This is very awkard.

      Really? It is quite correct. Actually, I
      think it would be better to say "Mér finnast
      súpan og grauturinn góð", because that takes
      away the feeling that "góð" is fem. sing. and
      makes it absolutely neut. plur.

      > 4. *Mér finnast kanínur og hundar góð.
      >
      > I just can't say that. Maybe some people can but I can't. There
      doesn't
      > appear to be any way out, this is definitely wrong too:
      >
      > 5. *Mér finnast kanínur og hundar góðir.
      >
      > Why can't I say "I like rabbits and dogs" in my native language?
      Eysteinn?

      The big question here is: what does it mean? If
      I want to say I like eating them, I would say:
      "Mér finnst hunda- og kanínukjöt gott." If I'm
      saying I like them alive, I would say "hundar og
      kanínur eru mér að skapi" or something of that sort.
      I would never us "líka" to express a fondness for
      certain types of animal.

      Some things can only be said in Icelandic ("nenna",
      "hundslappadrífa", "duglegur", etc.) - others are
      very hard to express, especially feelings: the verbs
      "love" and "feel" are very problematic in translation
      ...

      E.
    • Eysteinn Bjornsson
      ... Það þykir mér vondur matur. Kveðja, E.
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 28, 2007
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        --- Haukur Þorgeirsson <haukurth@...> wrote:

        >> I do not like them

        Það þykir mér vondur matur.

        Kveðja,
        E.
      • llama_nom
        ... Would it still be acceptable to use líka in the sense of to be happy/pleased/satisfied with when referring to a specific event or action, or how one
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Eysteinn Bjornsson"
          <eysteinn@...> wrote:
          >
          > Haukur Þorgeirsson <haukurth@> wrote:
          >
          > > "Mér líkar hvorugt" would be correct and idiomatic
          >
          > But does anyone ever say "mér líkar"? I don't - it
          > feels like a bad translation of the English idiom.
          > (How old is this expression in the language anyway?)
          > I don't think I ever use "líka", except perhaps
          > occasionally in "mér líkar vel/illa VIÐ einhvern",
          > but "ég kann vel/illa við" comes more natural to me.
          > I would never, ever say "mér líkar hann".

          Would it still be acceptable to use 'líka' in the sense of "to be
          happy/pleased/satisfied with" when referring to a specific event or
          action, or how one feels about something (a physical object or a
          circumstance) at one particular time, rather than to a general taste
          or preference?

          Konungsdóttir segir sér þetta vel líka
          The king's daughter said that she happy with that. (glad to accede to
          that, well pleased with that offer).

          Eftir það skildu þeir og líkaði hvorigum annars spár.
          After that they parted company and neither was happy with what the
          other had foretold.

          Hversu líkar þér nú skyrtan?
          How do you like the new shirt?

          "En líkar mér," segir hann, "kvonfangið ef þú mátt ná til handa mér
          þessi konunni."
          "But I will be content/happy/pleased ... with the marriage if you can
          gain for me this woman."

          Gerið sem þér líkar .
          Do as you please.

          en fara máttu með oss, ef þér líkar .
          but you can come with us if you like.

          LN
        • llama_nom
          ... Maybe no one has ever yet liked rabbits and dogs simultaneously in Iceland -- or, of they did, preferred not to say so ;)
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Haukur Þorgeirsson <haukurth@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Why can't I say "I like rabbits and dogs" in my native language?

            Maybe no one has ever yet liked rabbits and dogs simultaneously in
            Iceland -- or, of they did, preferred not to say so ;)
          • Eysteinn Bjornsson
            ... I think you may have somewhat misunderstood me. I was just expressing my own modern usage (in the spoken language), not stating anything about general
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 1, 2007
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              --- "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:

              > Would it still be acceptable to use 'líka' in the sense of "to be
              > happy/pleased/satisfied with" when referring to a specific event or
              > action, or how one feels about something (a physical object or a
              > circumstance) at one particular time, rather than to a general taste
              > or preference?

              I think you may have somewhat misunderstood me. I was
              just expressing my own modern usage (in the spoken language),
              not stating anything about general acceptability. And the
              written language tends to be rather different. It is by
              no means INCORRECT or UNACCEPTABLE to say (or write) "mér
              líkar hann", but I find it an awkward thing to speak (and
              not quite as awkward to write). Other generations (or people
              raised in other parts of the country) may disagree, I'm not
              sure. For example, it sounds like Haukur has no problem with
              saying something of the sort.

              > Konungsdóttir segir sér þetta vel líka ...

              None of the examples sound exactly modern (and not
              very old either, for that matter). They are all fairly
              normal usage. In Old Icelandic the meaning is closer
              to "please" than "be likeable", i.e. "mér líkar" = "it
              pleases me".

              > Hversu líkar þér nú skyrtan?
              > How do you like the new shirt?

              This would have to mean: "How do you like the shirt
              NOW." "How do you like the new shirt?" would be "Hversu
              líkar þér nýja skyrtan?" (And in modern Icelandic we
              would say "hvernig" rather than "hversu".

              > Gerið sem þér líkar.
              > Do as you please.

              This is slightly odd. One would either expect
              "gerðu (ger þú)" or "yður". Unless it actually
              means "Do (plural) as you (singular) please".

              > en fara máttu með oss, ef þér líkar.
              > but you can come with us if you like.

              "... if it pleases you" would probably be closer to
              the meaning - but of course it would depend on the
              context.

              Note that although I have a problem with using "mér
              líkar hann", I have no problem with "mér líkar vel
              við hann" (I like him). Note also that we say "mér
              líkar illa við hann" (I don't like him) - which makes
              this quite different from the English "like".

              Regards,
              E.
            • llama_nom
              ... NOW. How do you like the new shirt? would be Hversu líkar þér nýja skyrtan? (And in modern Icelandic we would say hvernig rather than hversu .
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 2, 2007
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                >> Hversu líkar þér nú skyrtan?
                >> How do you like the new shirt?

                > This would have to mean: "How do you like the shirt
                NOW." "How do you like the new shirt?" would be "Hversu
                líkar þér nýja skyrtan?" (And in modern Icelandic we
                would say "hvernig" rather than "hversu".

                Ah yes, of course; I was led astray by the context here. Örvar-Oddr
                has been given a new shirt. But maybe she's asking him how he likes
                it *now* after hearing her describe its making in verse.

                >> Gerið sem þér líkar.
                >> Do as you please.

                > This is slightly odd. One would either expect
                "gerðu (ger þú)" or "yður". Unless it actually
                means "Do (plural) as you (singular) please".

                This is from Völsunga saga. I found it in the Órðabók Háskólans text
                database, which is matched by the version here [
                http://www.snerpa.is/net/forn/volsung.htm ]. But there's another
                online version which seems to keep to the spelling used by Guðni
                Jónsson and Bjarni Vilhjálmsson:

                Högni mælti: "Geri sem þér líkar. Glaðliga mun ek hér bíða þess, er
                þér vilið at gera, ok þat muntu skilja, at eigi er hjarta mitt hrætt,
                ok reynt hefi ek fyrr harða hluti, ok var ek gjarn at þola mannraun,
                þá er ek var ósárr. En nú eru vér mjök sárir, ok muntu einn ráða várum
                skiptum." [
                http://www.heimskringla.no/original/fornaldersagaene/volsungasaga.php ].

                Could this `geri(ð)' be a typo for `ger' or `gerðu'? The rest of the
                paragraph does shift between respectful plural (he's talking to King
                Atli) and singular: þér vilið ... muntu. He also switches between
                singular and plural in the first person: mun ek ... (etc.) ... eru
                vér. (Jesse Byock translates "Do as you like.")

                >> en fara máttu með oss, ef þér líkar.
                >> but you can come with us if you like.

                > "... if it pleases you" would probably be closer to
                the meaning - but of course it would depend on the
                context.

                From Göngu-Hrólfs saga. Hermann Pálsson and Paul Edwards translate /
                paraphrase: "Still you can join us if you want." I'm not sure that I
                understand a distinction in meaning between English "if you like" and
                "if it pleases you (to do so)" in the context of accepting someone's
                request to join a pirate crew on a voyage, except that the latter
                sounds more old-fashioned or a higher register, or extremely polite.

                LN
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