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Njal Ch30 t0 Ene Patricia's effort

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  • Patricia
    Gunnar gaf honum fingurgull og gekk síðan til manna sinna og sagði þeim að herskip lágu öðrum megin nessins Gunnar gave him finger-gold (a ring) and
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 31, 2006
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      Gunnar gaf honum fingurgull og gekk síðan til manna sinna og sagði þeim að
      herskip lágu öðrum megin nessins
      Gunnar gave him finger-gold (a ring) and went (back) afterwards to his men and told them (that)
      warships lay on the other side of the headland
       
      "og vita þeir allt til vor. Tökum vér nú
      vopn vor og búumst við öllu vel og skjótt því að nú er til fjár að vinna."
      "and they know all about us - let us now take (up) our weapons and prepare ourselves all well (fully)  and quickly there is now treasure to be won/gained

      Síðan bjuggust þeir við og þá er þeir voru búnir sjá þeir að skipin fara að
      þeim.
      Then they made themselves ready and (just) as they were ready they saw ships approaching them
       
       Tekst nú orusta með þeim og berjast þeir lengi og verður mannfall
      mikið. Gunnar vó margan mann.
      A battle got under way with them and they fought long and with great loss (of life)
      Gunnar killed many man (? singular - many a man)
       
      Þeir Hallgrímur hljópu á skip til Gunnars.
      Gunnar sneri í mót Hallgrími. Hallgrímur lagði til hans með atgeirinum.
      Those Hallgrims (H. and his kin) leapt onto Gunnar's ship Gunnar turned to face Hallgrim.
      Hallgrim thrust at him with his Halberd/spear
       
      Slá ein var um þvert skipið og hljóp Gunnar aftur yfir öfugur.
      There lay a boom across the ship (ein - one particular - a certain - were there two)
      backwards leapt Gunnar over it
       
      Skjöldur Gunnars
      var fyrir framan slána og lagði Hallgrímur í hann og í gegnum og svo í
      slána.
      Gunnar's shield was in front of the boom and Hallgrim thrust at him (with that Hallberð) and it went through and into the boom ( right ! and through the shield)
       
      Gunnar hjó á hönd Hallgrími og lamdist handleggurinn en sverðið beit
      ekki. Féll þá niður atgeirinn.
      Gunnar slashed at Hallgrim's arm and lamed it, but the sword did not bite (cut).
      The halberð then fell down
       
      Gunnar tók atgeirinn og lagði í gegnum
      Hallgrím. Gunnar bar atgeirinn jafnan síðan.
      Gunnar took (up) the halberd and thrust it through Hallgrim. Gunnar carried it always with
      him (there after) [ possibly for a talisman]
       
      Þeir börðust nafnar og var nær
      hvorum vænna horfið. Þá kom Gunnar að og hjó Kolskegg banahögg.
      this next bit is not abundantly clear -
      They were still fighting  (this must mean those two Kolskeggs) and it was near (a close thing) who was likely to win (?)/ gain victory  until Gunnar  gave (that other) Kolskegg  his death blow.
       
      The story does not actually state that the two Kolskeggs - in the beginning of this paragraph were the ones fighting but it is safe to assume  Hallgrim is well out of it now
       
      Eftir það
      beiddu víkingar sér griða. Gunnar lét þess kost.
      After that the Vikings asked ( were pleading?) for peace for themselves, and Gunnar granted it
       
      Hann lét þá kanna valinn og
      taka fé það er dauðir menn höfðu átt en hann gaf hinum vopn sín og klæði, er
      hann gaf grið, og bað þá fara til fósturjarða sinna.
      He allowed then (his men) to search the slain and to take from those dead the goods they had but he gave - to those whom he granted peace - their weapons and clothing and bade them return to their (own) homelands
       
       Þeir héldu í braut en Gunnar tók fé allt það er eftir var.
      They  held (course)  away  and Gunnar took (up) all that was left behind

      Tófi kom að Gunnari eftir bardagann og bauð að fylgja honum til fjár þess er
      víkingar höfðu fólgið,
      Tofi came to Gunnar after the battle and offered to lead/take him to the treasure that the Vikings had buried/stashed
       
      kvað það vera bæði meira og betra en hitt er þeir
      höfðu áður fengið.
      declared that is was more and better than they had already taken/gained
       
      Gunnar kveðst það vilja. Gekk hann á land með Tófa. Fór
      Tófi fyrir til skógar en Gunnar eftir.
      Gunnar  declared of himself that he wanted this He went ashore with Tofi
      Tofi went into a wood and Gunnar (following ) after 
       
      Þeir komu að þar sem viður var borinn
      saman mikill. Tófi segir að þar var féið undir.
      They came there to (a place where) wood had been pikled up (gathered together)
      Tofi said there was treasure underneath.
       
      Ruddu þeir þá af viðinum og
      fundu undir bæði gull og silfur, klæði og vopn góð. Þeir bera fé þetta til
      skipa.
      They then cleared the wood away and found underneath both gold and silver - clothes and good weapons. They carry this treasure to the ships
       
      Gunnar spurði Tófa hverju er hann vildi að hann launaði honum.
      Gubbar asked Tofi how he wanted to be rewarded

      Tófi svaraði: "Eg er danskur maður að ætt og vildi eg að þú flyttir mig til
      frænda minna."
      Tofi replied " I am a Dane by kinship and I wish that you would (use of subj.) carry me back
      to my kinsfolk"

      Gunnar spurði hví hann væri í Austurvegi.
      Gunnar asked how he came to be in the East - in the Baltic (Well he's far from home)

      "Eg var tekinn af víkingum," segir Tófi, "og var mér skotið hér á land í
      Eysýslu og hefi eg hér verið síðan."
      "I was captured (kidnapped) by the Vikings and was put (?quickly) ashore on Osel
      and have been here (ever) since
       
       
      að þu flyttr - I thought this was use of the subjunctive and the að served the same service as the ut in Latin where they do not use the infinitive as we say - I ask - I strive to - in Latin they ask - or even command THAT - something should happen
      Does this work the same with Old Norse
      and would the mnemonic still work with O/N
      with ask command advise and strive by ut (or in O/N að) translate that infinitive
       
      Only a thought and I would be grateful for any corrections or feedback that
      may be forthcoming
      Kveðja
      Patricia
      For Alan  - I have just seen as I was finishing this offering - that you say they - the namesake - I could not see that - but I bet you have the right of it - it clearly means the two Kolskeggs (k1 and k2) would you please say how you came by this - intriguing

    • llama_nom
      ... That s right, takask to begin; to take place the middle voice form of taka . ... Yes, þeir nafnar the namesakes (the two people with the same
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 31, 2006
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        > Tekst nú orusta með þeim
        > A battle got under way with them


        That's right, 'takask' "to begin; to take place" the middle voice form
        of 'taka'.


        > Þeir börðust nafnar
        > They were fighting (this must mean those two Kolskeggs)


        Yes, 'þeir nafnar' "the namesakes" (the two people with the same
        name). sg. 'nafni' "namesake".


        > og vildi eg að þú flyttir mig til frænda minna

        > að þu flyttir - I thought this was use of the subjunctive and the að
        served the same service as the ut in Latin where they do not use the
        infinitive as we say - I ask - I strive to - in Latin they ask - or
        even command THAT - something should happen
        Does this work the same with Old Norse
        and would the mnemonic still work with O/N
        with ask command advise and strive by ut (or in O/N að) translate that
        infinitive

        It works with lots of verbs like this 'vilja', 'biðja' ...

        Ek bið, at þú gerir mér kunnigt, hversu fólk yðvart heitir.
        Please tell me what your people are called.

        But the infinitive can be used in such expressions too:

        ok bað hann blása
        and bade him blow

        En ek vil biðja þik, at þú hafir þrótt við.
        I want to urge you to bear up under this.

        I don't know enough to say if there are rules or preferrences
        governing which type of expression is used with which verbs or types
        of verbs. A couple of examples with verbs of striving/attempting.

        ... + inf.

        þá laitaði Kálfr at flytja broeðr sína ofan til skips
        then K. tried to move his brother down to the ship

        ok vill nú reyna at brjóta öll heilræði föður síns
        and wants now to try to break all the good advice of his father

        Is it a rule that they would take 'ef' (rather than 'at') +
        subjunctive, when they don't take the infinitive?

        ef + subj.

        ok leitar ef hann yrði varr við hvar þeir Kolbjörn lægi.
        and tries to see if he could discover where Kolbjörn and the others
        were lying
      • Patricia
        As I was in the middle of checking mine before sending I noticed Alan s correct use of the namesakes thing but could not see how it came about - now I do -
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 31, 2006
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          As I was in the middle of checking mine before sending I noticed Alan's correct use of the "namesakes" thing  but could not see how it came about - now I do - thanks a lot for your help
          rather especially with that bit
          Kveðja
          Patricia
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          From: llama_nom
          Date: 31/10/2006 15:08:36
          Subject: [norse_course] Re: Njal Ch30 t0 Ene Patricia's effort
           


          > Tekst nú orusta með þeim
          > A battle got under way with them

          That's right, 'takask' "to begin; to take place" the middle voice form
          of 'taka'.

          > Þeir börðust nafnar
          > They were fighting (this must mean those two Kolskeggs)

          Yes, 'þeir nafnar' "the namesakes" (the two people with the same
          name). sg. 'nafni' "namesake".

          > og vildi eg að þú flyttir mig til frænda minna

          > að þu flyttir - I thought this was use of the subjunctive and the að
          served the same service as the ut in Latin where they do not use the
          infinitive as we say - I ask - I strive to - in Latin they ask - or
          even command THAT - something should happen
          Does this work the same with Old Norse
          and would the mnemonic still work with O/N
          with ask command advise and strive by ut (or in O/N að) translate that
          infinitive

          It works with lots of verbs like this 'vilja', 'biðja' ...

          Ek bið, at þú gerir mér kunnigt, hversu fólk yðvart heitir.
          Please tell me what your people are called.

          But the infinitive can be used in such expressions too:

          ok bað hann blása
          and bade him blow

          En ek vil biðja þik, at þú hafir þrótt við.
          I want to urge you to bear up under this.

          I don't know enough to say if there are rules or preferrences
          governing which type of expression is used with which verbs or types
          of verbs. A couple of examples with verbs of striving/attempting .

          . + inf.

          þá laitaði Kálfr at flytja broeðr sína ofan til skips
          then K. tried to move his brother down to the ship

          ok vill nú reyna at brjóta öll heilræði föður síns
          and wants now to try to break all the good advice of his father

          Is it a rule that they would take 'ef' (rather than 'at') +
          subjunctive, when they don't take the infinitive?

          ef + subj.

          ok leitar ef hann yrði varr við hvar þeir Kolbjörn lægi.
          and tries to see if he could discover where Kolbjörn and the others
          were lying

           
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