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Nature

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  • Blanc Voden
    Hi there, Some pondering. Mín náttúra er og mitt eðli. My quality is also my nature. Að eðla is eðlilega (eðla is lizard) the act of making it [the
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 8, 2006
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      Hi there,

      Some pondering.

      Mín náttúra er og mitt eðli.

      My quality is also my nature.

      Að eðla is eðlilega (eðla is lizard) the act of making it [the
      babies]normally.

      "Öll náttúra mannsins" or

      All the natural behavior of man.

      Esp.usage.
      Drengir fá náttúru þegar þeir fá fyrst sáðLát.
      Boys have "nature" as the drop sperm for first time.

      Period is marking of Girl's nature.

      inseminate: láta sæði eftir [handa kvenManninum].
      or leave semen behind [for the female].

      Eftir-læti [some one could leave behind] :
      The females favorite.

      Eftirlæti means also in genaral speaking: favorite.

      Metaphor.
      Konungur/Höfuð [Glans], Hörund [skin, forskin], Háls/skaft[prick?]

      Reð'ur, Skönd'ull, Getnað'arLim'ur, Böll'ur.

      "Hör": (rimes with Her) no wonder it is said refer to women in
      poetry. I say "Hör" is [corse] hair:
      Hör-und-ir is one meaning of "HörUnd" and Under Hair is
      skin,leather and flesh.
      Hör is earth's hair meaning linen.
      Hrút was not potent by Unni, therefore she did not receive favorite
      "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism.

      Thanks Uoden

      Sorry vernacular dictionaries are still impotent in the matters of
      explaing there match in our Story.
    • llama_nom
      ... Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má ekki eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 10, 2006
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        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:
        >
        > "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism


        Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má ekki
        eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
        vega að við mættum njótast en það verður ekki. En þó áður við skiljum
        sýnir hann það af sér að hann er í æði sínu rétt sem aðrir menn.


        I took this to mean that he did ejaculate eventually (just not in
        her), and that is how he showed himself to be "exactly like other men".

        BV, note:

        "organism" = lífvera. A crearture, a living being, the collection of
        organs and processes that together make up a living creature.

        "orgasm" = fullnæging. Sexual climax.
      • AThompson
        Am I missing something here? The discussion seems to be suggesting that ‘í æði sínu’is translated as in his frenzy = climax/orgasm, based on the
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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          Am I missing something here? The discussion seems to be suggesting that ‘í æði sínu’is translated as in his frenzy = climax/orgasm, based on the feminine noun ‘æði’ But surely the noun is the neuter noun ‘æði’ (note the neut dat sg pronoun sínu) which Zoega gives the meaning nature, disposition, mind. Note also that ‘sem aðrir menn’ can mean like other human beings, ie not necessarily males. Taken together, I took this mean that Hrút having briefly become some kind of supernatural monster with a gigantic (and therefore somewhat

          (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

        • Patricia
          Excuse me Alan I believe you have the right of it, - of course that is only because your assumption does so agree with my one - therefore I recognize what is
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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            Excuse me Alan I believe you have the right of it, - of course that is only because your assumption does so agree with my one - therefore I recognize what is "right" in your translation.
            I do not believe you miss much at all
            Kveðja
            Patricia 
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            From: AThompson
            Date: 07/11/06 10:56:44
            Subject: RE: [norse_course] Re: Nature
             

            Am I missing something here? The discussion seems to be suggesting that ‘í æði sínu’is translated as in his frenzy = climax/orgasm, based on the feminine noun ‘æði’ But surely the noun is the neuter noun ‘æði’ (note the neut dat sg pronoun sínu) which Zoega gives the meaning nature, disposition, mind. Note also that ‘sem aðrir menn’ can mean like other human beings, ie not necessarily males. Taken together, I took this mean that Hrút having briefly become some kind of supernatural monster with a gigantic (and therefore somewhat ineffective) phallus simply resumed normal human characteristics and form.

             

            Kveðja

            Alan

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of llama_nom
            Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 4:55 AM
            To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [norse_course] Re: Nature

             

            --- In norse_course@ yahoogroups. com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:

            >
            > "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism

            Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má ekki
            eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
            vega að við mættum njótast en það verður ekki. En þó áður við skiljum
            sýnir hann það af sér að hann er í æði sínu rétt sem aðrir menn.

            I took this to mean that he did ejaculate eventually (just not in
            her), and that is how he showed himself to be "exactly like other men".

            BV, note:

            "organism" = lífvera. A crearture, a living being, the collection of
            organs and processes that together make up a living creature.

            "orgasm" = fullnæging. Sexual climax.


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          • llama_nom
            Hi Alan, Yes, I did take it for the neuter oeði , meaning in this case nature . I just assumed that the implication of the sentence was that his normal
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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              Hi Alan,

              Yes, I did take it for the neuter 'oeði', meaning in this case
              "nature". I just assumed that the implication of the sentence was
              that his normal nature was shown by him coming, thus demonstrating
              that he was in no way impotent, even though he couldn't have
              penetrative intercourse with his wife. Interesting that we reached
              different conclusions though, even though I think we interpreted the
              literal meaning and grammar the same. What does everyone else think?
              I suppose part of the reason I was thinking along these lines was
              that the story, having built up this expectation that Gunnhild has
              enchanted away his manhood, it then almost goes out of its way to
              demonstrate that the situation isn't like that after all, and to cast
              no slur on his manliness (or that of his descendents, if they were
              among the sagas original audience?), so it goes through each of the
              things that you might suspect were wrong with him, and establishes
              that they aren't, just this one problem with this one woman. To
              complete the picture, we later find out that he has no deficiency in
              respect of fertility either.

              Llama Nom


              --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "AThompson" <athompso@...> wrote:
              >
              > Am I missing something here? The discussion seems to be suggesting that
              > `í æði sínu'is translated as in his frenzy = climax/orgasm, based on the
              > feminine noun `æði' But surely the noun is the neuter noun `æði' (note
              > the neut dat sg pronoun sínu) which Zoega gives the meaning nature,
              > disposition, mind. Note also that `sem aðrir menn' can mean like other
              > human beings, ie not necessarily males. Taken together, I took this mean
              > that Hrút having briefly become some kind of supernatural monster with a
              > gigantic (and therefore somewhat ineffective) phallus simply resumed
              > normal human characteristics and form.
              >
              > Kveðja
              > Alan
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of llama_nom
              > Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 4:55 AM
              > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Nature
              >
              > --- In HYPERLINK
              > "mailto:norse_course%40yahoogroups.com"norse_course@...,
              > "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
              > >
              > > "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism
              >
              > Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má ekki
              > eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
              > vega að við mættum njótast en það verður ekki. En þó áður við skiljum
              > sýnir hann það af sér að hann er í æði sínu rétt sem aðrir menn.
              >
              > I took this to mean that he did ejaculate eventually (just not in
              > her), and that is how he showed himself to be "exactly like other men".
            • Patricia
              Saellir Peter ok Alan I find it useful but I have just realised why - if I am stuck on a word beginning with æ I try o almost automatically because I wonder
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                Saellir Peter ok Alan
                I find it useful but I have just realised why - if I am stuck on a word beginning with æ  I try œ almost automatically because I wonder often if it could be that the two pairs of ligatured letters could be mistaken one for the other.
                Say if a scribe mistook œ  and wrote æ  instead this might happen more often than we think
                Með bestum Kveðjum
                Patricia
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: llama_nom
                Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:34 AM
                Subject: [norse_course] Re: Nature


                Hi Alan,

                Yes, I did take it for the neuter 'oeði', meaning in this case
                "nature". I just assumed that the implication of the sentence was
                that his normal nature was shown by him coming, thus demonstrating
                that he was in no way impotent, even though he couldn't have
                penetrative intercourse with his wife. Interesting that we reached
                different conclusions though, even though I think we interpreted the
                literal meaning and grammar the same. What does everyone else think?
                I suppose part of the reason I was thinking along these lines was
                that the story, having built up this expectation that Gunnhild has
                enchanted away his manhood, it then almost goes out of its way to
                demonstrate that the situation isn't like that after all, and to cast
                no slur on his manliness (or that of his descendents, if they were
                among the sagas original audience?), so it goes through each of the
                things that you might suspect were wrong with him, and establishes
                that they aren't, just this one problem with this one woman. To
                complete the picture, we later find out that he has no deficiency in
                respect of fertility either.

                Llama Nom

                --- In norse_course@ yahoogroups. com, "AThompson" <athompso@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Am I missing something here? The discussion seems to be suggesting that
                > `í æði sínu'is translated as in his frenzy = climax/orgasm, based on the
                > feminine noun `æði' But surely the noun is the neuter noun `æði' (note
                > the neut dat sg pronoun sínu) which Zoega gives the meaning nature,
                > disposition, mind. Note also that `sem aðrir menn' can mean like other
                > human beings, ie not necessarily males. Taken together, I took this mean
                > that Hrút having briefly become some kind of supernatural monster with a
                > gigantic (and therefore somewhat ineffective) phallus simply resumed
                > normal human characteristics and form.
                >
                > Kveðja
                > Alan
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: norse_course@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:norse_course@ yahoogroups. com]
                > On Behalf Of llama_nom
                > Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 4:55 AM
                > To: norse_course@ yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Nature
                >
                > --- In HYPERLINK
                > "mailto:norse_ course%40yahoogr oups.com" norse_course@ ...,
                > "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                > >
                > > "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism
                >
                > Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má ekki
                > eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
                > vega að við mættum njótast en það verður ekki. En þó áður við skiljum
                > sýnir hann það af sér að hann er í æði sínu rétt sem aðrir menn.
                >
                > I took this to mean that he did ejaculate eventually (just not in
                > her), and that is how he showed himself to be "exactly like other men".

              • Blanc Voden
                Hi llama there, How nicely right you are. Same as indicating he did not have orgasm inside here. As Hörund here I take for foreskin. Æði (I) rush refers
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                  Hi llama there,

                  How nicely right you are.

                  Same as indicating he did not have orgasm inside here.

                  As "Hörund" here I take for foreskin.

                  Æði (I) rush refers to physical movements or behavior.
                  ÆðisKast is frenzy or much æði. "Rann á hann æði eitt mikið".
                  Æðislegur: is fantastic
                  See S'æði. is semen.

                  Thanks Uoden
                  If æ(aí) was take up for reasons of euphony.
                  Then maby auðð=öíðð>æð or óðð=oúðð>æð


                  --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "EftirLæti" same as saying he did not have organism.
                  >
                  >
                  > Þegar hann kemur við mig þá er hörund hans svo mikið að hann má
                  ekki
                  > eftirlæti hafa við mig en þó höfum við bæði breytni til þess á alla
                  > vega að við mættum njótast en það verður ekki. En þó áður við
                  skiljum
                  > sýnir hann það af sér að hann er í æði sínu rétt sem aðrir menn.
                  >
                  >
                  > I took this to mean that he did ejaculate eventually (just not in
                  > her), and that is how he showed himself to be "exactly like other
                  men".
                  >
                  > BV, note:
                  >
                  > "organism" = lífvera. A crearture, a living being, the collection
                  of
                  > organs and processes that together make up a living creature.
                  >
                  > "orgasm" = fullnæging. Sexual climax.
                  >
                • llama_nom
                  Sæl Patricia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA In the 12th century, there are believed to have been two phonemically distinct sounds, which in the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                    Sæl Patricia,

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA

                    In the 12th century, there are believed to have been two phonemically
                    distinct sounds, which in the normalised "Old Norse" spelling used by
                    Norse Course are written 'oe' and 'æ'. The first of these, as you
                    know, is written as a ligature by Gordon and Zoega and other printed
                    books, but as two separate letters in the Norse course lessons to make
                    them easier to tell apart (the two letters can look almost identical
                    in italics on a computer screen). Various other spellings were used
                    in the manuscripts besides these.

                    'oe' (the result of i-mutation of 'ó') was probably pronounced
                    something like the 'ö' in German 'schön'. In the X-SAMPA phonetic
                    alphebet [2:].

                    'æ' (which resulted from i-mutation of 'á') was probably pronounced
                    something like the long mid-open front vowel in English 'fair'. In
                    teh X-SAMPA phonetic alphabet [E:].

                    Some time in the middle ages (during the later part of the 13th c.
                    according to Gordon) the distinction was lost in pronunciation between
                    the two sounds. 'oe' was lowered lost its lip rounding and came to be
                    pronounced exactly like 'æ'. A lot of printed and online texts use
                    'æ' regardless of whether it is original, or would previously have
                    been 'oe'. In fact, the authors of many of these works would have
                    made no distinction between them in spelling or pronunciation. Of
                    course, texts in modern Icelandic spelling use only 'æ'.

                    Later still, the long vowel 'æ' became a diphthong. In Modern
                    Icelandic it's pronounced a bit like the English word 'eye', although
                    the exact pronunciation varies depending on context.

                    This is more Blanc Uoden's area of expertise, the modern
                    pronunciation, but I'll have a go at explaining it as best I can.

                    The second element of the diphthong is long and tense [i:], as in
                    English 'we' (1) when less than two consonants follow; (2) when
                    followed by p, t, k, s + j, v, r. The second element is short and
                    tense [i], like 'i' in French 'lit', before 'ng', 'nk'. Otherwise the
                    second element is short and lax [I], like 'i' in Emglish 'pit'.

                    sæl [sai:l]
                    sæll [saItl_0]
                    sæng [saink]

                    These could also be represented in Modern Icelandic spelling as
                    'saíl', 'saidl', 'saíng'. According to Gordon's guide to medieval
                    pronunciation, the author of Njáls saga may have pronounced these
                    something like: [sE:5], [sE:l:], [sE:Ng].

                    The colon in phonetic transcriptions means that the preceding sound is
                    long. [E:] is the vowel in English 'fair'. Added complication, the
                    'l' in 'sæl' according to Gordon and other books I've read, would
                    probably have had a "back" sound [5], like the English 'l' in 'hill',
                    whereas the Old Norse double 'll' would have had the "front" sound of
                    English 'like', as well as taking slightly longer to say than a single
                    [l].

                    Llama Nom





                    --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Saellir Peter ok Alan
                    > I find it useful but I have just realised why - if I am stuck on a
                    word beginning with æ I try o almost automatically because I wonder
                    often if it could be that the two pairs of ligatured letters could be
                    mistaken one for the other.
                    > Say if a scribe mistook o and wrote æ instead this might happen
                    more often than we think
                    > Með bestum Kveðjum
                    > Patricia
                    >
                    >
                  • Haukur Þorgeirsson
                    ... Actually we used oe because the oe-ligature is not a Latin-1 character and Latin-1 was overwhelmingly used for Icelandic texts back then. If I were to
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                      > In the 12th century, there are believed to have been two phonemically
                      > distinct sounds, which in the normalised "Old Norse" spelling used by
                      > Norse Course are written 'oe' and 'æ'. The first of these, as you
                      > know, is written as a ligature by Gordon and Zoega and other printed
                      > books, but as two separate letters in the Norse course lessons to make
                      > them easier to tell apart (the two letters can look almost identical
                      > in italics on a computer screen).

                      Actually we used 'oe' because the oe-ligature is not a Latin-1 character
                      and Latin-1 was overwhelmingly used for Icelandic texts back then. If I
                      were to start something like this now I'd use Unicode and probably go with
                      the ligature.

                      But your point is valid, they *are* difficult to tell apart, especially
                      when italicized.

                      Regards,
                      Haukur
                    • Blanc Voden
                      Hi there, MÁL FRÆÐ INN AR GRUND VÖLL UR (P.78) Is the morphological composition of Ólaf Hvítaskáld [ca. 1250). Diptongus er saman límíng tveggja
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                        Hi there,

                        MÁL'FRÆÐ'INN'AR'GRUND'VÖLL'UR (P.78)
                        Is the morphological composition of Ólaf Hvítaskáld [ca. 1250).

                        "Diptongus er saman'límíng tveggja raddar'stafa í einni sam'stöfu,
                        þeirra er báðir halda afli sínu. þessir eru límíngar'stafir í rúnum:
                        ??? fyrir ae, ....
                        oe er hinn fjórði diptongus í latínu, ok er hann eigi í rúnum."

                        [vowel is raddarStafur: samstafa is syllable]
                        ae e sounds as in [be]. aí or aj also.
                        As I see it Gordon amongst many others are losing factors of
                        the orginal word construction rules.
                        oe or oí or oj (oy) is unic morpheme in Icelandic Tongue it stands
                        alone and its meaning is rejection.

                        Of corse as it was not in "rúnum" it is not orginal; it is Latin.

                        One does not need misguided speculations or beliefs if
                        formal description of the experts is available.

                        Thanks Uoden

                        Those diphtongues are natural in "rúnum" aú=á, uú=ú,oú=ó; ií=í,
                        öí=au , eí=ei
                        But oí/oe or aí/ae are not.
                        As I reckon "rúnir" reflect the oral tongue. So Gordon is making
                        huge mistake about the Icelandic morphology.
                        We have: How, who, rainbow. We have: Bee, un Deuil, they
                        as natural diphtongues.

                        I tell you as Latin does not distinguish between full and half-full
                        consonant sound: [en, enn: written in Latin as en]
                        they could survive in native measure as syllables by replacing enn
                        with jen.
                        je>è is not natural diphtong either.
                        árr>jár, úrr>júr, órr>jór/ær, aur>jör/ær, írr>ýr, eírr>eyr.
                        According to demands from Rome, I wonder.

                        n'ýr is n'ew. snjór=snær (s)nórr >[s]nogur. Parallel to sneig [neige)
                        Like Nó is nei. og(h) is way to denote long o.
                        See yoghurt by the Perse or is it Turks?
                        O isclandic is au in Latin is someone has forgotten it.

                        mí goes long mig as igh is long i:
                        e is long i by British and so it was probably by the Romans.
                        As by the Greeks.

                        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Sæl Patricia,
                        >
                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA
                        >
                        > In the 12th century, there are believed to have been two
                        phonemically
                        > distinct sounds, which in the normalised "Old Norse" spelling used
                        by
                        > Norse Course are written 'oe' and 'æ'. The first of these, as you
                        > know, is written as a ligature by Gordon and Zoega and other
                        printed
                        > books, but as two separate letters in the Norse course lessons to
                        make
                        > them easier to tell apart (the two letters can look almost
                        identical
                        > in italics on a computer screen). Various other spellings were
                        used
                        > in the manuscripts besides these.
                        >
                        > 'oe' (the result of i-mutation of 'ó') was probably pronounced
                        > something like the 'ö' in German 'schön'. In the X-SAMPA phonetic
                        > alphebet [2:].
                        >
                        > 'æ' (which resulted from i-mutation of 'á') was probably pronounced
                        > something like the long mid-open front vowel in English 'fair'. In
                        > teh X-SAMPA phonetic alphabet [E:].
                        >
                        > Some time in the middle ages (during the later part of the 13th c.
                        > according to Gordon) the distinction was lost in pronunciation
                        between
                        > the two sounds. 'oe' was lowered lost its lip rounding and came
                        to be
                        > pronounced exactly like 'æ'. A lot of printed and online texts use
                        > 'æ' regardless of whether it is original, or would previously have
                        > been 'oe'. In fact, the authors of many of these works would have
                        > made no distinction between them in spelling or pronunciation. Of
                        > course, texts in modern Icelandic spelling use only 'æ'.
                        >
                        > Later still, the long vowel 'æ' became a diphthong. In Modern
                        > Icelandic it's pronounced a bit like the English word 'eye',
                        although
                        > the exact pronunciation varies depending on context.
                        >
                        > This is more Blanc Uoden's area of expertise, the modern
                        > pronunciation, but I'll have a go at explaining it as best I can.
                        >
                        > The second element of the diphthong is long and tense [i:], as in
                        > English 'we' (1) when less than two consonants follow; (2) when
                        > followed by p, t, k, s + j, v, r. The second element is short and
                        > tense [i], like 'i' in French 'lit', before 'ng', 'nk'. Otherwise
                        the
                        > second element is short and lax [I], like 'i' in Emglish 'pit'.
                        >
                        > sæl [sai:l]
                        > sæll [saItl_0]
                        > sæng [saink]
                        >
                        > These could also be represented in Modern Icelandic spelling as
                        > 'saíl', 'saidl', 'saíng'. According to Gordon's guide to medieval
                        > pronunciation, the author of Njáls saga may have pronounced these
                        > something like: [sE:5], [sE:l:], [sE:Ng].
                        >
                        > The colon in phonetic transcriptions means that the preceding
                        sound is
                        > long. [E:] is the vowel in English 'fair'. Added complication,
                        the
                        > 'l' in 'sæl' according to Gordon and other books I've read, would
                        > probably have had a "back" sound [5], like the English 'l'
                        in 'hill',
                        > whereas the Old Norse double 'll' would have had the "front" sound
                        of
                        > English 'like', as well as taking slightly longer to say than a
                        single
                        > [l].
                        >
                        > Llama Nom
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia" <originalpatricia@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Saellir Peter ok Alan
                        > > I find it useful but I have just realised why - if I am stuck on
                        a
                        > word beginning with æ I try o almost automatically because I
                        wonder
                        > often if it could be that the two pairs of ligatured letters could
                        be
                        > mistaken one for the other.
                        > > Say if a scribe mistook o and wrote æ instead this might happen
                        > more often than we think
                        > > Með bestum Kveðjum
                        > > Patricia
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • llama_nom
                        ... The sense of the Latin word diphtongus in this passage from the Third Grammatical Treatise also occurs sometimes in English. The Oxford English
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi there,
                          >
                          > MÁL'FRÆÐ'INN'AR'GRUND'VÖLL'UR (P.78)
                          > Is the morphological composition of Ólaf Hvítaskáld [ca. 1250).
                          >
                          > "Diptongus er saman'límíng tveggja raddar'stafa í einni sam'stöfu,
                          > þeirra er báðir halda afli sínu. þessir eru límíngar'stafir í rúnum:
                          > ??? fyrir ae, ....
                          > oe er hinn fjórði diptongus í latínu, ok er hann eigi í rúnum."
                          >


                          The sense of the Latin word 'diphtongus' in this passage from the
                          Third Grammatical Treatise also occurs sometimes in English. The
                          Oxford English dictionary has a definition: "In popular use, applied
                          to the ligatures æ, oe-ligature of the Roman alphabet." But when
                          modern linguists use the term diphthong, they are referring to a
                          combination of two vowel sounds (or a vowel and a semi-vowel glide) in
                          one syllable.


                          > [vowel is raddarStafur: samstafa is syllable]


                          Yes.


                          > ae e sounds as in [be]. aí or aj also.


                          In Modern Icelandic pronunciation. We can see that this wasn't always
                          the case by the fact that the anonymous author of the First
                          Grammatical Treatise uses 'vænisk' "boasts of" and 'venisk' "become
                          used to" as an example of vowels which differ only according to
                          whether the vowel is long or short "hvárt stafr er langr eða skammr".
                        • llama_nom
                          ... On the contrary, it seems more natural to take hörund flesh as a euphemism for the penis as a whole, and indeed this is the interpretation of the
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:
                            >

                            > As "Hörund" here I take for foreskin.


                            On the contrary, it seems more natural to take 'hörund' "flesh" as a
                            euphemism for the penis as a whole, and indeed this is the
                            interpretation of the professional translations we have consulted
                            (with the exception of Dasent's, which abridged the passage).
                          • Blanc Voden
                            Hi there, As greek write in one statue (figure) long spell, but in other statue short spell... Is what you are refering to ... He showing us the Icelanders
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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                              Hi there,

                              "As greek write in one statue (figure) long spell, but in other
                              statue
                              short spell... "

                              Is what you are refering to ...
                              He showing us the Icelanders the greek technic.
                              I take this not as an children book.

                              The word you are referring to are:
                              veniz >venjist and véniz>vænist.

                              k'vænast take for a wife. Vænast gives vændi Prostitution



                              The z usage amongst lot of other things confesses that the author is
                              Ari Fróði: indeed the one that first take up writing like the Clerks
                              of Norway.

                              e is thin but aí=æ is unnatural diphtongue


                              This is among many crucial reeding errors of foreigners

                              Thanks Uoden.


                              --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi there,
                              > >
                              > > MÁL'FRÆÐ'INN'AR'GRUND'VÖLL'UR (P.78)
                              > > Is the morphological composition of Ólaf Hvítaskáld [ca. 1250).
                              > >
                              > > "Diptongus er saman'límíng tveggja raddar'stafa í einni
                              sam'stöfu,
                              > > þeirra er báðir halda afli sínu. þessir eru límíngar'stafir í
                              rúnum:
                              > > ??? fyrir ae, ....
                              > > oe er hinn fjórði diptongus í latínu, ok er hann eigi í rúnum."
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > The sense of the Latin word 'diphtongus' in this passage from the
                              > Third Grammatical Treatise also occurs sometimes in English. The
                              > Oxford English dictionary has a definition: "In popular use,
                              applied
                              > to the ligatures æ, oe-ligature of the Roman alphabet." But when
                              > modern linguists use the term diphthong, they are referring to a
                              > combination of two vowel sounds (or a vowel and a semi-vowel
                              glide) in
                              > one syllable.
                              >
                              >
                              > > [vowel is raddarStafur: samstafa is syllable]
                              >
                              >
                              > Yes.
                              >
                              >
                              > > ae e sounds as in [be]. aí or aj also.
                              >
                              >
                              > In Modern Icelandic pronunciation. We can see that this wasn't
                              always
                              > the case by the fact that the anonymous author of the First
                              > Grammatical Treatise uses 'vænisk' "boasts of" and 'venisk' "become
                              > used to" as an example of vowels which differ only according to
                              > whether the vowel is long or short "hvárt stafr er langr eða
                              skammr".
                              >
                            • llama_nom
                              It s just been pointed out to me that the oe-ligature is actually a 19th century invention. The symbol used by the First Grammarian (author of the First
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                It's just been pointed out to me that the oe-ligature is actually a
                                19th century invention. The symbol used by the First Grammarian
                                (author of the First Grammatical Treatise) was 'ø' with a mark to
                                indicate length. This practice is sometimes used in modern grammars
                                too [ http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_noreen/b0413.png ].

                                Among his examples of vowels which differ only by length, the First
                                Grammarian has: Vel líkuðu Goþrøþe góþ rø´þe "Well did G. like good
                                oars." In normalised ON spelling, Norse Course style: Vel líkuðu
                                Goðrøði góð roeði. From this, in case any doubt remains, it seems
                                pretty clear that the sound described was a simple long vowel and not
                                a diphthong at this time.

                                The presumed pronunciation of 'oe' in Classical Latin and 'oi' in
                                Classical Greek is not really relevant to the question of how an
                                Icelandic sound, written with a completely different symbol, was
                                pronounced in the 12th and 13th centuries. Besides, the Greek and
                                Latin diphthongs had become monophthongs in their respective languages
                                many hundreds of years before the First Grammatical Treasise was written.
                              • llama_nom
                                ... I m not sure exactly what you are saying is an error, but the view that Icelandic pronunciation has changed over time in more or less the way described by
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                  --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:




                                  > This is among many crucial reeding errors of foreigners



                                  I'm not sure exactly what you are saying is an error, but the view
                                  that Icelandic pronunciation has changed over time in more or less the
                                  way described by Gordon is shared by all serious scholars as far as
                                  I'm aware, including those native to Iceland.
                                • llama_nom
                                  ... Correction: what I was actually told was that the oe-ligature is NOT USED in the manuscripts. It was invented by modern scholars, as far as I can
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                    --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > It's just been pointed out to me that the oe-ligature is actually a
                                    > 19th century invention. The symbol used by the First Grammarian
                                    > (author of the First Grammatical Treatise) was 'ø' with a mark to
                                    > indicate length. This practice is sometimes used in modern grammars
                                    > too [ http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_noreen/b0413.png ].


                                    Correction: what I was actually told was that the oe-ligature "is NOT
                                    USED in the manuscripts. It was "invented" by modern scholars, as far as
                                    I can ascertain. When, I'm not sure, but probably in the 19th century".
                                  • Blanc Voden
                                    Hi there, Vel líkaði Goðröði góð reyði. reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout. ö is thin and ey=eí is broad. In a the prologe of the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                      Hi there,

                                      Vel líkaði Goðröði góð reyði.

                                      reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout.

                                      ö is thin and ey=eí is broad.

                                      In a the prologe of the composition. The first work
                                      is said to be of Þorodd runic master. (Ari is author of the second,
                                      I was mistaken before)

                                      The examples Þórodd uses are of runes from various times and places
                                      I reckon. He uses "norrænu" as style "fyrir önnkost"
                                      And all the essay is more or less clandestine. All the approaches he
                                      makes, we could name chapter 4. the Greek branch , serve to give
                                      those native and of interest information to tune the Icelandic
                                      genuine basis them self.

                                      The Icelandic measure uses double consonants to indicate same vovel
                                      sound long. Long a in "am" short a in "amm"
                                      Naturally long a in "ám" [=aúm]. Á is slashed: of it came "grant" a
                                      long time ago. off Ó [oú] came "grant" o. Undan Ú kom grant "u".

                                      Á, Ó and Ú are clearly then defined as Naturally long. Measuring 1
                                      1/2 I reckon.
                                      Thanks Uoden.

                                      Venjist eigi góður maður því,þó vândur maðr væniz góðum konum.
                                      vóna>væna.
                                      Good man shall not get used to that, though evil man deludes good
                                      women.
                                      I take the native masterminds literary.


                                      --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It's just been pointed out to me that the oe-ligature is actually a
                                      > 19th century invention. The symbol used by the First Grammarian
                                      > (author of the First Grammatical Treatise) was 'ø' with a mark to
                                      > indicate length. This practice is sometimes used in modern
                                      grammars
                                      > too [ http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_noreen/b0413.png ].
                                      >
                                      > Among his examples of vowels which differ only by length, the First
                                      > Grammarian has: Vel líkuðu Goþrøþe góþ rø´þe "Well did G. like
                                      good
                                      > oars." In normalised ON spelling, Norse Course style: Vel líkuðu
                                      > Goðrøði góð roeði. From this, in case any doubt remains, it seems
                                      > pretty clear that the sound described was a simple long vowel and
                                      not
                                      > a diphthong at this time.
                                      >
                                      > The presumed pronunciation of 'oe' in Classical Latin and 'oi' in
                                      > Classical Greek is not really relevant to the question of how an
                                      > Icelandic sound, written with a completely different symbol, was
                                      > pronounced in the 12th and 13th centuries. Besides, the Greek and
                                      > Latin diphthongs had become monophthongs in their respective
                                      languages
                                      > many hundreds of years before the First Grammatical Treasise was
                                      written.
                                      >
                                    • llama_nom
                                      ... No, the word is roeði . We can tell it must have had this vowel from the fact that it s used in this example as the long equivalent to ø . If you look
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@...> wrote:




                                        > reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout.


                                        No, the word is 'roeði'. We can tell it must have had this vowel from
                                        the fact that it's used in this example as the long equivalent to 'ø'.
                                        If you look at the text, you will see that the meaning is explained
                                        immediately after the example: þat eru góðar árar "those are good oars".
                                      • Blanc Voden
                                        Yes, Árar eru framflEYtur, og ø (dansk) is ey in Icelandic. [ø figure slashed (íed) the exterior O is invisible: tvö they are] : oe is not Icelandic.
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                          Yes,

                                          Árar eru framflEYtur, og
                                          ø (dansk) is ey in Icelandic. [ø figure slashed (íed) the exterior O
                                          is invisible: tvö they are] :
                                          oe is not Icelandic.

                                          verri og verra >veira is rotten spot in wood.
                                          ræsi er skora: rós'is >ræsi of Bees. The red plant's vagina.
                                          Red oasis.
                                          ræsi is also gutter were "rottan" lives.

                                          rètt kann ræði slíta
                                          ræsis herr or verri.

                                          Slíta má þollinum [áranna] með mikil notkunn eða engri.
                                          róði>ræði Ó is broad .
                                          This is runic hoax, I reckon.

                                          Thanks Uoden

                                          {ö í} is similiar to {e í u}.

                                          Also "Öí" is naturally long "ö" öí or by modern spelling au.


                                          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > No, the word is 'roeði'. We can tell it must have had this vowel
                                          from
                                          > the fact that it's used in this example as the long equivalent
                                          to 'ø'.
                                          > If you look at the text, you will see that the meaning is
                                          explained
                                          > immediately after the example: þat eru góðar árar "those are good
                                          oars".
                                          >
                                        • Blanc Voden
                                          Þetta eru góðar árar: 1. framfleyta eða ár:rètt kann ræði slíta 2. framfleyta eða ár: ræsis herri or verri. example of 2 oars here indicating 2
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                            Þetta eru góðar árar:

                                            1. framfleyta eða ár:rètt kann ræði slíta
                                            2. framfleyta eða ár: ræsis herri or verri.

                                            example of 2 oars here indicating 2 verses.

                                            Thanks Uoden
                                            in untied measure.

                                            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > No, the word is 'roeði'. We can tell it must have had this vowel
                                            from
                                            > the fact that it's used in this example as the long equivalent
                                            to 'ø'.
                                            > If you look at the text, you will see that the meaning is
                                            explained
                                            > immediately after the example: þat eru góðar árar "those are good
                                            oars".
                                            >
                                          • Blanc Voden
                                            Moreover, In this 4. chapter, after puting forward set of 9 pairs icelandic vovel figures(long,short), Þorodd says one can analyse like in Greek where one
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jul 12, 2006
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                                              Moreover,

                                              In this 4. chapter, after puting forward set of 9 pairs icelandic
                                              vovel figures(long,short), Þorodd says one can analyse like in Greek
                                              where one long letter can be in one figure but one short can be in
                                              an other figure.
                                              epsilon is short but eta is long; o mikron is short but ö mega is
                                              long. Then he follows with similiar runic examples.
                                              One can not skip the initial factors before concluding.
                                              Compairing diffrent Icelandic sets the Greek fashion.

                                              Thanks Uoden.
                                              ey is greater than au so ey is greater than ö.
                                              ö is in au(öí). e is in eí that is also e í/j u.


                                              --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Blanc Voden" <uoden@> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > reyði is female noun: skinned and smoked trout.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > No, the word is 'roeði'. We can tell it must have had this vowel
                                              from
                                              > the fact that it's used in this example as the long equivalent
                                              to 'ø'.
                                              > If you look at the text, you will see that the meaning is
                                              explained
                                              > immediately after the example: þat eru góðar árar "those are good
                                              oars".
                                              >
                                            • llama_nom
                                              Some help from Guðvarður Már Gíslason: Ég hef nú ekki athugað þetta sérstaklega, en mig minnir að o (o+e) hafi ekki verið notað fyrr en á 19.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jul 16, 2006
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                                                Some help from Guðvarður Már Gíslason:

                                                "Ég hef nú ekki athugað þetta sérstaklega, en mig minnir að o (o+e)
                                                hafi ekki verið notað fyrr en á 19. öld, ætli Rask hafi ekki verið sá
                                                fyrsti sem vildi nota það þegar aðgreina átti fónemin æ og o í fornum
                                                textum. Stafurinn er svo stundum notaður í hljóðkerfisgreiningu og
                                                mjög algengur í útgáfum, t.d. Fornritafélagsins. ø með lengdarmerki
                                                (broddi) er líka mikið notaður í hljóðkerfisumfjöllun. Í íslenskum
                                                handritum eru ýmis tákn notuð fyrir þetta hljóð (langt ø-hljóð) en þar
                                                sem það rann saman við æ (langt opið e-hljóð) á 13. öld höfum við ekki
                                                svo miklar heimildir um það. Oft var það skrifað með ø. En Norðmenn
                                                notuðu hins vegar mjög líkan staf, þ.e. o án lykkjunnar að neðan, þ.e.
                                                o með litlum belg uppi til hægri."

                                                "I haven't looked into this particularly, but I seem to recall that
                                                'oe' wasn't used before the 19th c. Could it have been Rask who was
                                                the first to use it when necessary to distinguish between the phonemes
                                                'æ' and 'oe' in old texts? The letter is sometimes used thus when
                                                analysing the vowel system and very common in editions, e.g. those of
                                                the Fornritafélagið. 'ø' with an accute accent to mark length is also
                                                much used in discussions of the vowel system. Various symbols are
                                                used for this sound (long ø-sound) in Icelandic manuscrupts, but where
                                                it fell together with 'æ' (long open e-sound) in the 13th c., we don't
                                                have so many sources of evidence for that. It was often written with
                                                'ø'. The Norwegians, on the other hand, used a very similar letter,
                                                like the oe-ligature but without the lower part of the 'e', that is to
                                                say: an 'o' with a little (closed) loop attached high up on the right
                                                hand side."

                                                (My own translation, so you can blame me for any mistakes in that!)
                                              • Blanc Voden
                                                Hi there, One should not blame other for their endeavours that is the part of debating and can change matter . I know for sure, (recall?) that in the main
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jul 16, 2006
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                                                  Hi there,

                                                  One should not blame other for their endeavours that is the part of debating and can "change matter".

                                                  I know for sure, (recall?)  that in the main Morphological description dedicated to Ólaf HvítaSkáld, we have: "løkr, øgr, þvíat fegra þikkir hljóðaheldr en loekr, oegr."(p.80)

                                                  "oe er hinn fjórði diphtongus í latínu ok er hann eigi í rúnum." (p.78)

                                                  so the sound behind the glyph "oe" was not in the common British basis I reckon.

                                                  Shear'ing is modification we say from "rúnum sauðum" as the core of things.

                                                  "Vísdómstönn"

                                                  "løkr" now spelled "laukur" [löíkur], and "øgr" now spelled "ögur".

                                                  "Laukur" is onion [oníon] and ögur [outstanding] isles [or women nipples].

                                                  loekr is [loíkur] and oekr is [oíkr] that is the reason; understandable by the mother tongues speakers.

                                                  "'Ólafr Hvítaskáld" in the first documentation: "- oe [the loop  is really under o] hefir lykkju af  ái, en hringinn af ói."

                                                  So the ring of oú=ó is o that is easy.  the ljukka must be "j" or the "ee":sound same í.

                                                  He is clearly introducing glyph four "oj" later rejected completely after debating.

                                                  In "Völuspá" Codex Regius [ca. 1270] they use in the script looped from below oe and ee

                                                  or in other words o looped and e looped in word we now use æ [aí].

                                                  "mæran skópu" is in this alphabetic  version "meeran Scopo"

                                                  Is ee (e-looped) as "Mey" is "Meyr" (tender) goes skaldic "Mær".

                                                  "grænum lauki" is groenum lauki:  Are the using oj instead of öj for avoiding redundance?

                                                  About The example; I refer to as itellectual hint.

                                                  rètt kann ræði slíta

                                                  ræsis herr or verri.

                                                  Rightly tholepin may wear out

                                                  Slot's master or dry-rot.

                                                  Icelandic "ei" clyph is natural matching long sound figure for icelandic grant "e"

                                                  "Veir" measurse similiar as "Verr" or "Veir'a" comes before "Verr'a".

                                                  "Veira" is rotten spot in wood and Verra is Verri in nominativus.

                                                  Now you will see the 18 years old Danish/Latin result in loosely rendering:

                                                  Oh! What virginity!

                                                  Milites regii rectos remos

                                                  e mari eripere sciunt.

                                                  Hermenn/Soldiers konunglegir/royal  beinar/straight  árar/oars

                                                  af/by sjónum/the sea slitna/tear out skilja/aware

                                                  The message is:

                                                  The royal soldiers understand that by the sea streight oars tears out.

                                                  Icelandic soldiers have meeker understanding towards Thing as they are Her men or HerMenn.

                                                  There was more than something rotten in the state of Danmark.

                                                  My best Uoden í Auðmeekt as humble. Auðvitað. 

                                                  According to dictionaries at least for 300 year now The Icelandic Nations has rejected the

                                                  teaching of oar being thole.  þóli>þolli "ól" is band and "tól" is tool.


                                                  --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Some help from Guðvarður Már Gíslason:
                                                  >
                                                  > "Ég hef nú ekki athugað þetta sérstaklega, en mig minnir að o (o+e)
                                                  > hafi ekki verið notað fyrr en á 19. öld, ætli Rask hafi ekki verið sá
                                                  > fyrsti sem vildi nota það þegar aðgreina átti fónemin æ og o í fornum
                                                  > textum. Stafurinn er svo stundum notaður í hljóðkerfisgreiningu og
                                                  > mjög algengur í útgáfum, t.d. Fornritafélagsins. ø með lengdarmerki
                                                  > (broddi) er líka mikið notaður í hljóðkerfisumfjöllun. Í íslenskum
                                                  > handritum eru ýmis tákn notuð fyrir þetta hljóð (langt ø-hljóð) en þar
                                                  > sem það rann saman við æ (langt opið e-hljóð) á 13. öld höfum við ekki
                                                  > svo miklar heimildir um það. Oft var það skrifað með ø. En Norðmenn
                                                  > notuðu hins vegar mjög líkan staf, þ.e. o án lykkjunnar að neðan, þ.e.
                                                  > o með litlum belg uppi til hægri."
                                                  >
                                                  > "I haven't looked into this particularly, but I seem to recall that
                                                  > 'oe' wasn't used before the 19th c. Could it have been Rask who was
                                                  > the first to use it when necessary to distinguish between the phonemes
                                                  > 'æ' and 'oe' in old texts? The letter is sometimes used thus when
                                                  > analysing the vowel system and very common in editions, e.g. those of
                                                  > the Fornritafélagið. 'ø' with an accute accent to mark length is also
                                                  > much used in discussions of the vowel system. Various symbols are
                                                  > used for this sound (long ø-sound) in Icelandic manuscrupts, but where
                                                  > it fell together with 'æ' (long open e-sound) in the 13th c., we don't
                                                  > have so many sources of evidence for that. It was often written with
                                                  > 'ø'. The Norwegians, on the other hand, used a very similar letter,
                                                  > like the oe-ligature but without the lower part of the 'e', that is to
                                                  > say: an 'o' with a little (closed) loop attached high up on the right
                                                  > hand side."
                                                  >
                                                  > (My own translation, so you can blame me for any mistakes in that!)
                                                  >
                                                • llama_nom
                                                  And speaking of these arcane matters... I came across some more details about the merging of these one-time phonemes and the various letters and ligatures
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Oct 6, 2006
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                                                    And speaking of these arcane matters... I came across some more
                                                    details about the merging of these one-time phonemes and the various
                                                    letters and ligatures used to represent them in Cleasby / Vigfússon.

                                                    http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_cleasbyvigfusson/b0757.png



                                                    --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Some help from Guðvarður Már Gíslason:
                                                    >
                                                    > "Ég hef nú ekki athugað þetta sérstaklega, en mig minnir að o (o+e)
                                                    > hafi ekki verið notað fyrr en á 19. öld, ætli Rask hafi ekki verið sá
                                                    > fyrsti sem vildi nota það þegar aðgreina átti fónemin æ og o í fornum
                                                    > textum. Stafurinn er svo stundum notaður í hljóðkerfisgreiningu og
                                                    > mjög algengur í útgáfum, t.d. Fornritafélagsins. ø með lengdarmerki
                                                    > (broddi) er líka mikið notaður í hljóðkerfisumfjöllun. Í íslenskum
                                                    > handritum eru ýmis tákn notuð fyrir þetta hljóð (langt ø-hljóð) en þar
                                                    > sem það rann saman við æ (langt opið e-hljóð) á 13. öld höfum við ekki
                                                    > svo miklar heimildir um það. Oft var það skrifað með ø. En Norðmenn
                                                    > notuðu hins vegar mjög líkan staf, þ.e. o án lykkjunnar að neðan, þ.e.
                                                    > o með litlum belg uppi til hægri."
                                                    >
                                                    > "I haven't looked into this particularly, but I seem to recall that
                                                    > 'oe' wasn't used before the 19th c. If I remember rightly, it was
                                                    Rask who was
                                                    > the first to use it when necessary to distinguish between the phonemes
                                                    > 'æ' and 'oe' in old texts. The letter is sometimes used thus when
                                                    > analysing the vowel system and very common in editions, e.g. those of
                                                    > the Fornritafélagið. 'ø' with an accute accent to mark length is also
                                                    > much used in discussions of the vowel system. Various symbols are
                                                    > used for this sound (long ø-sound) in Icelandic manuscrupts, but where
                                                    > it fell together with 'æ' (long open e-sound) in the 13th c., we don't
                                                    > have so many sources of evidence for that. It was often written with
                                                    > 'ø'. The Norwegians, on the other hand, used a very similar letter,
                                                    > like the oe-ligature but without the lower part of the 'e', that is to
                                                    > say: an 'o' with a little (closed) loop attached high up on the right
                                                    > hand side."
                                                    >
                                                    > (My own translation, so you can blame me for any mistakes in that!)
                                                    >
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