Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [norse_course] Miscellanea Section L Subsection (ii)/Translation

Expand Messages
  • Patricia
    Alan, thanks very much, for going to this trouble for me, since I asked you I ve been thoroughly ticked off for saying up at the sharp end in the first
    Message 1 of 127 , Jul 6, 2005
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      
      Alan, thanks very much, for going to this trouble for me, since I asked you I've been thoroughly
      "ticked off" for saying "up at the sharp end" in the first place, your reply certainly merits being made into a copy for inclusion in my notes, it is good to have this much help
      Kveðja
      Patricia
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: AThompson
      Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:25 AM
      Subject: RE: [norse_course] Miscellanea Section L Subsection (ii)/Translation

      Patricia

       

      Nor am I a maritime expert but here´s the OED definition of beak:

       

      beak1

      · n.

      1 a bird’s horny projecting jaws; a bill. Ø a projecting jaw in some other animals.

      2 a projection at the prow of an ancient warship, used to pierce the hulls of enemy ships.

      DERIVATIVES beaked adj. beaky adj.

      ORIGIN ME: from OFr. bec, from L. beccus, of Celtic origin.

       

      And at this site: http://www.d.umn.edu/~ahartley/marhistcitOED.html I found the following citation for brand for the OED.

       

      BRAND sb. new meaning

      1295 in Archaeologia aeliana ser. 4 vol. II (1926) 183 In C de folio argenti ad brand' Galee depingend'..

      trans: for [the purchase of] 100 pieces of silver-leaf for decorating the galley's stem (AHH)

      etym: cf. A. Jal Glossaire nautique (1848-50) s.v. brant: Le cap du navire..; le sommet de son étrave; son éperon.

      trans: the head of the ship..the top of its stem; its beak (AHH)

      Jal quotes Wace's Roman de Rou (c1160):

      Sor li chief de la nef devant

      (le marinier apelent brant)

      trans: over the ship's head forward (which sailors call the brant) (AHH)

      etym: The Norman Fr. word is probably of Scandinav ian origin; cf. ON brandar (pl. of brandr) `ship's beak' in a verse of Rognvald Kali (c1150) cited in E. Gordon An introduction to Old Norse (1957) 156 (AHH)

       

      Zöega cites two other instances of the use of brandr with this apparent mreaning:

       

      fellr brattr breki bröndum hæri, the waves break high above the ‘brandar’

      brandana af knerrinum lét hann setja yfir útidyrr sínar, he had the ship´s beaks placed over his outer door

       

      My guess is that brandr gained this meaning because the ship´s prow, being pointy, was likened to a sword cutting through the billows, or enemy ships

       

      Kveðja

      Alan

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
      Sent:
      Wednesday, 6 July 2005 3:16 AM
      To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [norse_course] Miscellanea Section L Subsection (ii)/Translation

       

      Saell Alan

       

      <branda elg á bylgjur

      <(the) elk of blades on (the) billows>

       

      This Alan I liked very much because it is a kenning, the elk of blades being the ship, but in Gordon they give elgr as an elk and brandr elgr as a beaked ship could that mean that the ship had an elk's head carved as a figure head,  page 341 but on page 336 Gordon gives brandar as parts of the ship's beak and brandr as a brand or blade, it is the use of the phrase the beak of the ship, it is not a term I know, I am no sailor, and only used it because of finding it in Gordon, I have assumed the beak to be up at the pointed end of the vessel where the figure head would be found.

      This is not clear to me even now, and I would appreciate some advice please

      Kveðja

      Patricia

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: AThompson

      Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:40 AM

      Subject: RE: [norse_course] Miscellanea Section L Subsection (ii)/Translation

       

      Sæl

       

      Here is my translation. Comments on others’ translations in separate posts. I too had some difficulties with parts of the verse so I hope some one else can help out here.

       

      Question 1 relates to the two lines: ‘saurs vara vant, er várum, viðr, í Grímsbœ miðjum’ Firstly I have to question whether this text from Gordon is accurate because in Gordon´s own glossary, the phrase ’saurs eigi vant viðr’, cross referenced to the lines in question, is glossed as ’there was no lack of mud.’ Somehow, ’vara’ has replaced ’eiga.’ I searched the web but could not find an on-line text of Orkneyinga saga to see which version was correct. Can anyone say what the correct text should be? And then provide an explanation?

       

      Question 2 relates to the words: ’Nú'r þat's...’ can someone say precisely what this expression means and how the syntax works? Is it a common expression?

       

      Kveðja

      Alan

       

      Þá var Kali fimtán vetra er hann fór með kaupmönnum vestr til Englands, ok hafði góðan kaupeyri.

      Then was Kali fifteen winters (old) when he travelled with traders west to England, and had good wares [acc sg] (for trade).

       

      Þeir heldu til  þess kaupstaðar er Grímsbœr heitir.

      They held (course) to that trading town which is called Grimsby.

       

      Kom þar mikit fjölmenni bæði af Nóregi ok Orkneyjum, af Skotlandi ok Suðreyjum.

      Came there a great gathering of men both from Norway and (the) Orkneys, from Scotland and (the) Southern Isles (Outer Hebrides).

       

      Eptir þat fór Kali vestan á hinu sama skipi ok  kómu útan at Ögðum ok heldu þaðan til Björgynjar.

      After that, Kali travelled from the west on that same ship and came from without (ie reached land) at Agðir and held (course) from there to Bergen.

       

      Þá  kvað hann vísu:

      Then composed he a verse:

       

      'Vér höfum vaðnar leirur

      ’We have waded mud-flats

       

       vikur fimm megingrimmar;

      (for) five  terrible weeks;

       

      saurs vara vant, er várum,

      (one) expects [?] a lack of mud, when (we) were,

       

      viðr, í Grímsbœ miðjum.

      with, in (the) middle of Grimsby.

       

      Nú'r þat's más of mýrar

      Now when there is [?] over (the) gull´s moor

       

      meginkátliga látum

      most joyfully (we) let

       

      branda elg á bylgjur

      (the) elk of blades on (the) billows

       

      Björgynjar til dynja.'

      to Bergen roar.’

       

      Transposed: For five terrible weeks, we have waded mud-flats, (there was) [no] lack of mud when we were in the middle of Grimsby; Now it is that, most joyfully, over the gull’s moor, we let the elk of blades roar across the billows to Bergen.

       

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      AThompson
      Sent:
      Friday, 1 July 2005 7:33 PM
      To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [norse_course] Miscellanea Section L Subsection (i)

       

      Sæl

       

      This week we continue Section L from Gordon´s Miscellanea. As mentioned last week, the text is from Orkneyinga saga, Subsection (iii) will follow next week.

       

      Kveðja

      Alan

       

      Verses by Earl Rögnvald Kali

      (ii) Rögnvald at Grimsby

      Þá var Kali fimtán vetra er hann fór með kaupmönnum  vestr til Englands, ok hafði góðan kaupeyri. Þeir heldu til  þess kaupstaðar er Grímsbœr heitir. Kom þar mikit fjöl-  menni bæði af Nóregi ok Orkneyjum, af Skotlandi ok Suðreyjum. Eptir þat fór Kali vestan á hinu sama skipi ok  kómu útan at Ögðum ok heldu þaðan til Björgynjar. Þá  kvað hann vísu:

      'Vér höfum vaðnar leirur 

      vikur fimm megingrimmar;

      saurs vara vant, er várum,

      viðr, í Grímsbœ miðjum. 

      Nú'r þat's más of mýrar

      meginkátliga látum 

      branda elg á bylgjur 

      Björgynjar til dynja.'


       





      A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

      Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

      To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

      norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






      A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

      Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

      To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

      norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






      A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

      Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

      To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

      norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



      --
      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date:
      18/03/2005

       

      --
      No virus found in this outgoing message.
      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date:
      7/04/2005

       

      --
      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date:
      7/04/2005


      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

    • Patricia
      What is next, the same names, see if that would not cause confusion, I have just ordered the third editions of parts two and three, for the extra text etc, and
      Message 127 of 127 , Oct 15, 2005
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        What is next, the same names, see if that would not cause confusion, I have just ordered the third editions of parts two and three, for the extra text etc, and hope to get them shortly.
        I have my name down for the re-publishing ot the Cleasby Vigfusson Job -  from the OUP but I have to think of a better excuse other than sheer self-indulgence.
        BTW, do you know anyone else who reads a dictionary and traces here and there like a person stepping on the stepping stones, I am minded of a Wiccan Ritual - "From a word I am led to a Word and from a Deed to another Deed", you can never have too many books, so your dwelling be on good foundations
        Patricia
        I hotly deny it - it is untrue I have never sunk a building with my books It is a lie
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: llama_nom
        Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 7:16 PM
        Subject: [norse_course] Re: New person saying hello

        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
        <originalpatricia@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Anthony Faulkes' "A New Introduction to Old Norse" [
        > http://www.shef.ac.uk/viking-society/ ], comes in three volumes:
        > grammar, reader and glossary.  Some other websites for beginners
        > Excuse me LN, this is not strictly correct, Michael Barnes is
        responsible for Compiling the Grammar, Anthony Faulkes worked on the
        Reader and the Index, I have twice recommended the books under these
        names, trust me, I have the said books in front of me.
        > Patricia

        Yes, you're right, Patricia, of course.  I recently got a flyer from
        the Viking Society advertising the 3rd editions of the reader and
        glossary (Maybe you did too?).  I think that's what led me astray. 
        Well, that's my excuse anyway.  Sulks: why can't everyone just have
        the same name.  Save ourselves a lot of confusion...

        Llama Nom



      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.