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help with runes?

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  • Fred and Grace Hatton
    My husband has made me a lovely wooden bowl and would like to carve runes in the Younger Futhark around the edge. I thought these lines from the Havamal would
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 27, 2005
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      My husband has made me a lovely wooden bowl and would like to carve
      runes in the Younger Futhark around the edge.

      I thought these lines from the Havamal would be nice, but I need help
      turning it into runes. I never know where the capital R form goes
      instead of the other "r" form. Do I use R at the ends of the following
      two words?

      Mildir frœknir
      menn bazt lifa
      sjaldan sút ala

      Also which rune do I use for the œ? Do I only use one "n" for menn?
      Am guessing I need to use "i" for the j in sjaldan?

      Then I want to add:
      þisar runar rist Frid - - guessing that would be the closest to his
      name. Again I have the same problem of not knowing which "r" to use.
      Worse yet, do I double the "r" at the beginning and end of runar or
      should there be only one "r" at the end of þisar and begining of runar
      and at the end of runar and beginning of rist - - þ i s a R u n a R i s t???

      Thanks in advance!
      Grace



      Fred & Grace Hatton
      Hawley, Pa.
    • Nefandus
      Hello! The R is used, as far as I know, at the end of the words. Yes, it should be sialdan for sjaldan . Yes, nn is given as n . Þisar:runar or
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 28, 2005
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        Hello!

        The 'R' is used, as far as I know, at the end of the words.

        Yes, it should be 'sialdan' for 'sjaldan'.

        Yes, 'nn' is given as 'n'. 'Þisar:runar' or 'þisarunar', I believe both
        can be seen, best use the latter one...

        For 'æ' write following rune: 'I' as staff and a stroke through the
        middle from downside left rising up to the right. Should be nearly the
        half the length of the staff.

        Please realize, that the language in the time of the younger Futhark
        differed from what now is known as Old Icelandic. If you go into reading
        runic inscriptions you´ll see, that the language was far less
        standardized than what you can see in modern editions (this is true for
        the manuscripts too).
        Hence you´ll normally encounter some problems transferring normalized
        Old Norse into runic inscriptions. But don´t worry there are lot´s of
        failures in the inscriptions too. So your inscription might be as bad as
        the original ones :-D ...

        Greetings
        Stephan

        --
        "Why? Why am I punished? I`ve led an innocent life ..."

        "Thou art a child of nature.
        Thou shalt know that it art a crime to murder thy mother.
        Yet, I hear her skriek in horror ... "
      • llama_nom
        Hi Grace, Later inscriptions use in all circumstances, after the older came to be pronounced the same. There are a some examples here:
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Hi Grace,

          Later inscriptions use <r> in all circumstances, after the older <R>
          came to be pronounced the same. There are a some examples here:

          http://www.arild-hauge.com/eindex.htm

          But if you want to match the earlier practice:

          MildiR frœkniR...
          þisaR runaR raist

          (with optional divisions between words)

          At the beginning of a word, it's always <r>. At the end of a word,
          it's <r> in a few words: móðir, faðir, bróðir, systir; also in
          certain prepositions: OIc. 'eptir' appears on the 5th c. Tune stone
          as 'after', but later inscriptions have 'eftiR' & 'æftiR'). Where
          r/R is part of the root it could be either -- that´s the time to
          look up Gothic cognates... Otherwise, in inflexional endings,
          usually <R> (e.g. in the nominative singular ending, in nominative &
          accusative plurals, genitive singualars, verbal inflexions;
          þrimR "three" preserves the old dative plural once general in
          adjectives; pronouns þiR, miR) -- except that at some point, it
          began to be pronounced and spelt <r> after a dental consonant, e.g.
          Knutr.

          I'm not sure how the <œ> would be. I wonder if there are any
          examples from Elder Futhark insriptions of a later time. The Proto
          Norse inscriptions in the Elder Futhark had no need of this sound.
          A later Younger F. inscription fromn Sweden (Husby-Lyhundra) has
          <y>: bryþr = brœðr.

          Llama Nom




          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Fred and Grace Hatton
          <hatton@m...> wrote:
          > My husband has made me a lovely wooden bowl and would like to
          carve
          > runes in the Younger Futhark around the edge.
          >
          > I thought these lines from the Havamal would be nice, but I need
          help
          > turning it into runes. I never know where the capital R form goes
          > instead of the other "r" form. Do I use R at the ends of the
          following
          > two words?
          >
          > Mildir frœknir
          > menn bazt lifa
          > sjaldan sút ala
          >
          > Also which rune do I use for the œ? Do I only use one "n" for menn?
          > Am guessing I need to use "i" for the j in sjaldan?
          >
          > Then I want to add:
          > þisar runar rist Frid - - guessing that would be the closest to
          his
          > name. Again I have the same problem of not knowing which "r" to
          use.
          > Worse yet, do I double the "r" at the beginning and end of runar
          or
          > should there be only one "r" at the end of þisar and begining of
          runar
          > and at the end of runar and beginning of rist - - þ i s a R u n a
          R i s t???
          >
          > Thanks in advance!
          > Grace
          >
          >
          >
          > Fred & Grace Hatton
          > Hawley, Pa.
        • Nefandus
          Nefandus schrieb: Hello! The R is used, as far as I know, at the end of the words. Oooops, Llama nom was right, it should be r in the middle ages - also
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
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            Nefandus schrieb:
            Hello!
            
            The 'R' is used, as far as I know, at the end of the words.
            
              
            Oooops, Llama nom was right, it should be 'r' in the middle ages - also what is the r-Rune anyway. The rune for 'R' denotes an 'y'.
            I also forgot to tell you that I meant the futhark of the middle ages. If you want to project it into older times, than, of course, you need to use another futhark. :-D Anyway, you would probably have to change the language too. The language of the middle ages is as closest to old norse as it can be, since old islandic is jo the language of the middle ages, just standardized.

            Sorry if I confused somebody. I assumed that you meant the medieval runes ...

            Regards
            Stephan

            -- 
            "Why? Why am I punished? I`ve led an innocent life ..."
             
            "Thou art a child of nature.
             Thou shalt know that it art a crime to murder thy mother.
             Yet, I hear her skriek in horror ... "
             
            
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