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Fw: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)

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  • Patricia
    Saell Fernando I tried to send the attached last night, and what the Hel went wrong I do not know, so I ll send it again, I am keen to correct properly what
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 8, 2005
      Saell Fernando
      I tried to send the attached last night, and what the Hel went wrong I do not know, so I'll send it again, I am keen to correct properly what appeared to be in error, such is the problem with accepting someone's well intended help, the notes I was given definitely say "Draupnir" but neither can I find a chapter number for it
      Kveðja
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Patricia
      Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)

      Saell Fernando
      First mentioned in Ch.62 is Dragvandil (slicer) a gift from Arinbjorn who had it from Egil's Brother Thorolf, Who had the sword from Grim his father, who had been given it by Egil's Uncle Thorolf, who had received it from Grim hairycheeks, whose father was Ketil Haeng.
      But chapter 68 we have a verse'
       
      I bared blue Dragvandill,
       Who bit not the buckler,
        Atli the Short so blunted
       All edge by his spells.
       Straining my strength I grappled,
       Staggered the wordy foeman;
         My tooth I bade bite him,
         Best of swords at need.'
      this refers to Egil using (yes) his teeth to kill Atli, now they called Egil Berserker, but I'm inclined to see more of Ulvhednar in this act
      As for Draupnir, I found it in some notes I was given, and whereas I would not want to insult the person who wanted to help me with the notes, I am now inclined to think that a mistake was made there..
      Now Egil had a short sword called Adder, more of a long knife really, and he used Dragvandil and Adder in one fight, with success, I am unsure but the time he fought Ljot the pale, to save Fridgeir's sister from a fate worse than death, that must have been Dragvandil, for he sliced off Ljot's leg, tib, fib, and knee-cap with one stroke.
      If Draupnir means Dripper, perhaps there is the connection with Adder, for an adders fangs drip venom as a sword will drip blood, that might be the making of a kenning.
      Oh my Gods, it is 23:53  and I have to go to sleep and dream of this, I'm for finding my copy of the Hobbit, so g'night you guys
      Kveðja
      Patricia
      I am inclined now to think of Draupnir perhaps  (only) to have been a reference to the Gold rings given to him (Egil) by one of the Kings and the notes I was given were mis-copied


       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)

      Saell Patricia, Xeon ok Llama,
       
      As for Draupnr, it is very curious to find it as a sword name, as it is the name of the ring which Odinn put in Balder's funeral pyre. Both Snorri's and the Poetic Edda attest this, and made it very clear that it was a golden ring from which every ninth night nine oher rings dripped. Thus the ON name Draupnir is believed to mean 'the dripper'.
      It is also a dwarves name in the Thulur, which contrasted with the ring which produces more rings and the fact that dwarves ars good  goldsmiths seems to have something to do with smithing rather  than slicing.
       
      Interesting re-use of the myth in the saga.
       
      Which chapter is it in?
       
      Cheers
       
       
      Fernando Guerrero
      Centre for Medieval Studies
      University of York, King's Manor
      Y01 7EP, York
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Patricia
      Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)

      Saell Xeon, Llama,
      Please will you note the possibility of my having made an error, in offering Dragvandil - Slicer as Egil's sword because in a copy of the Saga of Egil Skallagrimsson I have found a "Draupnir"  and that too is translated as slicer, I so do not wish to spoil your work by offering an incorrect name, I am pointing this out now rather than you find this later, when it might be too late to correct, you would want to take the word you feel is best ??
      Kveðja
      Patricia
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: xeon_ies
      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:05 PM
      Subject: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)


      Thanks a lot for your help, Llama! I must think of some way to
      "beautify" these names as they seem kind of awkward to the average
      reader, though.

      By the way, Ull's hall is called Ydalir and it translates to "Yew
      Dales". What are Yews and Dales? Is it some kind of magical morning
      dew or water droplet etc.?

      Thanks!
      Xeon.


      >
      > Hi Xeon,
      >
      > "Heiti" (poetic names) for bows:
      >
      > Almr, dalr, bogi, (elm, dale, bow)
      > ýr ok tvíviðr, (yew and two-wood)
      > sveigr, glær ok þrymr, (bent, sea?, stretch?)
      > sómr, skálgelmir. (honour/fitness, bowl-?)
      >
      > "Stinger" might be 'biti' or 'bítr', but these seem to be prefered
      > for sword names.  I don't know if there's a different word
      > for "arch" that doen't mean "bow" as well, but 'bogi' seems to cover
      > both.  'Dalr' must be from the curved shape of a valley, and perhaps
      > by extension other curved things.  I've read one theory about the
      > name Heimdallr that relates it to this, in the sense of "horn"--and
      > in Hervarar saga, the Huns are said to have horn-bows.  So maybe
      > that's the connection.  Sveigr is related to the verb sveigja "bend
      > [a bow]".  Skál is a bowl--could that be a reference to the bow's
      > curved shape too?
      >
      > 1) bogi/dalr/sveigr inn mikli (inn stóri).
      > 2) undrbiti
      > 3) biti inn efsti
      >
      > I don't know what -gelmir is.  It occurs in a lot of mythological
      > names.  'Gellr' means "shrieks, twangs" (gjalla "to shriek/twang")
      > and is the word used for the noise of a bowstring, so maybe you
      > could include that as one element: Undrgjalli, or something like
      > that.  Careful though: as we found out recently the Icelandic Hobbit
      > translates Gollum as Gollnir!
      >
      > Not sure what 'sea' has to do with bows.  Could there be a
      > connection with similar words for "glistening, splendour"
      > and "amber"?
      >
      > Llama Nom
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "xeon_ies" <xeon@x> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Llama!
      > >
      > > I've decided to adopt the names Dugvandill and Harmbrenna for the
      > > sword names.
      > > And one more thing in which I'm thinking of giving a name to Ull's
      > bow
      > > too. :-D
      > >
      > > What does the following words translates to?
      > >
      > > 1) "The Great Arch"
      > > 2) "Wonderous Stinger"
      > > 3) "Final stinger"
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Xeon.





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