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Re: Pet names in old norse

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  • llama_nom
    There is a thread here on Old Norse Net about horse names: http://lists.mun.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0411b&L=onn#11 Llama Nom ... I rather
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 8 7:06 PM
      There is a thread here on Old Norse Net about horse names:

      http://lists.mun.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind0411b&L=onn#11

      Llama Nom


      --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
      <originalpatricia@y...> wrote:
      > http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/Names.htm
      >
      > Names of All sorts, you have to dig around and use the links but
      I rather
      > like it, someone seems to have done a bit of research here.
      > Patricia
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Melissa Sheppard" <shepald13@y...>
      > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:21 PM
      > Subject: [norse_course] Pet names in old norse
      >
      >
      > >
      > > I came across the name Sam given for a pet dog in
      > > Njals Saga. I am curious whether anyone knows of any
      > > other names for pets that were used in Old Norse writings.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > __________________________________
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    • Sarah Bowen
      Hi there! Finally I can get back to you about með landi and síðan . Firstly, apologies. I got the wrong end of the stick about með landi . Here is
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 12, 2005
        Hi there!
         
        Finally I can get back to you about "með landi" and "síðan".
         
        Firstly, apologies.  I got the wrong end of the stick about "með landi".  Here is the explanation my lecturer gives:
         
        you wanted to know about Hann ferr nú síðan suðr með landi in Audunar thattr. Literally, as you know, thie means 'He goes now afterwards south with land', i.e. he follows the coast south. If Audun were on land (we know he's not), the phrase would still work gramatically, but would it make any useful sense? The 'land' goes in all directions, and wouldn't be a feature that he would naturally follow. He might follow a headland, for example (með nesi), or some other geographical feature: he might well follow the sea(-coast) (með sævi). I can't see how fara með landi could work if he were travelling by land, and I certainly don't recall seeing it anywhere.  The phrase we have in Audun is not uncommon and always occurs (as far as I know) during descriptions of sea-voyages.
         
        And here is what he says about "síðan"
         
        I've never seen "síðan" used spatially, and I'm quite confident in stating that it's a purely
        temporal adverb, used to link sequences of events one after another. 'Afterwards' is an
        adequate and indeed normal gloss for it, although we'd most commonly render it with
        'then'. 'Subsequently' is a bit flowery, but might also do. Something that establishes a
        temporal sequence, anyway. 'Nu' (accent on the u!) is here part of the style - immediacy
        of the colloquial present tense - rather than actually contributing to the ordering of the
        narrative's events.

        Hope this helps.
        Cheers,
        Sarah.
         
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: llama_nom
        Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:25 AM
        Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með landi" along the coast?



        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Great!  Many thanks for this.  I shall discuss this with him and
        let you know!  Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this
        group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)


        Hi Sarah,

        Careful though, I could well be getting confused...  But if you get
        a chance, could you also query síðan = "further"?  I can't find that
        meaning in Zoega, only "afterwards", "since", etc.  The nearest I
        can find in Cleasby & Vigsusson is: lengi síðan "for a long time
        after".  But I can't see any spatial meanings.  Gwyn Jones just
        has "He now proceeded south along the coast".

        If you have access to "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" Revised
        throughout by Dorothy Whitlock, there's an interesting note in there
        pp. 229-230, on Ohthere's use of "eastweard" when he seem to mean
        south: "this agrees with Old Norse usage: the south coast of Norway
        from Lindesnes to Oslo Fjord was known as _austr í Vík_, and
        voyagers travelling there, even from the north, speak of going
        east."  (Though judging by Auðun they could add "south" as well.)

        Apparently _í Vík austr_ can also be used just to mean position,
        without movement:

        Haraldr hét einn hersir ríkr ok ágætr í Vík austr
        (Gríms saga loðinkinna)

        ...which I suppose is a bit like _vestur þar í fjörðum_ in the very
        first line of Auðun.

        Llama Nom



        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Great!  Many thanks for this.  I shall discuss this with him and
        let you know!  Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this
        group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)
        >
        > Kveðja,
        > Sarah.
        >   ----- Original Message -----
        >   From: llama_nom
        >   To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
        >   Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 AM
        >   Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með
        landi" along the coast?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >   > Like you, I thought "með landi" meant following the coast but
        >   apparently here it is "by land" or "over land".  If someone can
        give
        >   me a convincing argument that this is incorrect, please do and
        I´ll
        >   discuss it with my lecturer :-)
        >
        >
        >   Hi Sarah,
        >
        >   Do you (or your lecturer!) have any examples of it meaning "by
        >   land"?  I just typed the phrase into Google, and found plenty of
        >   quotes where it seems to be "[by sea] along the coast".  Here's
        one
        >   with the verb _fara_:
        >
        >   En er Haraldr konungr varð þessa tíðinda víss, þá dró hann her
        saman
        >   ok skaut skipum á vatn; bjósk síðan með lið mikit ok ferr með
        landi
        >   suðr... (Haralds saga ins Hárfagra, 36)
        >
        >   Harald is on his way to fight a sea battle.  I suppose it
        doesn't
        >   actually state that he is on board, but I found plenty more with
        >   _sigla_ and other nautical verbs & contexts.  Cleasy & Vigfusson
        >   have "sail along the shore" for: sigla með landi.  Also Gwyn
        Jones
        >   has "south along the coast" at this point in his translation
        >   of "Audun and the Bear".  And by sea might be a more sensible
        way to
        >   travel in medieval Norway...  But I wonder if "með landi" could
        >   theoretically also mean "[by land] along the coast", in the
        right
        >   context?  Or could it describle position with no
        motion: "situated
        >   along the coast" (e.g. a cliff, or hills)?  At Joshua 13,3, the
        >   Icelandic Bible uses the phrase of a river, running along the
        border
        >   of a country: frá Síhór, sem rennur fram með Egyptalandi að
        >   austanverðu, til landamæra Ekron í norðri - það telst með landi
        >   Kanaaníta...
        >
        >   Llama Nom
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >   A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
        >
        >   Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
        >
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      • Patricia
        Great Sarah, thanks for that and for the time you spend for us Patricia ... From: Sarah Bowen To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12,
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 12, 2005
          Great Sarah, thanks for that and for the time you spend for us
          Patricia
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 4:10 PM
          Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með landi" along the coast?

          Hi there!
           
          Finally I can get back to you about "með landi" and "síðan".
           
          Firstly, apologies.  I got the wrong end of the stick about "með landi".  Here is the explanation my lecturer gives:
           
          you wanted to know about Hann ferr nú síðan suðr með landi in Audunar thattr. Literally, as you know, thie means 'He goes now afterwards south with land', i.e. he follows the coast south. If Audun were on land (we know he's not), the phrase would still work gramatically, but would it make any useful sense? The 'land' goes in all directions, and wouldn't be a feature that he would naturally follow. He might follow a headland, for example (með nesi), or some other geographical feature: he might well follow the sea(-coast) (með sævi). I can't see how fara með landi could work if he were travelling by land, and I certainly don't recall seeing it anywhere.  The phrase we have in Audun is not uncommon and always occurs (as far as I know) during descriptions of sea-voyages.
           
          And here is what he says about "síðan"
           
          I've never seen "síðan" used spatially, and I'm quite confident in stating that it's a purely
          temporal adverb, used to link sequences of events one after another. 'Afterwards' is an
          adequate and indeed normal gloss for it, although we'd most commonly render it with
          'then'. 'Subsequently' is a bit flowery, but might also do. Something that establishes a
          temporal sequence, anyway. 'Nu' (accent on the u!) is here part of the style - immediacy
          of the colloquial present tense - rather than actually contributing to the ordering of the
          narrative's events.

          Hope this helps.
          Cheers,
          Sarah.
           
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: llama_nom
          Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:25 AM
          Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með landi" along the coast?



          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@n...>
          wrote:
          > Great!  Many thanks for this.  I shall discuss this with him and
          let you know!  Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this
          group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)


          Hi Sarah,

          Careful though, I could well be getting confused...  But if you get
          a chance, could you also query síðan = "further"?  I can't find that
          meaning in Zoega, only "afterwards", "since", etc.  The nearest I
          can find in Cleasby & Vigsusson is: lengi síðan "for a long time
          after".  But I can't see any spatial meanings.  Gwyn Jones just
          has "He now proceeded south along the coast".

          If you have access to "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" Revised
          throughout by Dorothy Whitlock, there's an interesting note in there
          pp. 229-230, on Ohthere's use of "eastweard" when he seem to mean
          south: "this agrees with Old Norse usage: the south coast of Norway
          from Lindesnes to Oslo Fjord was known as _austr í Vík_, and
          voyagers travelling there, even from the north, speak of going
          east."  (Though judging by Auðun they could add "south" as well.)

          Apparently _í Vík austr_ can also be used just to mean position,
          without movement:

          Haraldr hét einn hersir ríkr ok ágætr í Vík austr
          (Gríms saga loðinkinna)

          ...which I suppose is a bit like _vestur þar í fjörðum_ in the very
          first line of Auðun.

          Llama Nom



          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@n...>
          wrote:
          > Great!  Many thanks for this.  I shall discuss this with him and
          let you know!  Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this
          group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)
          >
          > Kveðja,
          > Sarah.
          >   ----- Original Message -----
          >   From: llama_nom
          >   To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
          >   Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 AM
          >   Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með
          landi" along the coast?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >   > Like you, I thought "með landi" meant following the coast but
          >   apparently here it is "by land" or "over land".  If someone can
          give
          >   me a convincing argument that this is incorrect, please do and
          I´ll
          >   discuss it with my lecturer :-)
          >
          >
          >   Hi Sarah,
          >
          >   Do you (or your lecturer!) have any examples of it meaning "by
          >   land"?  I just typed the phrase into Google, and found plenty of
          >   quotes where it seems to be "[by sea] along the coast".  Here's
          one
          >   with the verb _fara_:
          >
          >   En er Haraldr konungr varð þessa tíðinda víss, þá dró hann her
          saman
          >   ok skaut skipum á vatn; bjósk síðan með lið mikit ok ferr með
          landi
          >   suðr... (Haralds saga ins Hárfagra, 36)
          >
          >   Harald is on his way to fight a sea battle.  I suppose it
          doesn't
          >   actually state that he is on board, but I found plenty more with
          >   _sigla_ and other nautical verbs & contexts.  Cleasy & Vigfusson
          >   have "sail along the shore" for: sigla með landi.  Also Gwyn
          Jones
          >   has "south along the coast" at this point in his translation
          >   of "Audun and the Bear".  And by sea might be a more sensible
          way to
          >   travel in medieval Norway...  But I wonder if "með landi" could
          >   theoretically also mean "[by land] along the coast", in the
          right
          >   context?  Or could it describle position with no
          motion: "situated
          >   along the coast" (e.g. a cliff, or hills)?  At Joshua 13,3, the
          >   Icelandic Bible uses the phrase of a river, running along the
          border
          >   of a country: frá Síhór, sem rennur fram með Egyptalandi að
          >   austanverðu, til landamæra Ekron í norðri - það telst með landi
          >   Kanaaníta...
          >
          >   Llama Nom
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >   A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
          >
          >   Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
          >
          >   To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
          >
          >   norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >               ADVERTISEMENT
          >             
          >       
          >       
          >
          >
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----------
          >   Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/
          >      
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          >      
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          Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

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        • llama_nom
          Thanks Sarah! That s great. It may have been a misunderstanding, but I for one have learnt plenty from puzzling about it. Interesting your lecturer s comment
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 14, 2005
            Thanks Sarah!

            That's great. It may have been a misunderstanding, but I for one
            have learnt plenty from puzzling about it. Interesting your
            lecturer's comment about the two words for "coast" depending on
            which side you're on: með sævi/landi.

            Uh oh, here's a curious & gruesome example of síðan from the tale of
            Ragnar's Sons (look away now!):

            Létu þeir nú rista örn á baki Ellu ok skera síðan rifin öll frá
            hrygginum með sverði, svá at þar váru lungun út dregin.

            Now they had the "eagle" cut in Ella's back and then had all the
            ribs severed from his spine with a sword, so that his lungs were
            pulled out there.

            I don't know what the experts make of this, but I always thought the
            blood-eagle *was* the pulling out of the lungs. But this suggests
            it referred to some preliminary marking or flaying action. Hmmm...

            Llama Nom




            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@n...>
            wrote:
            > Hi there!
            >
            > Finally I can get back to you about "með landi" and "síðan".
            >
            > Firstly, apologies. I got the wrong end of the stick about "með
            landi". Here is the explanation my lecturer gives:
            >
            > you wanted to know about Hann ferr nú síðan suðr með landi in
            Audunar thattr. Literally, as you know, thie means 'He goes now
            afterwards south with land', i.e. he follows the coast south. If
            Audun were on land (we know he's not), the phrase would still work
            gramatically, but would it make any useful sense? The 'land' goes in
            all directions, and wouldn't be a feature that he would naturally
            follow. He might follow a headland, for example (með nesi), or some
            other geographical feature: he might well follow the sea(-coast)
            (með sævi). I can't see how fara með landi could work if he were
            travelling by land, and I certainly don't recall seeing it
            anywhere. The phrase we have in Audun is not uncommon and always
            occurs (as far as I know) during descriptions of sea-voyages.
            >
            > And here is what he says about "síðan"
            >
            > I've never seen "síðan" used spatially, and I'm quite confident in
            stating that it's a purely
            > temporal adverb, used to link sequences of events one after
            another. 'Afterwards' is an
            > adequate and indeed normal gloss for it, although we'd most
            commonly render it with
            > 'then'. 'Subsequently' is a bit flowery, but might also do.
            Something that establishes a
            > temporal sequence, anyway. 'Nu' (accent on the u!) is here part of
            the style - immediacy
            > of the colloquial present tense - rather than actually
            contributing to the ordering of the
            > narrative's events.
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            > Cheers,
            > Sarah.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: llama_nom
            > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:25 AM
            > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback Patricia: "með
            landi" along the coast?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen"
            <sarahbowen@n...>
            > wrote:
            > > Great! Many thanks for this. I shall discuss this with him
            and
            > let you know! Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in
            this
            > group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)
            >
            >
            > Hi Sarah,
            >
            > Careful though, I could well be getting confused... But if you
            get
            > a chance, could you also query síðan = "further"? I can't find
            that
            > meaning in Zoega, only "afterwards", "since", etc. The nearest
            I
            > can find in Cleasby & Vigsusson is: lengi síðan "for a long time
            > after". But I can't see any spatial meanings. Gwyn Jones just
            > has "He now proceeded south along the coast".
            >
            > If you have access to "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" Revised
            > throughout by Dorothy Whitlock, there's an interesting note in
            there
            > pp. 229-230, on Ohthere's use of "eastweard" when he seem to
            mean
            > south: "this agrees with Old Norse usage: the south coast of
            Norway
            > from Lindesnes to Oslo Fjord was known as _austr í Vík_, and
            > voyagers travelling there, even from the north, speak of going
            > east." (Though judging by Auðun they could add "south" as well.)
            >
            > Apparently _í Vík austr_ can also be used just to mean position,
            > without movement:
            >
            > Haraldr hét einn hersir ríkr ok ágætr í Vík austr
            > (Gríms saga loðinkinna)
            >
            > ...which I suppose is a bit like _vestur þar í fjörðum_ in the
            very
            > first line of Auðun.
            >
            > Llama Nom
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen"
            <sarahbowen@n...>
            > wrote:
            > > Great! Many thanks for this. I shall discuss this with him
            and
            > let you know! Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in
            this
            > group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)
            > >
            > > Kveðja,
            > > Sarah.
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: llama_nom
            > > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20 AM
            > > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback
            Patricia: "með
            > landi" along the coast?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > > Like you, I thought "með landi" meant following the coast
            but
            > > apparently here it is "by land" or "over land". If someone
            can
            > give
            > > me a convincing argument that this is incorrect, please do
            and
            > I´ll
            > > discuss it with my lecturer :-)
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Sarah,
            > >
            > > Do you (or your lecturer!) have any examples of it
            meaning "by
            > > land"? I just typed the phrase into Google, and found
            plenty of
            > > quotes where it seems to be "[by sea] along the coast".
            Here's
            > one
            > > with the verb _fara_:
            > >
            > > En er Haraldr konungr varð þessa tíðinda víss, þá dró hann
            her
            > saman
            > > ok skaut skipum á vatn; bjósk síðan með lið mikit ok ferr
            með
            > landi
            > > suðr... (Haralds saga ins Hárfagra, 36)
            > >
            > > Harald is on his way to fight a sea battle. I suppose it
            > doesn't
            > > actually state that he is on board, but I found plenty more
            with
            > > _sigla_ and other nautical verbs & contexts. Cleasy &
            Vigfusson
            > > have "sail along the shore" for: sigla með landi. Also Gwyn
            > Jones
            > > has "south along the coast" at this point in his translation
            > > of "Audun and the Bear". And by sea might be a more
            sensible
            > way to
            > > travel in medieval Norway... But I wonder if "með landi"
            could
            > > theoretically also mean "[by land] along the coast", in the
            > right
            > > context? Or could it describle position with no
            > motion: "situated
            > > along the coast" (e.g. a cliff, or hills)? At Joshua 13,3,
            the
            > > Icelandic Bible uses the phrase of a river, running along
            the
            > border
            > > of a country: frá Síhór, sem rennur fram með Egyptalandi að
            > > austanverðu, til landamæra Ekron í norðri - það telst með
            landi
            > > Kanaaníta...
            > >
            > > Llama Nom
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
            > >
            > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            > >
            > > To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
            > >
            > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > -----------
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/
            > >
            > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            Terms
            > of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
            >
            > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            >
            > To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
            >
            > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date:
            10/01/2005
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