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*namnu dagô wikôn - nöfn vikudaganna

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  • akoddsson
    Heilir góðir nemendr! Greetings good students! I ma not sure when Germanic folk first picked up the habit of naming the days of the 7-day week as they do,
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 13, 2004
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      Heilir góðir nemendr!
      Greetings good students!

      I ma not sure when Germanic folk first picked up the habit of naming
      the days of the 7-day week as they do, nor for that matter whether
      there were 7 days or not in earlier editions of the Germanic week,
      but the custom is generally considered to be quite old. In view of
      this, some early norse versions could prove interesting to some of
      you. The asteriks mean that the forms can be reconstructed, but are
      not actually found written or heard spoken as such. These following
      are all standard for Proto-Norse (here shown from +/- 300-400AD), an
      era during which the language is thought to have been quite stable
      and conservative. The Old Norse forms are also shown for comparison
      and a few issues pointed out.

      *sunnôn dagaz - sunnudagr (sunnu + dagr)
      *mânôn dagaz - mánadagr (mána + dagr)
      *tîwas dagaz - týsdagr (týs + dagr)
      *wôdanas dagaz - óðinsdagr (óðins + dagr)
      *þunras dagaz - þórsdagr (þórs + dagr)
      *frijôz dagaz - friggjardagr (friggjar + dagr)
      *laugôz dagaz - laugardagr (laugar + dagr)

      The first 4 are considered unproblematic, except for the dating of
      the generalization of -an over -ôn for all masculine n-stems, which
      effects only *manôn dagaz. *þunras dagaz could also be *þonras dagaz
      - it depends on whether the a-mutation of u (making it o) occurred
      before or after loss of the nasal (n). Old English has þunres dæg,
      for comparison, and Old English almost always matches Old Norse when
      it comes to a-mutation, whereas other Germanic languages differ very
      widely in this respect. I chose friggjardagr over frjádagr because I
      think it is more original. Faroese has friggjardagr, which is quite
      specific, whereas frjádagr is more generic (and problematic). The
      last one, *laugôz dagaz, could be specific to Old Norse, which also
      has laugar-aptann, laugar-kveld, and laugar-nátt, showing that the
      use is probably quite old. I thought some of you might enjoy seeing
      something on this topic.

      Regards,
      Konrad
    • Haukur Thorgeirsson
      Sæll, Konni! I think we should be careful in drawing conclusions from the Faroese form fríggjadagur . The gg need not be original but may be an example of
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 14, 2004
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        Sæll, Konni!

        I think we should be careful in drawing conclusions
        from the Faroese form 'fríggjadagur'. The 'gg' need
        not be original but may be an example of the Faroese
        'sharpening'.

        I see Þorsteinn Vilhjálmsson, a physics professor here
        at the university, insists it must have been 'Freyjudagr'.
        His evidence, however, seems insufficient. It may not have
        been as 'obvious' in the time the names were adapted that
        Venus should correspond to Freyja rather than Frigg.

        http://visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=4452

        Kveðja,
        Haukur


        > Heilir góðir nemendr!
        > Greetings good students!
        >
        > I ma not sure when Germanic folk first picked up the habit of naming
        > the days of the 7-day week as they do, nor for that matter whether
        > there were 7 days or not in earlier editions of the Germanic week,
        > but the custom is generally considered to be quite old. In view of
        > this, some early norse versions could prove interesting to some of
        > you. The asteriks mean that the forms can be reconstructed, but are
        > not actually found written or heard spoken as such. These following
        > are all standard for Proto-Norse (here shown from +/- 300-400AD), an
        > era during which the language is thought to have been quite stable
        > and conservative. The Old Norse forms are also shown for comparison
        > and a few issues pointed out.
        >
        > *sunnôn dagaz - sunnudagr (sunnu + dagr)
        > *mânôn dagaz - mánadagr (mána + dagr)
        > *tîwas dagaz - týsdagr (týs + dagr)
        > *wôdanas dagaz - óðinsdagr (óðins + dagr)
        > *þunras dagaz - þórsdagr (þórs + dagr)
        > *frijôz dagaz - friggjardagr (friggjar + dagr)
        > *laugôz dagaz - laugardagr (laugar + dagr)
        >
        > The first 4 are considered unproblematic, except for the dating of
        > the generalization of -an over -ôn for all masculine n-stems, which
        > effects only *manôn dagaz. *þunras dagaz could also be *þonras dagaz
        > - it depends on whether the a-mutation of u (making it o) occurred
        > before or after loss of the nasal (n). Old English has þunres dæg,
        > for comparison, and Old English almost always matches Old Norse when
        > it comes to a-mutation, whereas other Germanic languages differ very
        > widely in this respect. I chose friggjardagr over frjádagr because I
        > think it is more original. Faroese has friggjardagr, which is quite
        > specific, whereas frjádagr is more generic (and problematic). The
        > last one, *laugôz dagaz, could be specific to Old Norse, which also
        > has laugar-aptann, laugar-kveld, and laugar-nátt, showing that the
        > use is probably quite old. I thought some of you might enjoy seeing
        > something on this topic.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Konrad
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
        >
        > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
        >
        > To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
        >
        > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • lucyjane.michel@free.fr
        Thanks, Konrad, It s always good to learn more about this, - it s always rather fascinated me! Lucy-Jane
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 14, 2004
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          Thanks, Konrad,

          It's always good to learn more about this, - it's always rather fascinated me!

          Lucy-Jane

          > Heilir góðir nemendr!
          > Greetings good students!
          >
          > I ma not sure when Germanic folk first picked up the habit of naming
          > the days of the 7-day week as they do, nor for that matter whether
          > there were 7 days or not in earlier editions of the Germanic week,
          > but the custom is generally considered to be quite old. In view of
          > this, some early norse versions could prove interesting to some of
          > you. The asteriks mean that the forms can be reconstructed, but are
          > not actually found written or heard spoken as such. These following
          > are all standard for Proto-Norse (here shown from +/- 300-400AD), an
          > era during which the language is thought to have been quite stable
          > and conservative. The Old Norse forms are also shown for comparison
          > and a few issues pointed out.
          >
          > *sunnôn dagaz - sunnudagr (sunnu + dagr)
          > *mânôn dagaz - mánadagr (mána + dagr)
          > *tîwas dagaz - týsdagr (týs + dagr)
          > *wôdanas dagaz - óðinsdagr (óðins + dagr)
          > *þunras dagaz - þórsdagr (þórs + dagr)
          > *frijôz dagaz - friggjardagr (friggjar + dagr)
          > *laugôz dagaz - laugardagr (laugar + dagr)
          >
          > The first 4 are considered unproblematic, except for the dating of
          > the generalization of -an over -ôn for all masculine n-stems, which
          > effects only *manôn dagaz. *þunras dagaz could also be *þonras dagaz
          > - it depends on whether the a-mutation of u (making it o) occurred
          > before or after loss of the nasal (n). Old English has þunres dæg,
          > for comparison, and Old English almost always matches Old Norse when
          > it comes to a-mutation, whereas other Germanic languages differ very
          > widely in this respect. I chose friggjardagr over frjádagr because I
          > think it is more original. Faroese has friggjardagr, which is quite
          > specific, whereas frjádagr is more generic (and problematic). The
          > last one, *laugôz dagaz, could be specific to Old Norse, which also
          > has laugar-aptann, laugar-kveld, and laugar-nátt, showing that the
          > use is probably quite old. I thought some of you might enjoy seeing
          > something on this topic.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Konrad
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
          >
          > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
          >
          > To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
          >
          > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • akoddsson
          Sæll Hauksi! ... I see your point. Perhaps frjádagr is both safer and more correct. ... I doubt if germanic folk, especially the more isolated nordic ones,
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 17, 2004
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            Sæll Hauksi!

            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Haukur Thorgeirsson"
            <haukurth@h...> wrote:
            > Sæll, Konni!
            >
            > I think we should be careful in drawing conclusions
            > from the Faroese form 'fríggjadagur'. The 'gg' need
            > not be original but may be an example of the Faroese
            > 'sharpening'.

            I see your point. Perhaps frjádagr is both safer and more correct.

            > I see Þorsteinn Vilhjálmsson, a physics professor here
            > at the university, insists it must have been 'Freyjudagr'.
            > His evidence, however, seems insufficient. It may not have
            > been as 'obvious' in the time the names were adapted that
            > Venus should correspond to Freyja rather than Frigg.
            >
            > http://visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=4452

            I doubt if germanic folk, especially the more isolated nordic ones,
            understood the supposed relationship between Venus and Freyja. There
            was a Proto-Norse verb *frijôn (ON frjá 'to love') and there could
            have been a corresponding noun from which the dayname was formed. In
            ON we also see frjá-aptann, frjá-kveld, frjánótt, which would indeed
            seem to support a formation in frjá-....so, I grant that frjádagr is
            likely correct, even for the 10th century, especially in view of the
            Faroese sharpening. frjádagr could simply be understood by us today
            as fertility-day/love-day or the like, being for the pair Freyr and
            Freyja. However, Frigg literally means the 'beloved' (from PN *friju
            compare PN verb *frijôn and ON frjá cited above) - thus, the day of
            love would seem most correct, being the day of Frigg. Ironically, it
            would make *friggjardagr appropriate, though historically incorrect.
            The question then would be from what noun was frjádagr formed? If it
            were an n-stem we might have ended up with **frjúdagr (compare, for
            instance, sunnudagr from *sunnôn dagaz), rendering **frijô frijôn an
            unlikely declension. Could it have been a stem-formation? Or perhaps
            a neuter n-stem (compare auga auga from *augô *augô *augan *augan)
            with compensatory lengthening? Hmmmm, regardless, it seems safe to
            assume that germanics had their own understanding of these names and
            that they may not even have been the same even throughout Germania.
            But at least the PN folk probably understood the day as the day of
            love and the day of *friju. We should keep in mind that the dayname
            need not have been formed literally from the name *friju to have had
            such a connection. Language is a complicated animal ;) In Sanskrit,
            we see prîyâ in the meaning 'love', rendering changes in the basic
            meaning of *frijôn-frjá very unlikely. If frjádagr is correct, as it
            appears to be, then at least we know the basic meaning and with whom
            to associate the day in mythic terms: Frigg - the safest bet ;)

            Kveðja,
            Konni



            > Kveðja,
            > Haukur
            >
            >
            > > Heilir góðir nemendr!
            > > Greetings good students!
            > >
            > > I ma not sure when Germanic folk first picked up the habit of
            naming
            > > the days of the 7-day week as they do, nor for that matter
            whether
            > > there were 7 days or not in earlier editions of the Germanic
            week,
            > > but the custom is generally considered to be quite old. In view
            of
            > > this, some early norse versions could prove interesting to some
            of
            > > you. The asteriks mean that the forms can be reconstructed, but
            are
            > > not actually found written or heard spoken as such. These
            following
            > > are all standard for Proto-Norse (here shown from +/- 300-
            400AD), an
            > > era during which the language is thought to have been quite
            stable
            > > and conservative. The Old Norse forms are also shown for
            comparison
            > > and a few issues pointed out.
            > >
            > > *sunnôn dagaz - sunnudagr (sunnu + dagr)
            > > *mânôn dagaz - mánadagr (mána + dagr)
            > > *tîwas dagaz - týsdagr (týs + dagr)
            > > *wôdanas dagaz - óðinsdagr (óðins + dagr)
            > > *þunras dagaz - þórsdagr (þórs + dagr)
            > > *frijôz dagaz - friggjardagr (friggjar + dagr)
            > > *laugôz dagaz - laugardagr (laugar + dagr)
            > >
            > > The first 4 are considered unproblematic, except for the dating
            of
            > > the generalization of -an over -ôn for all masculine n-stems,
            which
            > > effects only *manôn dagaz. *þunras dagaz could also be *þonras
            dagaz
            > > - it depends on whether the a-mutation of u (making it o)
            occurred
            > > before or after loss of the nasal (n). Old English has þunres
            dæg,
            > > for comparison, and Old English almost always matches Old Norse
            when
            > > it comes to a-mutation, whereas other Germanic languages differ
            very
            > > widely in this respect. I chose friggjardagr over frjádagr
            because I
            > > think it is more original. Faroese has friggjardagr, which is
            quite
            > > specific, whereas frjádagr is more generic (and problematic). The
            > > last one, *laugôz dagaz, could be specific to Old Norse, which
            also
            > > has laugar-aptann, laugar-kveld, and laugar-nátt, showing that
            the
            > > use is probably quite old. I thought some of you might enjoy
            seeing
            > > something on this topic.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Konrad
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
            > >
            > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            > >
            > > To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:
            > >
            > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
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