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Re: Another translation...

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  • Dirk Howat
    ... really ... wondering ... How about: vita sjálfur
    Message 1 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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      --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Tenpenny <josh@c...>
      wrote:
      > I feel bad asking, but I'm just starting out with Old Norse, and a
      > friend asked me how to say "know thyself". It'll be ages till I
      really
      > get much beyond "Óláfr heitir konungr. Hann á brand." so I was
      wondering
      > if anyone could help me out.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > -- Joshua



      How about:

      vita sjálfur
    • Dirk Howat
      ... How about: vita sjálfr
      Message 2 of 12 , May 3, 2004
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        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com,how to say "know thyself".



        How about:

        vita sjálfr
      • Berglaug Ásmundardóttir
        modern icelandic version would be þekktu sjálfan þig which can be said þekk þú sjálfan þig in modern icelandic kenna means to teach. it had a
        Message 3 of 12 , May 4, 2004
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          modern icelandic version would be 'þekktu sjálfan þig' which can be said
          'þekk þú sjálfan þig'

          in modern icelandic kenna means to teach. it had a broader meaning in old
          norse, true, but it could mean to teach, to know apart, or to recognize...
          þekkja meant to recognize too. i think you could, as such, use either, but
          judging from Lexicon Poeticum, i'd say using the verb þekkja would be less
          easy to misunderstand... and for the record, vita just isn't as wide a word
          as is the english know. know is a very wide word, it means a lot of things
          which we differentiate between. vita only means to know, as in the sense of
          having knowlege of or about a subject.

          i'd guess 'þekk sjálfa(n ) þik' or 'kenn sjálfa(n) þik', but neither looks
          all that good to me... (of course, that sentence doesn't look good in any
          language other than greek, but that may just be my opinion)

          i'd like to see what our lord and master haukur says about this...

          berglaug
        • sjuler
          I don t think [at] vita sjálfr is an appropriate translation for [to] know thyself . Personally, I interpret [at] vita sjálfr in the same way as I
          Message 4 of 12 , May 4, 2004
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            I don't think "[at] vita sjálfr" is an appropriate translation
            for "[to] know thyself". Personally, I interpret "[at] vita sjálfr"
            in the same way as I interpret the Modern Swedish "[att] veta själv",
            i.e. as "[to] know by yourself". Since ModSwe translates "[to] know
            thyself" as "[att] känna dig själv", I propose that Old Norse
            has "[at] kenna þik sjálfan/sjálfa" (acc. masc./fem.). Don't take
            this proposal as a truth, though!

            (Note: By looking at ModSwe, I draw the conclusion that the
            imperative of "at kenna" is "Kenn!" - "Know thyself!" would then
            be "Kenn þik sjálfa[n]!")

            So, why not buy Robert Larson's book "Känn dig själv" -
            http://www.larsonforlag.se/bokhtm/kanndig.htm - ? It will be released
            in June this year! (This is not a serious advertisment for the book)




            /Sjuler



            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Dirk Howat" <dirk_howat@h...>
            wrote:
            > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com,how to say "know thyself".
            >
            >
            >
            > How about:
            >
            > vita sjálfr
          • LoreKeeper@comcast.net
            Out of curiosity, knowing how much Scotland was influenced by the Norse, is the modern Scottish slang ken for know directly linked to at kenna ? I would
            Message 5 of 12 , May 5, 2004
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              Out of curiosity, knowing how much Scotland was influenced by the Norse, is the modern Scottish slang "ken" for "know" directly linked to "at kenna"? I would figure so.
              ~Reanna McFadden

              > I don't think "[at] vita sj�lfr" is an appropriate translation
              > for "[to] know thyself". Personally, I interpret "[at] vita sj�lfr"
              > in the same way as I interpret the Modern Swedish "[att] veta sj�lv",
              > i.e. as "[to] know by yourself". Since ModSwe translates "[to] know
              > thyself" as "[att] k�nna dig sj�lv", I propose that Old Norse
              > has "[at] kenna �ik sj�lfan/sj�lfa" (acc. masc./fem.). Don't take
              > this proposal as a truth, though!
              >
              > (Note: By looking at ModSwe, I draw the conclusion that the
              > imperative of "at kenna" is "Kenn!" - "Know thyself!" would then
              > be "Kenn �ik sj�lfa[n]!")
              >
              > So, why not buy Robert Larson's book "K�nn dig sj�lv" -
              > http://www.larsonforlag.se/bokhtm/kanndig.htm - ? It will be released
              > in June this year! (This is not a serious advertisment for the book)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > /Sjuler
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • sjuler
              I see. Modern Icelandic kenna (=teach) seems to be related to the Swedish word kännesven (=student) - a bit unusual word, though, but comprehensible for
              Message 6 of 12 , May 5, 2004
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                I see. Modern Icelandic 'kenna' (=teach) seems to be related to the
                Swedish word 'kännesven' (=student) - a bit unusual word, though, but
                comprehensible for most swedes. I biblical context, 'att känna' often
                means 'to teach' (at least not in the most modern version).


                /Sjuler



                > modern icelandic version would be 'þekktu sjálfan þig' which can be
                said
                > 'þekk þú sjálfan þig'
                >
                > in modern icelandic kenna means to teach. it had a broader meaning
                in old
                > norse, true, but it could mean to teach, to know apart, or to
                recognize...
                > þekkja meant to recognize too. i think you could, as such, use
                either, but
                > judging from Lexicon Poeticum, i'd say using the verb þekkja would
                be less
                > easy to misunderstand... and for the record, vita just isn't as
                wide a word
                > as is the english know. know is a very wide word, it means a lot of
                things
                > which we differentiate between. vita only means to know, as in the
                sense of
                > having knowlege of or about a subject.
                >
                > i'd guess 'þekk sjálfa(n ) þik' or 'kenn sjálfa(n) þik', but
                neither looks
                > all that good to me... (of course, that sentence doesn't look good
                in any
                > language other than greek, but that may just be my opinion)
                >
                > i'd like to see what our lord and master haukur says about this...
                >
                > berglaug
              • Joshua Tenpenny
                ... I agree with you here! I know it was an odd little request. I was actually very pleasantly surprised when Grace pointed out the line in Hrafnkell - at sá
                Message 7 of 12 , May 5, 2004
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                  berglaug wrote:
                  >i'd guess 'þekk sjálfa(n ) þik' or 'kenn sjálfa(n) þik', but
                  > neither looks all that good to me... (of course, that sentence doesn't look good
                  > in anylanguage other than greek, but that may just be my opinion)

                  I agree with you here! I know it was an odd little request. I was
                  actually very pleasantly surprised when Grace pointed out the line in
                  Hrafnkell - "at sá er svinnr, er sik kann" - that seems to get the
                  point across without being awkward or ambiguous. That is more important
                  to me than having something more literal.

                  Thank you all for your help.

                  -- Joshua
                • Berglaug Ásmundardóttir
                  ah... kunna, not kenna, whole dufferent story :) kenna has lost its know meaning, but kunna hasn t, although it s still not the same thing as vita kunna
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 6, 2004
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                    ah... kunna, not kenna, whole dufferent story :) kenna has lost its 'know'
                    meaning, but kunna hasn't, although it's still not the same thing as vita

                    kunna means to know how to, kunna við means like, or be content with, and
                    kunna sig means to be polite

                    so if the sentence you had were put into modern icelandic, sá er spakur sem
                    sig kann, it'd mean 'he is wise(well, actually, complacent, nowadays, spakur
                    changed meaning too) who knows how to behave'... but kunna could in old
                    icelandic mean understand, know apart, have knowlege of , to be able to or
                    to be content with something... so i'm not saying it doesn't mean 'he who
                    knows himself is wise'... it just made a word-joke in my head :p

                    berglaug
                  • gary finch
                    Your e a canny one Reanna and here s the proof from a site about Standard English words which have a Scandinavian Etymology
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 6, 2004
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                      Your'e a canny one Reanna and here's the proof from a site about Standard English words which have a Scandinavian Etymology http://viking.no/e/england/e-viking_words_1.htm#A 
                       
                       
                      ken (vb, n)  To know. From the same root as cunning. Swe k�nna, Dan kiende (to know). Found mainly in Scottish dialects now.

                      LoreKeeper@... wrote:
                      Out of curiosity, knowing how much Scotland was influenced by the Norse, is the modern Scottish slang "ken" for "know" directly linked to "at kenna"? I would figure so.
                      ~Reanna McFadden


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