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RE: [norse_course] Pronounciation

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  • Jamie Fessenden
    I ve heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by British Ring of Troth members as Ah-sah-true (i.e., two long a s, pronounced sort of
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 29 6:38 AM
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      I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by
      British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
      pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the word
      "true"). The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
      that they placed the accent on the first syllable. This makes sense,
      since it is a combination of two words: "asa" (gods) and "tru" (true).

      If anyone else knows better, please correct me.

      Jamie



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Twm Ffresiar [mailto:maboniii@...]
      Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:33 PM
      To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation


      Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
      it's the conflict of several people who think they
      know what they're talking about.

      Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
      wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
      knowledgable individuals would know the proper
      pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."

      I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
      up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
      "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?

      Thanks for addressing this,

      Tom
    • Heiðrún Bergsdóttir
      The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced Aw-sah-troo. Heiðrún ... From: Twm Ffresiar To:
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 29 8:11 AM
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        The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced Aw-sah-troo.

        Heiðrún

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
        To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
        Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation


        Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
        it's the conflict of several people who think they
        know what they're talking about.

        Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
        wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
        knowledgable individuals would know the proper
        pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."

        I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
        up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
        "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?

        Thanks for addressing this,

        Tom

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        Sumir hafa kvæði...
        ...aðrir spakmæli.

        - Keth

        Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

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      • Lazarus
        I know I should be using IPA standards, but I m still not used to them yet. Anyway, since so few can read them, I m posting it this way for American English
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 29 8:57 PM
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          I know I should be using IPA standards, but I'm still not used to them yet.
          Anyway, since so few can read them, I'm posting it this way for American
          English speakers:

          Ás - pronounced '-ouse' as in 'house' and 'mouse', first syllable is
          stressed
          a - not a long vowel. more like the /e/ in 'her'
          trú - just like the word 'true'
          ar - again like the word 'her', but with the slightest 'ah' sounded

          Try saying - 'HOUSE'-'eh'-'true'-'har' faster and faster until it comes out
          as one word.
          There is no accent on any other syllable than the first, and you should
          notice that it's hard to not stress the first syllable when it's pronounced
          that way.

          This is only for the Icelandic word 'Ásatrúar' because, as far as I know,
          there is no such word in Old Norse, even though it may be linguistically
          correct. We've had onlist discussions about this in the past.

          On the other hand, as a few Icelanders have been keen to point out, if we're
          going to practice in America, we might as well have our own pronunciation
          for it as well, because we won't be actually practicing the Icelandic
          version anyway (more than likely).

          We turned 'Yeshua' into 'Jesus' and that seems to work pretty well for a lot
          of people.

          -Lazarus

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Heiðrún Bergsdóttir" <heidur2@...>
          To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:11 AM
          Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation


          > The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced
          Aw-sah-troo.
          >
          > Heiðrún
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
          > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
          > Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation
          >
          >
          > Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
          > it's the conflict of several people who think they
          > know what they're talking about.
          >
          > Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
          > wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
          > knowledgable individuals would know the proper
          > pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."
          >
          > I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
          > up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
          > "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?
          >
          > Thanks for addressing this,
          >
          > Tom
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
          > http://games.yahoo.com/
          >
          >
          > Sumir hafa kvæði...
          > ...aðrir spakmæli.
          >
          > - Keth
          >
          > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Sumir hafa kvæði...
          > ...aðrir spakmæli.
          >
          > - Keth
          >
          > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Twm Ffresiar
          It would be like a regional dialect, in your opinion? Pronouncing it like Vinns/Americans. That would occur anyways, in my opinion, if ever anything like O.N.
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 30 4:31 PM
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            It would be like a regional dialect, in your opinion?
            Pronouncing it like Vinns/Americans. That would occur
            anyways, in my opinion, if ever anything like O.N. was
            revived for common use.

            Tom


            --- Lazarus <lazarus@...> wrote:
            > I know I should be using IPA standards, but I'm
            > still not used to them yet.
            > Anyway, since so few can read them, I'm posting it
            > this way for American
            > English speakers:
            >
            > �s - pronounced '-ouse' as in 'house' and 'mouse',
            > first syllable is
            > stressed
            > a - not a long vowel. more like the /e/ in 'her'
            > tr� - just like the word 'true'
            > ar - again like the word 'her', but with the
            > slightest 'ah' sounded
            >
            > Try saying - 'HOUSE'-'eh'-'true'-'har' faster and
            > faster until it comes out
            > as one word.
            > There is no accent on any other syllable than the
            > first, and you should
            > notice that it's hard to not stress the first
            > syllable when it's pronounced
            > that way.
            >
            > This is only for the Icelandic word '�satr�ar'
            > because, as far as I know,
            > there is no such word in Old Norse, even though it
            > may be linguistically
            > correct. We've had onlist discussions about this in
            > the past.
            >
            > On the other hand, as a few Icelanders have been
            > keen to point out, if we're
            > going to practice in America, we might as well have
            > our own pronunciation
            > for it as well, because we won't be actually
            > practicing the Icelandic
            > version anyway (more than likely).
            >
            > We turned 'Yeshua' into 'Jesus' and that seems to
            > work pretty well for a lot
            > of people.
            >
            > -Lazarus
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Hei�r�n Bergsd�ttir" <heidur2@...>
            > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:11 AM
            > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
            >
            >
            > > The word is spelled �satr� in Icelandic, and so
            > its pronounced
            > Aw-sah-troo.
            > >
            > > Hei�r�n
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
            > > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
            > > Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation
            > >
            > >
            > > Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
            > > it's the conflict of several people who think they
            > > know what they're talking about.
            > >
            > > Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
            > > wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
            > > knowledgable individuals would know the proper
            > > pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."
            > >
            > > I was under the impression, and I may have just
            > picked
            > > up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded
            > like
            > > "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain
            > exceptions?
            > >
            > > Thanks for addressing this,
            > >
            > > Tom
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and
            > more
            > > http://games.yahoo.com/
            > >
            > >
            > > Sumir hafa kv��i...
            > > ...a�rir spakm�li.
            > >
            > > - Keth
            > >
            > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Sumir hafa kv��i...
            > > ...a�rir spakm�li.
            > >
            > > - Keth
            > >
            > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >


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          • Haukur Thorgeirsson
            ... That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation (of a word that was not used back then). In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel
            Message 5 of 11 , May 29, 2002
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              > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by
              > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
              > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the word
              > "true").

              That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
              (of a word that was not used back then).

              In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
              been much different, however. It would have been something
              like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
              close to the vowel in French 'dans'.

              In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
              to the one in English 'house'.

              The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
              any century.



              > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
              > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.

              The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.

              Kveðja,
              Haukur
            • Jamie Fessenden
              So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what the pronounciation was in the 12th century? Jamie
              Message 6 of 11 , May 29, 2002
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                So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what the
                pronounciation was in the 12th century?

                Jamie


                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                >
                > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given
                > by
                > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
                > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the
                > word
                > > "true").
                >
                > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                > (of a word that was not used back then).
                >
                > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                > been much different, however. It would have been something
                > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                >
                > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                > to the one in English 'house'.
                >
                > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                > any century.
                >
                >
                >
                > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                >
                > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                >
                > Kveðja,
                > Haukur
                >
                > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                >
                > - Keth
                >
                > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
              • hfroelandshagen
                The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a s, which would produce something similar to English aw in law . As for changes in pronunciation in general,
                Message 7 of 11 , May 30, 2002
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                  The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a's, which would
                  produce something similar to English aw in "law". As for changes in
                  pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                  respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                  and Icelandic. As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                  consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                  there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.


                  Havard

                  --- In norse_course@y..., "Jamie Fessenden" <jfessenden@a...> wrote:
                  > So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what
                  the
                  > pronounciation was in the 12th century?
                  >
                  > Jamie
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@h...]
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                  > > To: norse_course@y...
                  > > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                  > >
                  > > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures
                  given
                  > > by
                  > > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long
                  a's,
                  > > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in
                  the
                  > > word
                  > > > "true").
                  > >
                  > > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                  > > (of a word that was not used back then).
                  > >
                  > > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                  > > been much different, however. It would have been something
                  > > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                  > > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                  > >
                  > > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                  > > to the one in English 'house'.
                  > >
                  > > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                  > > any century.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                  > > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                  > >
                  > > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                  > >
                  > > Kveðja,
                  > > Haukur
                  > >
                  > > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                  > > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                  > >
                  > > - Keth
                  > >
                  > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                  > > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > norse_course-unsubscribe@y...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service
                  > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  > >
                • Jamie Fessenden
                  Okay. Thanks! Jamie
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 31, 2002
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                    Okay. Thanks!

                    Jamie

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: hfroelandshagen [mailto:g-tegle@...]
                    > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:57 PM
                    > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Pronounciation
                    >
                    >
                    > The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a's, which would
                    > produce something similar to English aw in "law". As for changes in
                    > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                    > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                    > and Icelandic. As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                    > consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                    > there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.
                    >
                    >
                    > Havard
                    >
                    > --- In norse_course@y..., "Jamie Fessenden" <jfessenden@a...> wrote:
                    > > So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what
                    > the
                    > > pronounciation was in the 12th century?
                    > >
                    > > Jamie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@h...]
                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                    > > > To: norse_course@y...
                    > > > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                    > > >
                    > > > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures
                    > given
                    > > > by
                    > > > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long
                    > a's,
                    > > > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in
                    > the
                    > > > word
                    > > > > "true").
                    > > >
                    > > > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                    > > > (of a word that was not used back then).
                    > > >
                    > > > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                    > > > been much different, however. It would have been something
                    > > > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                    > > > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                    > > >
                    > > > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                    > > > to the one in English 'house'.
                    > > >
                    > > > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                    > > > any century.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                    > > > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                    > > >
                    > > > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                    > > >
                    > > > Kveðja,
                    > > > Haukur
                    > > >
                    > > > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                    > > > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                    > > >
                    > > > - Keth
                    > > >
                    > > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                    > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                    > > > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                    > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/> >
                    > > >
                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > norse_course-unsubscribe@y...
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service
                    > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                    > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                    >
                    > - Keth
                    >
                    > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                    > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    >
                  • Haukur Thorgeirsson
                    ... That s certainly an oversimplification - but it is true that Icelandic, Faroese and the mainland Scandinavian dialects have preserved different parts of
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 1, 2002
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                      > As for changes in
                      > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                      > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                      > and Icelandic.

                      That's certainly an oversimplification - but it is true that Icelandic,
                      Faroese and the mainland Scandinavian dialects have preserved different
                      parts of the "original" pronunciation.


                      > As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                      > consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                      > there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.

                      Not 'close to' but 'exactly the same'. As for Norwegian pronunciation
                      (from what I've read of Norwegian ON grammar books) it seems you use
                      a pronunciation based on a mixture of "what's correct" and "what's
                      easy for us to pronounce".

                      Kveðja,
                      Haukur
                    • szavost
                      ... this ... Norwegian ... But don t some Nynorsk and Bokmaal speakers use the French [R], and uhm then there s also the change from [u] to the sound that i
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 29, 2002
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                        --- In norse_course@y..., Haukur Thorgeirsson <haukurth@h...> wrote:
                        > > As for changes in
                        > > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in
                        this
                        > > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining
                        Norwegian
                        > > and Icelandic.


                        But don't some Nynorsk and Bokmaal speakers use the French [R], and
                        uhm then there's also the change from [u] to the sound that i dunno
                        really how to transcribe (similar in swedish)?
                        nicky
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