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Pronounciation

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  • Twm Ffresiar
    Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly it s the conflict of several people who think they know what they re talking about. Since there are a great
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 25, 2002
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      Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
      it's the conflict of several people who think they
      know what they're talking about.

      Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
      wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
      knowledgable individuals would know the proper
      pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."

      I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
      up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
      "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?

      Thanks for addressing this,

      Tom

      __________________________________________________
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    • Jamie Fessenden
      I ve heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by British Ring of Troth members as Ah-sah-true (i.e., two long a s, pronounced sort of
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 29, 2002
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        I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by
        British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
        pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the word
        "true"). The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
        that they placed the accent on the first syllable. This makes sense,
        since it is a combination of two words: "asa" (gods) and "tru" (true).

        If anyone else knows better, please correct me.

        Jamie



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Twm Ffresiar [mailto:maboniii@...]
        Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:33 PM
        To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation


        Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
        it's the conflict of several people who think they
        know what they're talking about.

        Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
        wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
        knowledgable individuals would know the proper
        pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."

        I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
        up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
        "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?

        Thanks for addressing this,

        Tom
      • Heiðrún Bergsdóttir
        The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced Aw-sah-troo. Heiðrún ... From: Twm Ffresiar To:
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 29, 2002
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          The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced Aw-sah-troo.

          Heiðrún

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
          To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
          Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation


          Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
          it's the conflict of several people who think they
          know what they're talking about.

          Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
          wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
          knowledgable individuals would know the proper
          pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."

          I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
          up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
          "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?

          Thanks for addressing this,

          Tom

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
          http://games.yahoo.com/


          Sumir hafa kvæði...
          ...aðrir spakmæli.

          - Keth

          Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Lazarus
          I know I should be using IPA standards, but I m still not used to them yet. Anyway, since so few can read them, I m posting it this way for American English
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 29, 2002
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            I know I should be using IPA standards, but I'm still not used to them yet.
            Anyway, since so few can read them, I'm posting it this way for American
            English speakers:

            Ás - pronounced '-ouse' as in 'house' and 'mouse', first syllable is
            stressed
            a - not a long vowel. more like the /e/ in 'her'
            trú - just like the word 'true'
            ar - again like the word 'her', but with the slightest 'ah' sounded

            Try saying - 'HOUSE'-'eh'-'true'-'har' faster and faster until it comes out
            as one word.
            There is no accent on any other syllable than the first, and you should
            notice that it's hard to not stress the first syllable when it's pronounced
            that way.

            This is only for the Icelandic word 'Ásatrúar' because, as far as I know,
            there is no such word in Old Norse, even though it may be linguistically
            correct. We've had onlist discussions about this in the past.

            On the other hand, as a few Icelanders have been keen to point out, if we're
            going to practice in America, we might as well have our own pronunciation
            for it as well, because we won't be actually practicing the Icelandic
            version anyway (more than likely).

            We turned 'Yeshua' into 'Jesus' and that seems to work pretty well for a lot
            of people.

            -Lazarus

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Heiðrún Bergsdóttir" <heidur2@...>
            To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:11 AM
            Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation


            > The word is spelled Ásatrú in Icelandic, and so its pronounced
            Aw-sah-troo.
            >
            > Heiðrún
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
            > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
            > Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation
            >
            >
            > Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
            > it's the conflict of several people who think they
            > know what they're talking about.
            >
            > Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
            > wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
            > knowledgable individuals would know the proper
            > pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."
            >
            > I was under the impression, and I may have just picked
            > up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded like
            > "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain exceptions?
            >
            > Thanks for addressing this,
            >
            > Tom
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
            > http://games.yahoo.com/
            >
            >
            > Sumir hafa kvæði...
            > ...aðrir spakmæli.
            >
            > - Keth
            >
            > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sumir hafa kvæði...
            > ...aðrir spakmæli.
            >
            > - Keth
            >
            > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Twm Ffresiar
            It would be like a regional dialect, in your opinion? Pronouncing it like Vinns/Americans. That would occur anyways, in my opinion, if ever anything like O.N.
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 30, 2002
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              It would be like a regional dialect, in your opinion?
              Pronouncing it like Vinns/Americans. That would occur
              anyways, in my opinion, if ever anything like O.N. was
              revived for common use.

              Tom


              --- Lazarus <lazarus@...> wrote:
              > I know I should be using IPA standards, but I'm
              > still not used to them yet.
              > Anyway, since so few can read them, I'm posting it
              > this way for American
              > English speakers:
              >
              > �s - pronounced '-ouse' as in 'house' and 'mouse',
              > first syllable is
              > stressed
              > a - not a long vowel. more like the /e/ in 'her'
              > tr� - just like the word 'true'
              > ar - again like the word 'her', but with the
              > slightest 'ah' sounded
              >
              > Try saying - 'HOUSE'-'eh'-'true'-'har' faster and
              > faster until it comes out
              > as one word.
              > There is no accent on any other syllable than the
              > first, and you should
              > notice that it's hard to not stress the first
              > syllable when it's pronounced
              > that way.
              >
              > This is only for the Icelandic word '�satr�ar'
              > because, as far as I know,
              > there is no such word in Old Norse, even though it
              > may be linguistically
              > correct. We've had onlist discussions about this in
              > the past.
              >
              > On the other hand, as a few Icelanders have been
              > keen to point out, if we're
              > going to practice in America, we might as well have
              > our own pronunciation
              > for it as well, because we won't be actually
              > practicing the Icelandic
              > version anyway (more than likely).
              >
              > We turned 'Yeshua' into 'Jesus' and that seems to
              > work pretty well for a lot
              > of people.
              >
              > -Lazarus
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Hei�r�n Bergsd�ttir" <heidur2@...>
              > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:11 AM
              > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
              >
              >
              > > The word is spelled �satr� in Icelandic, and so
              > its pronounced
              > Aw-sah-troo.
              > >
              > > Hei�r�n
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Twm Ffresiar" <maboniii@...>
              > > To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:32 AM
              > > Subject: [norse_course] Pronounciation
              > >
              > >
              > > Something lately has been driving me crazy. Mostly
              > > it's the conflict of several people who think they
              > > know what they're talking about.
              > >
              > > Since there are a great many Asatruar here, I was
              > > wondering if the list owners, and possibly other
              > > knowledgable individuals would know the proper
              > > pronunciation of the work "Asatru" and "Asatruar."
              > >
              > > I was under the impression, and I may have just
              > picked
              > > up a bad habit somewhere, that the "A" sounded
              > like
              > > "Ahh"...am I wrong? Or are there certain
              > exceptions?
              > >
              > > Thanks for addressing this,
              > >
              > > Tom
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and
              > more
              > > http://games.yahoo.com/
              > >
              > >
              > > Sumir hafa kv��i...
              > > ...a�rir spakm�li.
              > >
              > > - Keth
              > >
              > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Sumir hafa kv��i...
              > > ...a�rir spakm�li.
              > >
              > > - Keth
              > >
              > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >


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            • Haukur Thorgeirsson
              ... That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation (of a word that was not used back then). In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel
              Message 6 of 11 , May 29, 2002
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                > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given by
                > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
                > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the word
                > "true").

                That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                (of a word that was not used back then).

                In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                been much different, however. It would have been something
                like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                close to the vowel in French 'dans'.

                In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                to the one in English 'house'.

                The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                any century.



                > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.

                The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.

                Kveðja,
                Haukur
              • Jamie Fessenden
                So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what the pronounciation was in the 12th century? Jamie
                Message 7 of 11 , May 29, 2002
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                  So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what the
                  pronounciation was in the 12th century?

                  Jamie


                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@...]
                  > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                  > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                  >
                  > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures given
                  > by
                  > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long a's,
                  > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in the
                  > word
                  > > "true").
                  >
                  > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                  > (of a word that was not used back then).
                  >
                  > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                  > been much different, however. It would have been something
                  > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                  > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                  >
                  > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                  > to the one in English 'house'.
                  >
                  > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                  > any century.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                  > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                  >
                  > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                  >
                  > Kveðja,
                  > Haukur
                  >
                  > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                  > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                  >
                  > - Keth
                  >
                  > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                  > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  >
                • hfroelandshagen
                  The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a s, which would produce something similar to English aw in law . As for changes in pronunciation in general,
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 30, 2002
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                    The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a's, which would
                    produce something similar to English aw in "law". As for changes in
                    pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                    respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                    and Icelandic. As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                    consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                    there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.


                    Havard

                    --- In norse_course@y..., "Jamie Fessenden" <jfessenden@a...> wrote:
                    > So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what
                    the
                    > pronounciation was in the 12th century?
                    >
                    > Jamie
                    >
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@h...]
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                    > > To: norse_course@y...
                    > > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                    > >
                    > > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures
                    given
                    > > by
                    > > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long
                    a's,
                    > > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in
                    the
                    > > word
                    > > > "true").
                    > >
                    > > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                    > > (of a word that was not used back then).
                    > >
                    > > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                    > > been much different, however. It would have been something
                    > > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                    > > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                    > >
                    > > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                    > > to the one in English 'house'.
                    > >
                    > > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                    > > any century.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                    > > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                    > >
                    > > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                    > >
                    > > Kveðja,
                    > > Haukur
                    > >
                    > > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                    > > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                    > >
                    > > - Keth
                    > >
                    > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                    > > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > norse_course-unsubscribe@y...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service
                    > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    > >
                  • Jamie Fessenden
                    Okay. Thanks! Jamie
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 31, 2002
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                      Okay. Thanks!

                      Jamie

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: hfroelandshagen [mailto:g-tegle@...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:57 PM
                      > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Pronounciation
                      >
                      >
                      > The grafem is the same as used with u-umlauted a's, which would
                      > produce something similar to English aw in "law". As for changes in
                      > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                      > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                      > and Icelandic. As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                      > consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                      > there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.
                      >
                      >
                      > Havard
                      >
                      > --- In norse_course@y..., "Jamie Fessenden" <jfessenden@a...> wrote:
                      > > So, the pronounciation changed a couple times? How do we know what
                      > the
                      > > pronounciation was in the 12th century?
                      > >
                      > > Jamie
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: Haukur Thorgeirsson [mailto:haukurth@h...]
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 12:38 PM
                      > > > To: norse_course@y...
                      > > > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Pronounciation
                      > > >
                      > > > > I've heard it pronounced on a couple tapes I got of lectures
                      > given
                      > > > by
                      > > > > British Ring of Troth members as "Ah-sah-true" (i.e., two long
                      > a's,
                      > > > > pronounced sort of like in "father" and the u pronouned as in
                      > the
                      > > > word
                      > > > > "true").
                      > > >
                      > > > That would be, more or less, correct 13th century pronunciation
                      > > > (of a word that was not used back then).
                      > > >
                      > > > In the 12th century and earlier the first vowel would have
                      > > > been much different, however. It would have been something
                      > > > like a nasal version of the vowel in English 'awe'. Maybe
                      > > > close to the vowel in French 'dans'.
                      > > >
                      > > > In modern times the first vowel is a dipthong similar, indeed,
                      > > > to the one in English 'house'.
                      > > >
                      > > > The pronunciation of the rest of the word is the same for
                      > > > any century.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > The surprise, to me, after mispronouncing it for years, was
                      > > > > that they placed the accent on the first syllable.
                      > > >
                      > > > The accent is always on the first syllable in Norse / Icelandic.
                      > > >
                      > > > Kveðja,
                      > > > Haukur
                      > > >
                      > > > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                      > > > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                      > > >
                      > > > - Keth
                      > > >
                      > > > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                      > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                      > > > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                      > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/> >
                      > > >
                      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > > norse_course-unsubscribe@y...
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service
                      > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .
                      > > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                      > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                      >
                      > - Keth
                      >
                      > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                      > <http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/>
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                      >
                    • Haukur Thorgeirsson
                      ... That s certainly an oversimplification - but it is true that Icelandic, Faroese and the mainland Scandinavian dialects have preserved different parts of
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 1, 2002
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                        > As for changes in
                        > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in this
                        > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining Norwegian
                        > and Icelandic.

                        That's certainly an oversimplification - but it is true that Icelandic,
                        Faroese and the mainland Scandinavian dialects have preserved different
                        parts of the "original" pronunciation.


                        > As far as I know, Norwegian institutions are more
                        > consequent in using the "correct" pronunciation, while on Iceland
                        > there is a tendency to use a pronunciation close to modern Icelandic.

                        Not 'close to' but 'exactly the same'. As for Norwegian pronunciation
                        (from what I've read of Norwegian ON grammar books) it seems you use
                        a pronunciation based on a mixture of "what's correct" and "what's
                        easy for us to pronounce".

                        Kveðja,
                        Haukur
                      • szavost
                        ... this ... Norwegian ... But don t some Nynorsk and Bokmaal speakers use the French [R], and uhm then there s also the change from [u] to the sound that i
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 29, 2002
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                          --- In norse_course@y..., Haukur Thorgeirsson <haukurth@h...> wrote:
                          > > As for changes in
                          > > pronunciation in general, Norwegian has remained conservative in
                          this
                          > > respect, and so the reconstruction is based on combining
                          Norwegian
                          > > and Icelandic.


                          But don't some Nynorsk and Bokmaal speakers use the French [R], and
                          uhm then there's also the change from [u] to the sound that i dunno
                          really how to transcribe (similar in swedish)?
                          nicky
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