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Re: [norse_course] A translation needed

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  • Haukur Thorgeirsson
    ... Not too bad. ... Certainly. ... The word friðr (accusative frið ) means primarily peace ; secondary meanings are friendship and love . For
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
      > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:

      Not too bad.


      > Prowess = Hreysti (valor/prowess/boldness/skill in battle/comflict)

      Certainly.


      > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right' as
      > in righteous)

      The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
      'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.

      For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".


      > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)

      I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".


      > Defense = Verja (to defend), Vernd (defense)

      Defence can be "vörn" or "vernd". Usually "vernd"
      means something more like 'protection'.


      > Courage = Kjarkr

      Yes. Or the half a dozen word I mentioned in the
      last letter.


      > Faith = Trú

      faith, hope, charity = trú, ván, kærleikr :)


      > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
      > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
      > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)

      Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
      "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.


      > Largesse = Örlátr

      "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
      are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.


      > Nobility = Aðall

      I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
      for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
      quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
      I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.

      You might use 'hugprýði'.


      > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition

      I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
      context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
      have "sjálfræði".


      > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
      > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
      > > absolutely no luck.
      > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
      > > courage faith humility largesse
      > > nobility franchise

      So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
      I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
      least all of the below _are_ words :)

      The right thing to do would be to read through one
      of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
      precisely which words are used there.

      prowess - hreysti
      justice - réttvísi
      loyalty - trúnaðr
      defence - vörn
      courage - kjarkr
      faith - trú
      humility - auðmýkt
      largesse - örleikr
      nobility - hugprýði
      franchise - sjálfræði

      Kveðja,
      Haukur
    • Lazarus
      ... From: Haukur Thorgeirsson To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [norse_course] A
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Haukur Thorgeirsson" <haukurth@...>
        To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM
        Subject: Re: [norse_course] A translation needed


        > > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:
        >
        > Not too bad.

        Thanks.

        > > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right'
        as
        > > in righteous)
        >
        > The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
        > 'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.
        >
        > For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".

        Me too, but I think the context means a lot here. Sometimes 'justice' is
        used to mean the process by which peace is gained. I just put it out in case
        it fit.

        > > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)
        >
        > I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".

        I agree. Again, it depends though. Vilhelm Groenbech describes Frith as a
        deep loyalty between those sworn to each other.

        > > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
        > > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
        > > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)
        >
        > Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
        > "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.

        auð- prefix = to promote/to ease
        mýkt = softness, pliability
        hugar = mind/thoughts
        farsins = travels

        To 'auðmýkt hugarfarsins' = easily pliable thoughts/decisions

        To me, this isn't really a literal translation of what 'Humility' means in
        English. But not being a native speaker of Icelandic/Old Norse, I'm sure
        there is an inflection of meaning lost in the word-for-word translation.

        I still stand by my statement that the concept is not very well rooted in
        the idealogy of the culture. Compare with 'Courage', there are dozens of
        words and variants to intone all the subtle degrees to which it could be
        used.

        > > Largesse = Örlátr
        >
        > "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
        > are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.

        I found 'örleikr' and 'örlæti' in my ICelandic Dictionary, but not in the
        Old Norse dictionary so I hesitated to post them. Thanks for clearing this
        up.

        >
        > > Nobility = Aðall
        >
        > I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
        > for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
        > quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
        > I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.
        >
        > You might use 'hugprýði'.

        Another hard one.

        >
        > > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition
        >
        > I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
        > context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
        > have "sjálfræði".

        I'm stumped. I assume that my proposal is a modern term for a McDonald's.

        >
        > > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
        > > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
        > > > absolutely no luck.
        > > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
        > > > courage faith humility largesse
        > > > nobility franchise
        >
        > So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
        > I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
        > least all of the below _are_ words :)
        >
        > The right thing to do would be to read through one
        > of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
        > precisely which words are used there.
        >
        > prowess - hreysti
        > justice - réttvísi
        > loyalty - trúnaðr
        > defence - vörn
        > courage - kjarkr
        > faith - trú
        > humility - auðmýkt
        > largesse - örleikr
        > nobility - hugprýði
        > franchise - sjálfræði
        >
        > Kveðja,
        > Haukur

        Sounds good to me... except for 'humility'. Not convinced yet.

        -Laz
      • Brandi Epperson
        From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris. Thordis hrothvar wrote: Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002

          From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris.

          Thordis

            hrothvar <bigdawg@...> wrote:

            Thanks to all that gave coucil.  These are needed for a knighting
          ceremony for a friend.  This is Society for Creative Anachronism
          related, and some friends were making a "memorial" plaque for him and
          yes, they are the knightly virtues.
            Thanks again, looking forward to getting "caught back up".
          Hr�lfr






          Sumir hafa kv��i...
          ...a�rir spakm�li.

          - Keth

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          >^^<Thordis Eiriksdottir

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