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Re: A translation needed

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  • hrothvar
    Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for a knighting ceremony for a friend. This is Society for Creative Anachronism related, and some friends
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
      Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for a knighting
      ceremony for a friend. This is Society for Creative Anachronism
      related, and some friends were making a "memorial" plaque for him and
      yes, they are the knightly virtues.
      Thanks again, looking forward to getting "caught back up".
      Hrólfr
    • Haukur Thorgeirsson
      ... Not too bad. ... Certainly. ... The word friðr (accusative frið ) means primarily peace ; secondary meanings are friendship and love . For
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
        > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:

        Not too bad.


        > Prowess = Hreysti (valor/prowess/boldness/skill in battle/comflict)

        Certainly.


        > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right' as
        > in righteous)

        The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
        'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.

        For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".


        > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)

        I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".


        > Defense = Verja (to defend), Vernd (defense)

        Defence can be "vörn" or "vernd". Usually "vernd"
        means something more like 'protection'.


        > Courage = Kjarkr

        Yes. Or the half a dozen word I mentioned in the
        last letter.


        > Faith = Trú

        faith, hope, charity = trú, ván, kærleikr :)


        > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
        > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
        > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)

        Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
        "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.


        > Largesse = Örlátr

        "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
        are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.


        > Nobility = Aðall

        I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
        for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
        quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
        I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.

        You might use 'hugprýði'.


        > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition

        I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
        context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
        have "sjálfræði".


        > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
        > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
        > > absolutely no luck.
        > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
        > > courage faith humility largesse
        > > nobility franchise

        So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
        I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
        least all of the below _are_ words :)

        The right thing to do would be to read through one
        of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
        precisely which words are used there.

        prowess - hreysti
        justice - réttvísi
        loyalty - trúnaðr
        defence - vörn
        courage - kjarkr
        faith - trú
        humility - auðmýkt
        largesse - örleikr
        nobility - hugprýði
        franchise - sjálfræði

        Kveðja,
        Haukur
      • Lazarus
        ... From: Haukur Thorgeirsson To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [norse_course] A
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Haukur Thorgeirsson" <haukurth@...>
          To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [norse_course] A translation needed


          > > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:
          >
          > Not too bad.

          Thanks.

          > > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right'
          as
          > > in righteous)
          >
          > The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
          > 'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.
          >
          > For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".

          Me too, but I think the context means a lot here. Sometimes 'justice' is
          used to mean the process by which peace is gained. I just put it out in case
          it fit.

          > > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)
          >
          > I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".

          I agree. Again, it depends though. Vilhelm Groenbech describes Frith as a
          deep loyalty between those sworn to each other.

          > > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
          > > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
          > > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)
          >
          > Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
          > "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.

          auð- prefix = to promote/to ease
          mýkt = softness, pliability
          hugar = mind/thoughts
          farsins = travels

          To 'auðmýkt hugarfarsins' = easily pliable thoughts/decisions

          To me, this isn't really a literal translation of what 'Humility' means in
          English. But not being a native speaker of Icelandic/Old Norse, I'm sure
          there is an inflection of meaning lost in the word-for-word translation.

          I still stand by my statement that the concept is not very well rooted in
          the idealogy of the culture. Compare with 'Courage', there are dozens of
          words and variants to intone all the subtle degrees to which it could be
          used.

          > > Largesse = Örlátr
          >
          > "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
          > are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.

          I found 'örleikr' and 'örlæti' in my ICelandic Dictionary, but not in the
          Old Norse dictionary so I hesitated to post them. Thanks for clearing this
          up.

          >
          > > Nobility = Aðall
          >
          > I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
          > for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
          > quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
          > I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.
          >
          > You might use 'hugprýði'.

          Another hard one.

          >
          > > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition
          >
          > I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
          > context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
          > have "sjálfræði".

          I'm stumped. I assume that my proposal is a modern term for a McDonald's.

          >
          > > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
          > > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
          > > > absolutely no luck.
          > > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
          > > > courage faith humility largesse
          > > > nobility franchise
          >
          > So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
          > I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
          > least all of the below _are_ words :)
          >
          > The right thing to do would be to read through one
          > of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
          > precisely which words are used there.
          >
          > prowess - hreysti
          > justice - réttvísi
          > loyalty - trúnaðr
          > defence - vörn
          > courage - kjarkr
          > faith - trú
          > humility - auðmýkt
          > largesse - örleikr
          > nobility - hugprýði
          > franchise - sjálfræði
          >
          > Kveðja,
          > Haukur

          Sounds good to me... except for 'humility'. Not convinced yet.

          -Laz
        • Brandi Epperson
          From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris. Thordis hrothvar wrote: Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002

            From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris.

            Thordis

              hrothvar <bigdawg@...> wrote:

              Thanks to all that gave coucil.  These are needed for a knighting
            ceremony for a friend.  This is Society for Creative Anachronism
            related, and some friends were making a "memorial" plaque for him and
            yes, they are the knightly virtues.
              Thanks again, looking forward to getting "caught back up".
            Hr�lfr






            Sumir hafa kv��i...
            ...a�rir spakm�li.

            - Keth

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            >^^<Thordis Eiriksdottir

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