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  • hrothvar
    Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker. I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had absolutely no luck.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 10, 2002
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      Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
      I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
      absolutely no luck.
      They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
      courage faith humility largesse
      nobility franchise

      I thank you.
      Hrólfr
    • Úlfgrímr
      Heill ver þú Hrothvar, Here are a couple of suggestions for you... ... hagleikr (specifically in relation to crafts) ... réttvisi ... trú ... vörn ...
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 11, 2002
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        Heill ver þú Hrothvar,

        Here are a couple of suggestions for you...

        -----Original Message-----
        > From: hrothvar [mailto:bigdawg@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:36 AM
        >
        > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
        > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
        > absolutely no luck.
        > They are:
        > prowess

        hagleikr (specifically in relation to crafts)

        > justice

        réttvisi

        > loyalty

        trú

        > defense

        vörn

        > courage

        hugrekki

        > faith

        trú

        > humility

        auðmýkt

        > largesse

        örlæti

        > nobility

        This is just a guess, but "ágætir mann" would be famous/excellent man.

        > franchise

        ummm... "Subway"? ;-)

        Hope that helps. I'm sure others here can come up with better translations
        for some of these.

        Skiljum heilir,
        Úlfgrímr

        Norse Heathenry Society, Inc.
        An historical reconstructionist approach to Norse religion
        http://www.heathenry.org
      • fjornir
        ... Hi hi :) Translating words out of context is not an easy thing to do. Few of the words above have an exact/unique correspondance in Old Norse. Have you
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 13, 2002
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          >Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
          >I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
          >absolutely no luck.
          > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
          > courage faith humility largesse
          > nobility franchise

          Hi hi :)

          Translating words out of context is not
          an easy thing to do. Few of the words above
          have an exact/unique correspondance in Old
          Norse.

          Have you checked the dictionary? The MS-people
          have got a lot of it into searchable text files.
          What is probably needed is to compile all the
          text files into a single file. Then one could
          simply run a string search for "loyalty" and see
          which words would pop up.

          To show the lack of exact correspondance between
          the words above and some relevant ON words here
          are a few dictionary entries:

          trú (gen. trúar), f. (1) faith, word
          of honour (segir Ólafr þat upp á t.
          sína, at hann skal þessa menn út
          leysa); (2) religious faith, belief (Helgi
          var blandinn mjök í t.) ; taka við t.,
          to receive the Christian faith.

          trú-festi, f. faithfulness, firmness
          in faith

          trú-leikr, m. faithfulness, fidelity

          trú-lyndi, n. faithfulness

          trygðir, f. pl. plighted faith, sworn
          truce (svíkja e-n í trygðum).

          trygg-leikr, m. = trúleikr

          hugr (-ar, -ir), m. (I) mind; í hug
          eða verki, in mind or act; vera í hug
          e-m, to be in one's mind ; kome e-m í
          hug, to come into one's mind, occur to
          one ; leiða e-t hugum, to consider ;
          ganga (líða, hverfa) e-m ór hug, to
          pass out of one's memory, to be for-
          gotten ; snúa hug sínum eptir (at, frá)
          e-u, to turn one's mind after (to,
          from) ; mæla um hug sér, to feign,
          dissemble ; orka tveggja huga um e-t,
          to be of two minds about a thing ;
          orkast hugar á e-t, to resolve ; ef þér
          lér nökkut tveggja huga um þetta, if
          thou be of two minds about the matter ;
          (2) mood, heart, temper, feeling ; góðr
          h., kind heart; illr h. ill temper, spite;
          heill h., sincereity ; reynast hugi við,
          to make close acquaintance ; hugir
          þeirra fóru saman, they loved each
          other; (3) desire, wish ; leggja hug á
          e-t, to lay a heart, take interest in;
          leggja lítinn hug á e-t, to mind little,
          neglect; leggja hug á konu, to fall in
          love with a woman; mér leikr h. á
          e-u, I long (wish) for a thing ; e-m
          rennr h. til e-s, to have affection for
          one ; mér er engi hugr á at selja hann,
          I have no mind to sell him; (4) fore-
          boding; svá segir mér h. um, I fore-
          bode; hann kvað sér illa hug sagt
          hafa (he had evil forebodings) um
          hennar gjaforð; mér býðr hugr um
          e-t, I anticipate (eptir gekk mér þat,
          er mér bauð hugr um) ; mér býðr et í
          hug, it enters my mind, I think ; gøra
          sér í hug, to imagine; (5) courage;
          h. ræðr hálfum sigri, a stout heart
          is half the battle ; herða huginn (hug
          sinn), to take heart, exert oneself.

          hug-rekki, f. courage, intrepidity

          hug-hreysti, f. courage

          hug-prýði, f. courage, nobleness.

          hug-dirfð, f. courage

          If you dont mind me asking; what are those words for?

          Kveðja,
          Haukur
        • fjornir
          ... I m guessing you looked this up in Íslensk-Ensk orðabók , Úlfgrímr; is that correct? That s often a good starting point - but one should always check
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 13, 2002
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            >Here are a couple of suggestions for you...

            I'm guessing you looked this up in "Íslensk-Ensk
            orðabók", Úlfgrímr; is that correct? That's often
            a good starting point - but one should always check
            the words in an ON-dictionary. They might have had
            different meanings back then.

            >> nobility
            >This is just a guess, but "ágætir mann" would be
            >famous/excellent man.

            The number and case of the adjective must
            agree with the number and case of the
            noun. "Ágætir" is plural nominative
            whereas "mann" is accusative singular.
            Putting both words in nominative singular
            we get "ágætr maðr".

            Kveðja,
            Haukur
          • Pavel Iosad
            Heill wes thú! ... You know, to me these looked like a list of knightly virtues. I can even cite a couple of sources with a very similar list. Probably
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 13, 2002
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              Heill wes thú!

              >If you dont mind me asking; what are those words for?

              You know, to me these looked like a list of knightly virtues. I can even
              cite a couple of sources with a very similar list.

              Probably off-topic rant

              Relurking,
              Pavel
            • Úlfgrímr
              ... No. Cleasby-Vigfusson and Zöega. Skiljum heilir, Úlfgrímr Norse Heathenry Society, Inc. An historical reconstructionist approach to Norse religion
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 13, 2002
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                -----Original Message-----
                > From: fjornir [mailto:falconsword@...]
                > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 8:20 AM
                >
                > I'm guessing you looked this up in "Íslensk-Ensk
                > orðabók", Úlfgrímr; is that correct?

                No.

                Cleasby-Vigfusson and Zöega.

                Skiljum heilir,
                Úlfgrímr

                Norse Heathenry Society, Inc.
                An historical reconstructionist approach to Norse religion
                http://www.heathenry.org
              • Lazarus
                Sounds like a version of Thorsson s Nine Noble Virtues to me. Here s my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON: Prowess = Hreysti
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 13, 2002
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                  Sounds like a version of Thorsson's Nine Noble Virtues to me.

                  Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:

                  Prowess = Hreysti (valor/prowess/boldness/skill in battle/comflict)

                  Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right' as
                  in righteous)

                  Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)

                  Defense = Verja (to defend), Vernd (defense)

                  Courage = Kjarkr

                  Faith = Trú

                  Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
                  primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
                  translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)

                  Largesse = Örlátr

                  Nobility = Aðall

                  Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "hrothvar" <bigdawg@...>
                  To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:35 AM
                  Subject: [norse_course] A translation needed


                  > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
                  > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
                  > absolutely no luck.
                  > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
                  > courage faith humility largesse
                  > nobility franchise
                  >
                  > I thank you.
                  > Hrólfr
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sumir hafa kvæði...
                  > ...aðrir spakmæli.
                  >
                  > - Keth
                  >
                  > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • hrothvar
                  Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for a knighting ceremony for a friend. This is Society for Creative Anachronism related, and some friends
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
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                    Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for a knighting
                    ceremony for a friend. This is Society for Creative Anachronism
                    related, and some friends were making a "memorial" plaque for him and
                    yes, they are the knightly virtues.
                    Thanks again, looking forward to getting "caught back up".
                    Hrólfr
                  • Haukur Thorgeirsson
                    ... Not too bad. ... Certainly. ... The word friðr (accusative frið ) means primarily peace ; secondary meanings are friendship and love . For
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
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                      > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:

                      Not too bad.


                      > Prowess = Hreysti (valor/prowess/boldness/skill in battle/comflict)

                      Certainly.


                      > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right' as
                      > in righteous)

                      The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
                      'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.

                      For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".


                      > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)

                      I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".


                      > Defense = Verja (to defend), Vernd (defense)

                      Defence can be "vörn" or "vernd". Usually "vernd"
                      means something more like 'protection'.


                      > Courage = Kjarkr

                      Yes. Or the half a dozen word I mentioned in the
                      last letter.


                      > Faith = Trú

                      faith, hope, charity = trú, ván, kærleikr :)


                      > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
                      > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
                      > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)

                      Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
                      "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.


                      > Largesse = Örlátr

                      "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
                      are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.


                      > Nobility = Aðall

                      I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
                      for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
                      quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
                      I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.

                      You might use 'hugprýði'.


                      > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition

                      I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
                      context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
                      have "sjálfræði".


                      > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
                      > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
                      > > absolutely no luck.
                      > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
                      > > courage faith humility largesse
                      > > nobility franchise

                      So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
                      I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
                      least all of the below _are_ words :)

                      The right thing to do would be to read through one
                      of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
                      precisely which words are used there.

                      prowess - hreysti
                      justice - réttvísi
                      loyalty - trúnaðr
                      defence - vörn
                      courage - kjarkr
                      faith - trú
                      humility - auðmýkt
                      largesse - örleikr
                      nobility - hugprýði
                      franchise - sjálfræði

                      Kveðja,
                      Haukur
                    • Lazarus
                      ... From: Haukur Thorgeirsson To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [norse_course] A
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Haukur Thorgeirsson" <haukurth@...>
                        To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:37 AM
                        Subject: Re: [norse_course] A translation needed


                        > > Here's my try using modern Icelandic usage and comparing against ON:
                        >
                        > Not too bad.

                        Thanks.

                        > > Justice = Frið (in the context of justice 'for peace'), réttur ('right'
                        as
                        > > in righteous)
                        >
                        > The word "friðr" (accusative "frið") means primarily
                        > 'peace'; secondary meanings are 'friendship' and 'love'.
                        >
                        > For 'justice' I would try "réttr", "réttlæti" and "réttvísi".

                        Me too, but I think the context means a lot here. Sometimes 'justice' is
                        used to mean the process by which peace is gained. I just put it out in case
                        it fit.

                        > > Loyalty = Trygð or Frið (depending)
                        >
                        > I would try "trygðir", "trúnaðr" and "trú".

                        I agree. Again, it depends though. Vilhelm Groenbech describes Frith as a
                        deep loyalty between those sworn to each other.

                        > > Humility = [auðmýkt hugarfarsins] - supposition (doesn't sound like a
                        > > primary 'ideal' in that culture. It's a phrase than a word for word
                        > > translation.'Auðmýkt' alone isn't enough.)
                        >
                        > Uhm... The word "auðmýkt" will do for 'meekness' or 'humility';
                        > "auðmýkt hugarfarsins" means 'humility of mind'.

                        auð- prefix = to promote/to ease
                        mýkt = softness, pliability
                        hugar = mind/thoughts
                        farsins = travels

                        To 'auðmýkt hugarfarsins' = easily pliable thoughts/decisions

                        To me, this isn't really a literal translation of what 'Humility' means in
                        English. But not being a native speaker of Icelandic/Old Norse, I'm sure
                        there is an inflection of meaning lost in the word-for-word translation.

                        I still stand by my statement that the concept is not very well rooted in
                        the idealogy of the culture. Compare with 'Courage', there are dozens of
                        words and variants to intone all the subtle degrees to which it could be
                        used.

                        > > Largesse = Örlátr
                        >
                        > "Örlátr" is an adjective; the related nouns
                        > are 'örleikr' and 'örlæti'.

                        I found 'örleikr' and 'örlæti' in my ICelandic Dictionary, but not in the
                        Old Norse dictionary so I hesitated to post them. Thanks for clearing this
                        up.

                        >
                        > > Nobility = Aðall
                        >
                        > I'm afraid "aðall" won't do; at least not
                        > for the name of a virtue. I'm actually not
                        > quite sure what 'nobility' does refer to.
                        > I'm afraid I'm not much of a knight.
                        >
                        > You might use 'hugprýði'.

                        Another hard one.

                        >
                        > > Franchise = [Einkaréttr] - supposition
                        >
                        > I don't know what 'franchise' means in this
                        > context. For 'liberty' or 'independence' we
                        > have "sjálfræði".

                        I'm stumped. I assume that my proposal is a modern term for a McDonald's.

                        >
                        > > > Greetings unto this list, from a sometime student, sometime lurker.
                        > > > I was requested to get the following words tranlated, and I have had
                        > > > absolutely no luck.
                        > > > They are: prowess justice loyalty defense
                        > > > courage faith humility largesse
                        > > > nobility franchise
                        >
                        > So, here is my "best guess" list of translations.
                        > I'm not sure I always picked the best word but at
                        > least all of the below _are_ words :)
                        >
                        > The right thing to do would be to read through one
                        > of the chivalry sagas (riddarasögur) and find out
                        > precisely which words are used there.
                        >
                        > prowess - hreysti
                        > justice - réttvísi
                        > loyalty - trúnaðr
                        > defence - vörn
                        > courage - kjarkr
                        > faith - trú
                        > humility - auðmýkt
                        > largesse - örleikr
                        > nobility - hugprýði
                        > franchise - sjálfræði
                        >
                        > Kveðja,
                        > Haukur

                        Sounds good to me... except for 'humility'. Not convinced yet.

                        -Laz
                      • Brandi Epperson
                        From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris. Thordis hrothvar wrote: Thanks to all that gave coucil. These are needed for
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 14, 2002
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                          From which kingdom do you hail. I am here in Trimaris.

                          Thordis

                            hrothvar <bigdawg@...> wrote:

                            Thanks to all that gave coucil.  These are needed for a knighting
                          ceremony for a friend.  This is Society for Creative Anachronism
                          related, and some friends were making a "memorial" plaque for him and
                          yes, they are the knightly virtues.
                            Thanks again, looking forward to getting "caught back up".
                          Hr�lfr






                          Sumir hafa kv��i...
                          ...a�rir spakm�li.

                          - Keth

                          Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

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                          >^^<Thordis Eiriksdottir

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