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Selected Sentences for August 5th

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  • elliot.holland@ymail.com
    òBolli segir ■ß: Hva≡ er n· Snorri? --Bolli says then What is now Snorri --Bolli then asks What is Snorri now? òSφ≡an rei≡ Snorri φ
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 5, 2013
      •Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?

      --Bolli says then "What is now Snorri"

      --Bolli then asks "What is Snorri now?"


      •Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.

      --Then rides Snorri to Hjarðarholt (shepherd's wood) with some men (dat.)


      •Halldór tók vel við honum….

      --Halldór received him well.


      •Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.

      --Halldór offered him to be (stay) there.


      •Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….

      --Snorri says (himself) home would to ride at the evening.

      --Snorri says that he would ride home in the evening.


      •Síðan taka þeir tal*…

      --Then take they conversation.

      --Then, they took up talking.

      *Do you happen to know of any scandinavian cognates with >tal< I only know >mál< as in >bøkmál< and >snakke< "talk" and >Språk<, but then >tal< happens in dutch "taal". I can't think of anything in German or English, either. Did it just so happen that this was lost in all west germanic languages except Dutch and all north germanic languages except Icelandic? I don't know anywhere to look up something like this.


      •…lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….

      --Snorri illuminates over his errand (dat)

      --Snorri makes light of his purpose/business.
    • Paul David Hansen
      Regarding your question about “tal” ... “Speech”, as in “The Prime Minister’s Speech”, “Statsministerens Tale”, is “Tale” in Danish. En
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 5, 2013

        Regarding your question about “tal” ...

         

        “Speech”, as in “The Prime Minister’s Speech”, “Statsministerens Tale”, is “Tale” in Danish.

        En tale, a speech, talen, the speech, was originally a feminine nound, now common gender.

        The verb “at tale” means “to speak, to make a speech”.

         

        In Swedish, “att tala” translates Norwegian “å snakke”.

         

        “Samtale’ in Norwegian and Danish, “samtala” in Swedish, means conversation.

         

        The noun “Tale”, “speech”, was “talæ” in Old Danish, “tala” in Old Saxon (although it may also mean “tally, accounting”), “tale” in Middle Low German, “zala” in Old High German (also “tally, language”), “talu” in Old English (also means “conversation”), “tale” in Modern English.

         

        The Danish verb “tale” is cognate with Old Saxon “talōn”, Middle Low German “talen”, Old High German “talōn”, Old English “talian”.  But these non-Nordic words almost all mean “tally” or “pay” or “reckon”.  “Tally” or “count” is “telja” in Modern Icelandic.

         

        (Source for the Danish cognates: Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog, Niels Åge Nielsen)

         

        From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of elliot.holland@...
        Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:44 PM
        To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [norse_course] Selected Sentences for August 5th

         

         

        •Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?

        --Bolli says then "What is now Snorri"

        --Bolli then asks "What is Snorri now?"

        •Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.

        --Then rides Snorri to Hjarðarholt (shepherd's wood) with some men (dat.)

        •Halldór tók vel við honum….

        --Halldór received him well.

        •Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.

        --Halldór offered him to be (stay) there.

        •Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….

        --Snorri says (himself) home would to ride at the evening.

        --Snorri says that he would ride home in the evening.

        •Síðan taka þeir tal*…

        --Then take they conversation.

        --Then, they took up talking.

        *Do you happen to know of any scandinavian cognates with >tal< I only know >mál< as in >bøkmál< and >snakke< "talk" and >Språk<, but then >tal< happens in dutch "taal". I can't think of anything in German or English, either. Did it just so happen that this was lost in all west germanic languages except Dutch and all north germanic languages except Icelandic? I don't know anywhere to look up something like this.

        •…lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….

        --Snorri illuminates over his errand (dat)

        --Snorri makes light of his purpose/business.

      • Brian M. Scott
        At 11:43:44 PM on Monday, August 5, 2013, ... That might actually be a possible translation in another context; I’m not sure. Here, though, it’s not
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 6, 2013
          At 11:43:44 PM on Monday, August 5, 2013,
          elliot.holland@... wrote:

          > •Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?
          > --Bolli says then "What is now Snorri"
          > --Bolli then asks "What is Snorri now?"

          That might actually be a possible translation in another
          context; I’m not sure. Here, though, it’s not possible:
          he’s talking to Snorri. The actual sense is ‘What is [this]
          now, Snorri?’ Snorri has just said that he thinks that
          dead-Bolli’s death has been adequately avenged and that it’s
          time to bring the feud to an end, and young Bolli is about
          to accuse him of changing his position.

          > •Halldór …bauð honum þar að vera.

          > --Halldór offered him to be (stay) there.

          This is <bjóða> Z3 'to bid, to invite'.

          > *Do you happen to know of any scandinavian cognates with
          > >tal< I only know >mál< as in >bøkmál< and >snakke< "talk"
          > and >Språk<, but then >tal< happens in dutch "taal". I
          > can't think of anything in German or English, either. Did
          > it just so happen that this was lost in all west germanic
          > languages except Dutch and all north germanic languages
          > except Icelandic? I don't know anywhere to look up
          > something like this.

          For the verb there are bokmål & nynorsk <tale> 'snakke',
          Danish <tale> 'speak, make a speech', and Swedish <tala>
          'speak', and German <zählen> and <zahlen>. For the noun,
          nynorsk <tal> and bokmål <tall> 'number', Swedish <tal>
          'number; speech, talk[ing]', Danish <tal> 'number' and
          <tale> 'speech', German <Zahl>, and Dutch <tal> 'number' and
          <taal> 'language, speech'. In English there are <to tell>
          and <tale>.

          > •…lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….
          > --Snorri illuminates over his errand (dat)
          > --Snorri makes light of his purpose/business.

          This is <lýsa> Z4, where you’ll find the specific idiom
          <lýsa yfir e-u> 'to make something known': ‘Snorri makes his
          errand known’.

          Brian
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