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Laxdaela Saga Selected Sentences for August 5, 2013

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  • rob13567
    Bolli segir ■ß: Hva≡ er n· Snorri? Sφ≡an rei≡ Snorri φ Hjar≡arholt me≡ nokkura menn. Halld≤r t≤k vel vi≡ honumà. Halld≤r à bau≡
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 30, 2013
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      Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?

      Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.

      Halldór tók vel við honum….

      Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.

      Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….

      Síðan taka þeir tal….

      …lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….
    • elliot.holland@ymail.com
      Here are some questions for the next selected sentences if you could get to them before Monday. òI cannot find the translation for Hva≡. I know it┤s an
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 3, 2013
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        Here are some questions for the next selected sentences if you could get to them before Monday.

        •I cannot find the translation for Hvað. I know it´s an interrogative pronoun, i´m thinking "what" based on "hvaða," and I'm sure it's just a spelling difference that makes me not able to find it. Which entry should I look under to find the definition?

        •Nokkura means any? or could you point me toward the definition? I am trying to change it from masc. pl. dat to mas. sing. nom. in order to find it in the dictionary, but am not sure how it declines. Like an adjective, but I don't see any "ra" endings.

        •I am finding many different definitions of "Mund" "Mundr" and "Munda", so I'm not sure about the part of speech, given the position after the object.

        •I can´t find how "kveld" is declined to make "kveldið"

        •One more, pretty off-topic question: I've read that there is sometimes a "u" mutation where the letter u does not occur in the following syllable. is this something that I am seeing in the Declension of "barn" in the Nom. plural?

        --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?
        >
        > Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.
        >
        > Halldór tók vel við honum….
        >
        > Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.
        >
        > Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….
        >
        > Síðan taka þeir tal….
        >
        > …lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….
        >
      • Paul David Hansen
        ôHva≡ö is ôwhatö in modern Icelandic, and ôhvatö in Old Norse. According to Zoδga, ... n÷kkurr, indefinite pronoun, any, anybody, ... n÷kkura
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 4, 2013
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          “Hvað” is “what” in modern Icelandic, and “hvat” in Old Norse.

           

          According to Zoëga, ...

           

          nökkurr, indefinite pronoun, any, anybody, ...  nökkura hríð = for some time ;

           

          munu (man or mun, munda; preterite infinitive mundu) an auxiliary verb simply denoting futurity, shall, will;

           

          "kveldið" is “the evening” ; “kveld” is “evening”

           

           

           

          From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of elliot.holland@...
          Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2013 10:46 PM
          To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [norse_course] Re: Laxdaela Saga Selected Sentences for August 5, 2013

           

           

          Here are some questions for the next selected sentences if you could get to them before Monday.

          •I cannot find the translation for Hvað. I know it´s an interrogative pronoun, i´m thinking "what" based on "hvaða," and I'm sure it's just a spelling difference that makes me not able to find it. Which entry should I look under to find the definition?

          •Nokkura means any? or could you point me toward the definition? I am trying to change it from masc. pl. dat to mas. sing. nom. in order to find it in the dictionary, but am not sure how it declines. Like an adjective, but I don't see any "ra" endings.

          •I am finding many different definitions of "Mund" "Mundr" and "Munda", so I'm not sure about the part of speech, given the position after the object.

          •I can´t find how "kveld" is declined to make "kveldið"

          •One more, pretty off-topic question: I've read that there is sometimes a "u" mutation where the letter u does not occur in the following syllable. is this something that I am seeing in the Declension of "barn" in the Nom. plural?

          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?
          >
          > Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.
          >
          > Halldór tók vel við honum….
          >
          > Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.
          >
          > Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….
          >
          > Síðan taka þeir tal….
          >
          > …lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….
          >

        • rob13567
          Brian will be able to give you a better answer than I can, but I am replying in case he doesn t see this until later. Also, Brian or anyone else, please
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 4, 2013
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            Brian will be able to give you a better answer than I can, but I am replying in case he doesn't see this until later. Also, Brian or anyone else, please correct me if I have gone wrong at any points in my explanation.

            Yes, I took "Hvað" as the interrogative "What." One trick I often use is to search the Modern Icelandic dictionary http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html, which identifies those words with modern spellings that I can't find in Zoega.

            I took "Nokkura" to mean some or several. This word doesn't show up in the Modern Icelandic dictionary. I found it in Zoega as nökkurr.

            "Mundu" is "would." See Zoega "munu," but note the entry for the past tense as "would." This is a very common auxiliary verb, so it's worth making a note of.

            "kveldið" should be "the evening." In other words, the change comes from the neuter definite article as a suffix.

            And I will defer to Brian to talk about the "u" mutation. This is something I need to learn better myself.

            Rob

            --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "elliot.holland@..." <elliot.holland@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here are some questions for the next selected sentences if you could get to them before Monday.
            >
            > •I cannot find the translation for Hvað. I know it´s an interrogative pronoun, i´m thinking "what" based on "hvaða," and I'm sure it's just a spelling difference that makes me not able to find it. Which entry should I look under to find the definition?
            >
            > •Nokkura means any? or could you point me toward the definition? I am trying to change it from masc. pl. dat to mas. sing. nom. in order to find it in the dictionary, but am not sure how it declines. Like an adjective, but I don't see any "ra" endings.
            >
            > •I am finding many different definitions of "Mund" "Mundr" and "Munda", so I'm not sure about the part of speech, given the position after the object.
            >
            > •I can´t find how "kveld" is declined to make "kveldið"
            >
            > •One more, pretty off-topic question: I've read that there is sometimes a "u" mutation where the letter u does not occur in the following syllable. is this something that I am seeing in the Declension of "barn" in the Nom. plural?
            >
            > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "rob13567" <nielsenjava@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Bolli segir þá: "Hvað er nú Snorri?
            > >
            > > Síðan reið Snorri í Hjarðarholt með nokkura menn.
            > >
            > > Halldór tók vel við honum….
            > >
            > > Halldór … bauð honum þar að vera.
            > >
            > > Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….
            > >
            > > Síðan taka þeir tal….
            > >
            > > …lýsir Snorri yfir erindum sínum….
            > >
            >
          • Brian M. Scott
            ... Yes, this is ON . Final ON becomes modern in , , , , , the neuter inflection in , , etc.,
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 4, 2013
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              At 2:10:37 PM on Sunday, August 4, 2013, rob13567 wrote:

              > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com,
              > "elliot.holland@..." <elliot.holland@...> wrote:

              >> •I cannot find the translation for Hvað. I know it´s an
              >> interrogative pronoun, i´m thinking "what" based on
              >> "hvaða," and I'm sure it's just a spelling difference
              >> that makes me not able to find it. Which entry should I
              >> look under to find the definition?

              > Yes, I took "Hvað" as the interrogative "What." One trick
              > I often use is to search the Modern Icelandic dictionary
              > http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html,
              > which identifies those words with modern spellings that I
              > can't find in Zoega.

              Yes, this is ON <hvat>. Final ON <-t> becomes modern <-ð>
              in <at>, <þat>, <hvat>, <vit>, <þit>, the neuter inflection
              <-it> in <annat>, <mikit>, etc., the postposed neuter
              definite article (as in <kveldit> 'the evening', now
              <kveldið>), and verbal inflections like <farit>, <kallat>,
              etc. And yes, the modern Icelandic dictionary at the Univ.
              of Wisc. is very useful, especially when you’re working from
              a text that uses modern spellings. Just remember that in
              some cases the meanings have changed a bit.

              >> •Nokkura means any? or could you point me toward the
              >> definition? I am trying to change it from masc. pl. dat
              >> to mas. sing. nom. in order to find it in the dictionary,
              >> but am not sure how it declines. Like an adjective, but I
              >> don't see any "ra" endings.

              The full set of inflections is given on the Pronouns page in
              the set of tables at the back of Zoëga.

              > I took "Nokkura" to mean some or several. This word
              > doesn't show up in the Modern Icelandic dictionary. I
              > found it in Zoega as nökkurr.

              Depending on context it can also be 'any', though here it’s
              'some'. This form is specifically either the fem. acc.
              sing. or the masc. acc. plur., in this case the latter.

              >> •I am finding many different definitions of "Mund"
              >> "Mundr" and "Munda", so I'm not sure about the part of
              >> speech, given the position after the object.

              > "Mundu" is "would." See Zoega "munu," but note the entry
              > for the past tense as "would." This is a very common
              > auxiliary verb, so it's worth making a note of.

              <Munu> is an irregular verb, specifically, a so-called
              preterite-present verb; its conjugation is given in the
              table of irregular verbs in the section of tables at the
              back of Zoëga. <Mundu> is 3rd plur. past indic., '[they]
              would'.

              >> •I can´t find how "kveld" is declined to make "kveldið"

              > "kveldið" should be "the evening." In other words, the
              > change comes from the neuter definite article as a suffix.

              Which in the older spelling is <kveldit>. Specifically,
              this is either the nom. sing. or the acc. sing.; after <um>
              it must be the latter.

              >> •One more, pretty off-topic question: I've read that
              >> there is sometimes a "u" mutation where the letter u does
              >> not occur in the following syllable. is this something
              >> that I am seeing in the Declension of "barn" in the Nom.
              >> plural?

              Yes, it is.

              <Barn> is a neuter a-stem; in Proto-Scandinavian the
              nom./acc. plur. was *barnu, and the *-u caused labial
              mutation of the <a> to <ǫ>, later <ö>, before it was lost
              altogether.

              Brian
            • Brian M. Scott
              ... It is not 3rd plur. past indic.: I forgot to check the actual sentence when I wrote this. ... This is an accusative and infinitive construction (§3.9.4 in
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 5, 2013
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                At 3:50:29 PM on Sunday, August 4, 2013, Brian M. Scott wrote:

                > At 2:10:37 PM on Sunday, August 4, 2013, rob13567 wrote:

                >> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com,
                >> "elliot.holland@..." <elliot.holland@...> wrote:

                >>> •I am finding many different definitions of "Mund"
                >>> "Mundr" and "Munda", so I'm not sure about the part of
                >>> speech, given the position after the object.

                >> "Mundu" is "would." See Zoega "munu," but note the entry
                >> for the past tense as "would." This is a very common
                >> auxiliary verb, so it's worth making a note of.

                > <Munu> is an irregular verb, specifically, a so-called
                > preterite-present verb; its conjugation is given in the
                > table of irregular verbs in the section of tables at the
                > back of Zoëga. <Mundu> is 3rd plur. past indic., '[they]
                > would'.

                It is not 3rd plur. past indic.: I forgot to check the
                actual sentence when I wrote this.

                > Snorri kvaðst heim mundu ríða um kveldið ….

                This is an accusative and infinitive construction (§3.9.4 in
                Barnes); the subject of the subordinate clause is the same
                as the subject of the main clause, so it’s omitted, and the
                omission is indicated by using the sk-form <kvaðst> of the
                main verb. Here <mundu> is the past infinitive of <munu>.
                There are only three of these past infinitives that occur
                with any frequency: <mundu> (from <munu>), <skyldu> (from
                <skulu>, and <vildu> (from <vilja>).

                Brian
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