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Heil Forms Re: [norse_course] Re: Lesson 1, supplementary: "Heilsa!"

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  • Deep Stream
    As long as we re on the subject (please feel free to ignore if I m getting too far ahead). ... Does ON have a formal with a separate conjugation? In German the
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 1, 2000
      As long as we're on the subject (please feel free
      to ignore if I'm getting too far ahead).

      --- �skar Gu�laugsson <hr_oskar@...>
      wrote:
      > heilir ...to a group of men
      > heilar ...to a group of women
      > heil ...to a mixed group
      >
      > and perhaps least useful, but conceivable,
      >
      > heilt ...to a "neuter", perhaps an animal

      Does ON have a formal with a separate
      conjugation? In German the formal applies to all
      strangers, but in English there is only a
      "superformal" (when referencing royalty) which is
      built simply with the plural - does ON use
      something like this, and does it also only apply
      to royalty?

      What about "diminutive" - does ON have diminutive
      (like German "Frau" to "Fraeulein" = "Mrs" to
      "Miss") and if so does the gender shift for nouns
      in the diminutive? Imagine the female name
      "Hilde" becoming "Hildelein" - would the greeting
      change (ie "Heil Hilde!" en "Heilt Hildelein!")?



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      - DeepStream
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    • Óskar Guðlaugsson
      ... This is slightly ahead, yes, but it was I who started on the heilsa thing, so I might as well make sure we all understand how to normally greet people :)
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 1, 2000
        --- In norse_course@egroups.com, Deep Stream <DeepStream@Y...> wrote:

        > As long as we're on the subject (please feel free
        > to ignore if I'm getting too far ahead).

        This is slightly ahead, yes, but it was I who started on the "heilsa"
        thing, so I might as well make sure we all understand how to normally
        greet people :)

        > Does ON have a formal with a separate
        > conjugation? In German the formal applies to all
        > strangers, but in English there is only a
        > "superformal" (when referencing royalty) which is
        > built simply with the plural - does ON use
        > something like this, and does it also only apply
        > to royalty?

        Well, not really; however, the old Imperial Roman custom of speaking
        to royalty in plural became customary among ON speakers too. It became
        so widespread in English that now you all speak to each other in
        plural at all times ("you are" being said to one person just as well
        as many). So if you sometime get around to reading ON texts, don't be
        surprised to see the hero poet addressing the king as if he were many,
        while trying to make a good impression.

        > What about "diminutive" - does ON have diminutive
        > (like German "Frau" to "Fraeulein" = "Mrs" to
        > "Miss") and if so does the gender shift for nouns
        > in the diminutive? Imagine the female name
        > "Hilde" becoming "Hildelein" - would the greeting
        > change (ie "Heil Hilde!" en "Heilt Hildelein!")?

        ON does have diminutives (commonly -ill and -lingr/-ingr, which both
        change the gender to masculine), but none of them are used with titles
        of any sort. The -ingr suffix, however, is peculiarly added to
        nationalities with -land in it, yielding "Íslendingr" (Icelander) and
        "Englendingr" (Englishman) for example.

        Óskar
      • ingwibergo@email.msn.com
        ... I can think of at least one feasible use of Heilt as a greeting. Considering that the word _goð_ deity is neuter, would this invocation be correct
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 18, 2000
          --- In norse_course@egroups.com, Deep Stream <DeepStream@Y...> wrote:
          > As long as we're on the subject (please feel free
          > to ignore if I'm getting too far ahead).
          >
          > --- Óskar Guðlaugsson <hr_oskar@h...>
          > wrote:
          > > heilir ...to a group of men
          > > heilar ...to a group of women
          > > heil ...to a mixed group
          > >
          > > and perhaps least useful, but conceivable,
          > >
          > > heilt ...to a "neuter", perhaps an animal


          I can think of at least one "feasible" use of "Heilt" as a greeting.
          Considering that the word _goð_ 'deity' is neuter, would this
          invocation be correct grammatically?

          Heilt, veraldar goð! Heilt, blótgoð Svía!

          Yes, the logical gender and the grammatical gender are different here
          <g>; but mangled Old Norse still bothers me enough to ask.


          Ingeborg S. Nordén
          (ingwibergo@...)


          P.S. DeepStream, I've missed corresponding with you about the runes
          and other Germanic linguistic subjects. Please write when you have
          time available.
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