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Obscure sentence from Fyrsta Málfrœðiritgerðin

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  • Hrafn
    Hello everyone =) Hope you got a good start on the new year! I am doing so research on nasales in old norse, and of course i am using Fyrsta
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 9, 2012
      Hello everyone =)
      Hope you got a good start on the new year!

      I am doing so research on nasales in old norse, and of course i am using "Fyrsta Málfrœðiritgerðin". One thing which i cant understand is the following phrase "Þriggja syna austr mun ek þér sẏna."

      "sẏna" is nasal and "syna" is for some strange reason not. But what i hope you could tell me is what the phrase means, and what the two minimal pairs mean :)


      Thanks allot in advance

      -Nikolai Sandbeck-
    • Brian M. Scott
      ... , but both s are actually long. In other words, the first is , and the second is the same but
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 9, 2012
        At 7:20:51 AM on Monday, January 9, 2012, Hrafn wrote:

        > I am doing so research on nasales in old norse, and of
        > course i am using "Fyrsta Málfrœðiritgerðin". One thing
        > which i cant understand is the following phrase "Þriggja
        > syna austr mun ek þér sẏna."

        <Þriggja syna austr mun ek þér sẏna>, but both <y>'s are
        actually long. In other words, the first <syna> is <sýna>,
        and the second is the same but with a nasalized <ý>.

        The third word is <austr> 'bilgewater'; the <-r> is part of
        the root (as can be seen from the genitives <austrs> and
        <austrar>), so <austr> can be either nominative or
        accusative. Here it's accusative, the object of <sýna> 'to
        show'. <Þriggja> is the genitive, so it's 'I will show you
        bilgewater of three <sýna>', and <sýna> must be a genitive
        plural. Unless we're dealing with a word that is not in
        Cleasby & Vigfusson, Zoëga, Fritzner, or de Vries, this
        could be either <sýn> and <sýni>. Unfortunately, none of
        the senses given by any of these sources for either word
        really fits the context.

        Einar Haugen translated the sentence as 'I shall show you
        bilgewater three laps deep'. I'm guessing that 'laps' here
        refers to the overlaps of adjacent strakes forming the sides
        of a Viking ship's hull, so that it would be bilgewater
        three strakes deep, but I've no idea where this
        interpretation of <sýna> comes from; perhaps it's a
        technical term too rare to have made it into the standard
        dictionaries. At any rate, without a clear idea of what
        this word is, I'm not willing to guess why the vowel wasn't
        nasalized.

        Brian
      • Hrafn
        Thanks Brian =)
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 10, 2012
          Thanks Brian =)

          --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...> wrote:
          >
          > At 7:20:51 AM on Monday, January 9, 2012, Hrafn wrote:
          >
          > > I am doing so research on nasales in old norse, and of
          > > course i am using "Fyrsta MálfrÅ"ðiritgerðin". One thing
          > > which i cant understand is the following phrase "Þriggja
          > > syna austr mun ek þér sẏna."
          >
          > <Þriggja syna austr mun ek þér sẏna>, but both <y>'s are
          > actually long. In other words, the first <syna> is <sýna>,
          > and the second is the same but with a nasalized <ý>.
          >
          > The third word is <austr> 'bilgewater'; the <-r> is part of
          > the root (as can be seen from the genitives <austrs> and
          > <austrar>), so <austr> can be either nominative or
          > accusative. Here it's accusative, the object of <sýna> 'to
          > show'. <Þriggja> is the genitive, so it's 'I will show you
          > bilgewater of three <sýna>', and <sýna> must be a genitive
          > plural. Unless we're dealing with a word that is not in
          > Cleasby & Vigfusson, Zoëga, Fritzner, or de Vries, this
          > could be either <sýn> and <sýni>. Unfortunately, none of
          > the senses given by any of these sources for either word
          > really fits the context.
          >
          > Einar Haugen translated the sentence as 'I shall show you
          > bilgewater three laps deep'. I'm guessing that 'laps' here
          > refers to the overlaps of adjacent strakes forming the sides
          > of a Viking ship's hull, so that it would be bilgewater
          > three strakes deep, but I've no idea where this
          > interpretation of <sýna> comes from; perhaps it's a
          > technical term too rare to have made it into the standard
          > dictionaries. At any rate, without a clear idea of what
          > this word is, I'm not willing to guess why the vowel wasn't
          > nasalized.
          >
          > Brian
          >
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