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  • Eysteinn Bjornsson
    ... Sorry - there was a typo in the MI version! The above ... Thanks ESB
    Message 1 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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      --- In norse_course@y..., "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@i...> wrote:

      > var ekki haft ljós annat var ekki haf ljós annað

      Sorry - there was a typo in the MI version! The above
      line should read:

      > var ekki haft ljós annat var ekki haft ljós annað

      Thanks
      ESB
    • Gareth Jelley
      On Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:48 PM, gfross@pacbell.net [SMTP:gfross@pacbell.net] ... I wouldn t object, because I think both topics would be usefully
      Message 2 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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        On Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:48 PM, gfross@... [SMTP:gfross@...]
        wrote:
        > No one has commented on my earlier request to include modern
        > Icelandic as a part of this group. Does that mean that none of you
        > are interested? Does that mean that all of you are opposed to the
        > idea? Does it mean that you don't care one way or the other? Does
        > it mean that you missed my message? Or does it mean that you were
        > waiting for the group's moderator(s) to make a decision?

        I wouldn't object, because I think both topics would be usefully complementary.

        > I'd like to have some place online where I can ask questions about
        > modern Icelandic. If the general response to my request is negative,
        > I'd appreciate it if any of you know of and could tell me about an
        > Internet web site that supports discussions of modern Icelandic
        > language and literature. Thanks! Gordon

        I'm very interested in contemporary Icelandic literature, so that'd be cool.

        :o)

        R.

        "Jumped in the river what did I see \ Black eyed angels swimming with me."
      • Lynda Maynard
        Gordon - another internet resource you might find helpful is ICQ. Even if there were no groups on this topic per se, perhaps you could find a couple of
        Message 3 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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          Gordon - another internet resource you might find helpful is ICQ. Even if
          there were no groups on this topic per se, perhaps you could find a couple
          of Icelanders to chat with. (odd coincidence -- about 2 weeks or so after
          this course started, I got a random chat request on ICQ from a guy in
          Iceland. His name was Oskar, but it wasn't "our" Oscar from here. Kind of
          weird, tho!)
          --- "G. Ross" <gfross@...> wrote:
          > Hei, Keth --
          >
          > Thanks for your reply! You mention "other places" to learn (modern)
          > Icelandic. Do you mean Internet web sites? I haven't been able to find
          > any that foster discussion of the modern Icelandic language or
          > literature. Could you email me the URLs of these "places" that you
          > spoke of? Thanks!
          >
          > Gordon


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        • mdehners@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/8/01 9:37:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... Ah, yes...time . I agree with your comparison with OE and CE...that s why I joined this group
          Message 4 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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            In a message dated 5/8/01 9:37:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
            eysteinn@... writes:
            > I'm pretty sure I can answer most questions about Modern
            > Icelandic (and quite a lot about Old Norse) correctly.
            > Whenever I have the time, that is.
            Ah, yes...time<G>. I agree with your comparison with OE and CE...that's why I
            joined this group instead of taking an Icelandic correspondence course.
            Grammer shifts, "archaic" words and/or pronouncements (not to mention
            spelling<G>...) from then to now are seldom well adressed in available
            Stateside books and/or courses.
            There's also the confusion esp in beginners like me to scramble the two as I
            did my first attempt yrs ago...
            Troth,
            PTD
          • keth@online.no
            ... Hi Gordon, I enjoyed your letters, and thought you had some good points! The way I have understood it, it has always been okay to ask about Modern
            Message 5 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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              Gordon wrote:
              >No one has commented on my earlier request to include modern
              >Icelandic as a part of this group. Does that mean that none of you
              >are interested? Does that mean that all of you are opposed to the
              >idea? Does it mean that you don't care one way or the other? Does
              >it mean that you missed my message? Or does it mean that you were
              >waiting for the group's moderator(s) to make a decision?
              >
              >I'd like to have some place online where I can ask questions about
              >modern Icelandic. If the general response to my request is negative,
              >I'd appreciate it if any of you know of and could tell me about an
              >Internet web site that supports discussions of modern Icelandic
              >language and literature. Thanks! Gordon
              >
              Hi Gordon,
              I enjoyed your letters, and thought you had some good points!
              The way I have understood it, it has always been okay to ask
              about Modern Icelandic on this list. At least, I never saw any
              complaints, neither from listmembers nor moderators, and some
              questions were asked and answered on several occasions.
              However, it was stressed that the list was primarily for Old Norse
              and while some people said they were *only* interested in Old Norse,
              I guess most people are only *mainly* interested in Old Norse, but
              do not mind an occasional comparison with Modern Icelandic.

              For me, it is also difficult to see them as two different languages,
              since discussion of the either one of them, will sooner or later have
              to touch upon topics within the other.

              In the same way, I often find it useful to refer to the Nynorsk language,
              or even Danish or Swedish, in order to better understand Old Norse.
              If your mother language is English, I can imagine that you yourself
              stand in the same relationship to Old English. i.e. I think your understanding
              of Old Norse might sometimes benefit from comparisons with Old English.

              keth
            • Hild
              Why don t you create a new group with Old Icelandic along with Modern Icelandic for norse_course members? :) Just my 2 cents Brunnhild ... ...much he
              Message 6 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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                Why don't you create a new group with Old Icelandic along with Modern
                Icelandic for norse_course members? :)
                Just my 2 cents
                Brunnhild
                -------------------------------------------
                "...much he neglects, the man who sleeps in the
                mornings,
                WEALTH IS HALF-WON BY THE VIGOROUS."
                Havamal-59
                -------------------------------------------
              • gfross@pacbell.net
                Hej, Eysteinn! Thank you so much for your helpful clarification! Actually, although you say you aren t in a position to answer my questions, you are exactly
                Message 7 of 23 , May 9, 2001
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                  Hej, Eysteinn!

                  Thank you so much for your helpful clarification! Actually, although
                  you say you aren't in a position to answer my questions, you are
                  exactly the person I would like to have answer my questions about
                  Icelandic -- a native speaker! Hurrah! And I am very glad that you
                  see OI and ModI as one language, and I do agree with you that they
                  should be taught together and that by doing so, students would be
                  saved a great deal of time and effort, especially if their primary
                  goal was to read. In fact, that is exactly what I am doing now, using
                  both Stefan Einarsson's textbook of modern Icelandic and the three
                  Old Norse textbooks I have at hand. Unfortunately, none of them was
                  designed very well for the beginning READER, with emphasis on
                  recognition rather than translation, production, and grammatical
                  analysis.

                  The hoary weight of tradition still hangs heavy over the heads of
                  scholars in the archaic languages. They were taught to translate,
                  translate, translate, and parse, parse, parse and, unless they have
                  studied current trends and methods of teaching and writing textbooks
                  for the modern foreign languages, especially for English as a
                  Second/Foreign Language, a field that has blossomed in the last 30
                  years, and then learned to apply these methods to their own
                  languages, they will continue to ask their students to -- yes --
                  translate, translate, translate, and parse, parse, parse.

                  A background in linguistics and the writing and editing of ESL/EFL
                  textbooks as well as in teaching ESL/EFL courses has helped me in my
                  recent investigations of the modern methods of designing textbooks
                  and, even more recently, of designing online courses that focus on
                  helping the learner develop the ability to read a foreign language as
                  quickly and enjoyably as possible. I've learned that both LCTL and
                  CARLA offer a great deal of help.

                  So much can be done to make it easier for beginning students to learn
                  to read Old Icelandic materials. My thoughts at this point are that
                  the main project is to develop recognition exercises and lots of
                  supplementary paragraphs of simplified Icelandic prose designed to
                  familiarize students with the various morphological forms of words
                  that they have already learned. The "hell" of Icelandic for
                  foreigners -- at least, for this English speaker -- is the complexity
                  of its morphology. What a delight Norwegian -- which I have been
                  learning to read during the last month -- is in this regard!

                  Well, just a few thoughts I wanted to toss out! As always, I welcome
                  your comments -- and I thank those of you who have responded so
                  helpfully to my previous messages.

                  Alt det beste (I'll eventually learn how to say that in Icelandic) --

                  Gordon

                  --- In norse_course@y..., "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@i...> wrote:
                  > --- In norse_course@y..., gfross@p... wrote:
                  > > No one has commented on my earlier request to include modern
                  > > Icelandic as a part of this group. Does that mean that none of
                  you
                  > > are interested?
                  >
                  > Being an Icelander myself, I'm not really in a position
                  > to answer your questions. Generally, Icelanders don't
                  > really see Modern Icelandic and Old Norse as two languages.
                  > You cannot possibly learn one without learning a huge lot
                  > of the other. Personally I am of the opinion that the two
                  > should always be taught together, and that this would
                  > ultimately save the student an extraordinary amount of time
                  > and effort, but I don't think anyone on this list (owners
                  > included) agree with me on that.
                • Eysteinn Bjornsson
                  ... Exactly. The key word here is read . As for pronunciation, when it comes to OI, I personally think that learning how to speak OI as it was spoken is a
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 9, 2001
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                    --- In norse_course@y..., gfross@p... wrote:

                    > see OI and ModI as one language, and I do agree with you that they
                    > should be taught together and that by doing so, students would be
                    > saved a great deal of time and effort, especially if their primary
                    > goal was to read.

                    Exactly. The key word here is "read". As for pronunciation,
                    when it comes to OI, I personally think that "learning" how
                    to speak OI "as it was spoken" is a complete waste of time.
                    Not even the academics bother these days, and simply use
                    ModI pronunciation (one more reason to get familiar with
                    ModI, I guess).

                    Another reason to learn the two versions of Icelandic side
                    by side is that most of the really good OI editions of the
                    sagas are published in Iceland (e.g. the Íslenzk Fornrit
                    editions). But these not only valuable for the OI text, but
                    also for the massive scholarly introductions and commentaries,
                    which, of course, are all in ModI.

                    Regards
                    Eysteinn
                  • keth@online.no
                    ... There is also the alternative to pronounce Old Norse the way it is taught in Norwegian schools. See for example Odd Einar Haugen s Norrøn Grunnbok ,
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 10, 2001
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                      Eysteinn wrote:
                      >Exactly. The key word here is "read". As for pronunciation,
                      >when it comes to OI, I personally think that "learning" how
                      >to speak OI "as it was spoken" is a complete waste of time.
                      >Not even the academics bother these days, and simply use
                      >ModI pronunciation (one more reason to get familiar with
                      >ModI, I guess).

                      There is also the alternative to pronounce Old Norse the way
                      it is taught in Norwegian schools. See for example Odd Einar
                      Haugen's "Norrøn Grunnbok", which I think is the best Old Norse
                      textbook currently available. But it presupposes some knowledge
                      of modern Norwegian (reading ability) - but once you have that
                      - which I believe to be a much easier language to learn than Modern
                      Icelandic, especially for those already familar with English, because
                      the morphology is almost as easy as it is in English - then you
                      are all set to use Odd Einar Haugen's book. The pronounciation
                      of Old Norse that you find described in Odd Einar Haugen's book is a
                      lot easier than the pronounciation of Modern Icelandic - certainly if you
                      are already familiar with the pronounciation of one or more
                      of the other Scandinavian languages - or of German.


                      >Another reason to learn the two versions of Icelandic side
                      >by side is that most of the really good OI editions of the
                      >sagas are published in Iceland (e.g. the Íslenzk Fornrit
                      >editions). But these not only valuable for the OI text, but
                      >also for the massive scholarly introductions and commentaries,
                      >which, of course, are all in ModI.

                      I also have one or two volumes of the Islenzk Fornrit series;
                      the main difficulty of which is the Modern Icelandic introduction
                      and commentary, which I must admit is very hard to read for me.
                      The Old Norse text itself is however much more transparent to
                      me. The reason is - I think - that Modern Icelandic has introduced
                      a lot of abstract words, that were not there in Old Norse, or were
                      at least used very sparingly. And this happens to be the main obstacle
                      towards reading - in Gordon's sense - modern Icelandic.

                      Another category of words, that take time to learn for foreigners
                      learning Modern icelandic, are all the technical words. Mind you,
                      I really admire the Icelanders's insistence on using Icelandic
                      words, instead of simply importing "the word with the thing".
                      The Germans have done something of the same, and it has been done
                      in Norway too, although to a far lesser extent than in Iceland.

                      Here is an example from this morning's television news broadcast
                      where there was an advertisment for roller skates for kids.
                      The ad went something like this: "Nå er det den rette årstiden til
                      å kjøpe deg 'blades'" (Now is the right time of the year to buy
                      yourself 'blades'). Note that the advertizers simply use the
                      English word "blades", which they even pronounce the English way.
                      This is an unfortunate development, because it will cause the young
                      generation to grow up using English words for a lot of normal
                      objects. But I suppose the advertisement people have found out
                      that things sell better, if they are given English names;
                      and I guess it has something to do with the propagation of the idea
                      that it is the English-speaking countries that are "central", whereas
                      we others ar "peripheral".

                      Here is another example: English "radio", Norwegian "radio" - simple.
                      English "computer", Norwegian "computer" - also simple.
                      Yes, it is true that there exists another word for radio broadcasts
                      which is "kringkasting" - for example NRK = Norsk rikskringkasting.
                      In the same way, the Germans use "rundfunk" (or "funk").
                      But what are the Icelandic words for radio and computer ?

                      Any way, I hope you see why Norwegian (or Danish) is often quite
                      easy to learn for foreigners, because you get a large number of words
                      "for free". Other examples: kommunikasjon, telegraf, sentrum,
                      meteorolog, historie, matematikk, bibliotek, diskusjon, debatt,
                      argument, grammatikk, morfologi, resultat, konklusjon, etc, etc..

                      Best regards
                      Keth
                    • Haukur Thorgeirsson
                      Hello all :) I finished my examinations yesterday and finally have some time again. I haven t read the mail on this list for the past two weeks (when I tried
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 12, 2001
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                        Hello all :)

                        I finished my examinations yesterday and finally
                        have some time again.

                        I haven't read the mail on this list for the past two weeks
                        (when I tried to log in to yahoogroups again I found I had
                        forgotten my password:) but I will try and catch up now.

                        I also haven't replied much to private mail for some time,
                        I'll try and catch up on that too (but if I owe you a letter
                        you are welcome to send me a reminder).

                        So... where were we? Oh, yes, Óskar and I didn't get the
                        funding for the project we applied for :| Oh, well...

                        Óskar will be in examinations until the 28th of May - and two
                        days after that he'll be off to China for a month. So he's out,
                        at least for a while.

                        But what happens to this poor neglected project?
                        Here's what I'm thinking:

                        1. I will be working on this alone and in my free time,
                        work will be sporadic.

                        2. I will not ask people to post their solutions to me.

                        3. This list will become a mutual study group for people
                        learning ON (using this course or something else). I will
                        remain on the list but I may not be writing much or answering
                        every question. Arlie will remain as main moderator (I hope).

                        4. Óskar's idea to rewrite the course (New Lessons) will be
                        abandoned for now. Instead I will concentrate on continuing the
                        original line (Old Lessons). The sixth one is now available at the
                        website. Óskar had actually half-finished lessons 7-11 as well
                        (he had written most of the grammar but the exercises and vocabulary
                        hadn't been planned). I will start by hammering those together.

                        5. Lessons will only be released in one format, HTML.

                        6. Projects peripheral to the actual lessons (toons, reader etc.) will
                        be frozen for the time being.

                        I very much appreciate how patient and friendly the members of this list
                        have been.

                        Best regards,
                        Haukur
                      • James Stonehouse
                        Hi Haukur!, ... From: Haukur Thorgeirsson ... How could we not be patient and friendly? - You and Oskar have presented with a rare and
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 12, 2001
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                          Hi Haukur!,

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Haukur Thorgeirsson" <haukurth@...>
                          >
                          > I very much appreciate how patient and friendly the members of this list
                          > have been.
                          >
                          > Best regards,
                          > Haukur
                          >

                          How could we not be patient and friendly? - You and Oskar have presented
                          with a rare and wonderful opportunity - for which I'm certain we're all very
                          glad.

                          cheers, James
                        • gfross@pacbell.net
                          ... Hei, Keth! Tusen takk for denne informasjon! (Forgive the errors; am learning only to read Norwegian, not to write it, and since I m also learning to
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 15, 2001
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                            --- In norse_course@y..., keth@o... wrote:
                            >
                            > There is also the alternative to pronounce Old Norse the way
                            > it is taught in Norwegian schools. See for example Odd Einar
                            > Haugen's "Norrøn Grunnbok", which I think is the best Old Norse
                            > textbook currently available.

                            Hei, Keth! Tusen takk for denne informasjon! (Forgive the errors;
                            am learning only to read Norwegian, not to write it, and since I'm
                            also learning to read Danish and Swedish at the same time, I may have
                            thrown in some Danish or Swedish words or spellings.)

                            Anyway, vil jeg se paa denne bok av Einar Haugen.

                            > Any way, I hope you see why Norwegian (or Danish) is often quite
                            > easy to learn for foreigners, because you get a large number of
                            words
                            > "for free". Other examples: kommunikasjon, telegraf, sentrum,
                            > meteorolog, historie, matematikk, bibliotek, diskusjon, debatt,
                            > argument, grammatikk, morfologi, resultat, konklusjon, etc, etc..

                            Og "informasjon" (se oppe). :-)

                            Ha det bra!

                            Gordon
                          • keth@online.no
                            Hei Gordon ! Your information about modern methods of teaching language skills I find very interesting ! For me it is definitely true that there are stages ,
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 15, 2001
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                              Hei Gordon !

                              Your information about modern methods of teaching language
                              skills I find very interesting !

                              For me it is definitely true that there are "stages", "levels" or
                              "progressions" that one needs to pass through, and that these
                              levels should be passed in a certain order -- from easy to more
                              difficult -- which is the general answer to the question about
                              the most efficient way to learn a language.

                              One may of course argue that the "best path" is individual,
                              which is most definitely true when it comes to particulars.
                              For example, if you are already well versed in Latin morphology,
                              it could very well be that you ought to begin a study of Old Norse
                              by studying *its* morphology, and comparing it to Latin.

                              However, if you know next to nothing about "morphology" which
                              is not at all uncommon these days, a different path to Old Norse
                              would most definitely be in order. I like your idea of graded
                              excercises where "forms" are learned through lots and lots of
                              easy examples. The most common way of learning a language is
                              after all (still) the way 99.99% of the Earths population learns
                              it's mother language. That is through lots and lots of easy
                              conversation accompanied by "hands on" examples. e.g. "Hey lad,
                              fetch me that shovel, will you?" I am sure that *none* of my
                              comprehension of this easy example *ever* came to me by way
                              of any formal kind of study.

                              --- In norse_course@y..., gfross@p... wrote:
                              > --- In norse_course@y..., keth@o... wrote:

                              I also agree that for adults with some other IE language
                              as basis, the best way to progress with ON is to *first*
                              concentrate on mastering comprehension. i.e. one should
                              strive to become acquire *reading skills* first.
                              The ability *to speak* is a higher level, and is not
                              worth too much hassle in the beginning. It will begin to
                              arise by itself as one develops the reading skills.
                              Of course, it is not *forbidden* to play with the language
                              and try to make up sentences every now and then. That is
                              only healthy, and it is by impulses like these that *Nature*
                              teaches us to speak -- the playful way. But one shouldn't
                              let it be a major goal before one has achieved good reading
                              comprehension.

                              But how to achieve this with the internet as ones major tool,
                              and in particular by means of a mailing list where 99% have not
                              yet reached the level of speech ???

                              The image of a hand comes up. But oh je, it is a hand with 9
                              thumbs. Do childeren ever teach each other to speak ?
                              Proper reading skills first -- that definitely seems to be
                              the right way to go.


                              > >
                              > > There is also the alternative to pronounce Old Norse the way
                              > > it is taught in Norwegian schools. See for example Odd Einar
                              > > Haugen's "Norrøn Grunnbok", which I think is the best Old Norse
                              > > textbook currently available.
                              >
                              > Hei, Keth! Tusen takk for denne informasjon! (Forgive the errors;
                              > am learning only to read Norwegian, not to write it, and since I'm
                              > also learning to read Danish and Swedish at the same time, I may
                              have
                              > thrown in some Danish or Swedish words or spellings.)
                              No, that is quite good actually!

                              Personally I can read Swedish and Danish quite well, but
                              I cannot speak it. That isn't necessary either, since
                              Danes and Swedes generally understand Norwegian quite well.
                              Well, most likely, we do speak a bit more slowly, and are
                              careful to be distinct when pronouncing. We also insert
                              a few words of the other language here and there. But apart from
                              that, we just speak our own language. It isn't much different
                              from people with different dialects of English conversing with
                              one another.

                              > Anyway, vil jeg se paa denne bok av Einar Haugen.

                              Bra! Husk på at han heter Odd Einar Haugen. Einar Haugen
                              var en annen språkforsker som virket mye I USA. Jeg tror
                              han var professor ved Harvard-universitetet. Men han er død nå.
                              Odd Einar Haugen er imidlertid en helt annen språkmann, ikke
                              en gang i slekt, såvidt jeg vet. Han er ennå en ung mann
                              og satte sammen en hel serie med lærebøker i norrønt mål
                              for noen år siden. Dette var et ledd i det programmet som heter
                              "fjernord", som er et opplæringsprogram for studenter som
                              studerer språkfag på universitetsnivå på egen hånd.
                              Dersom du bestiller "Norrøn grunnbok" følger det visstnok
                              også med en CD-rom, der det er forskjellige øvingstekster
                              (tror jeg - jeg har ikke hatt anledning til å se på CD-romen,
                              da jeg har den forrige utgaven)

                              Selv har jeg nå prøvet en rekke norrøne grammatikkbøker.
                              Eldre norrønfilologer bruker f.eks. helst Ragnvald Iversens
                              bok. Men det må være fordi de er vant med denne. Selv har
                              jeg funnet ut at det går fortere å finne ut av ting når en
                              bruker O.E. Haugens bok. Den er også ganske fullstendig, og
                              har et utmerket stikkordregister. Forleden fikk jeg forresten
                              også tak i en engelsk bok om norrønt språk. Jeg mener at
                              forfatteren heter det samme som deg! Men det er nok en annen ;)
                              da førsteutgaven allerede kom ut i 1927. Om du vil kan vi
                              godt diskutere Gordons bok på denne listen, og sammenligne
                              med andre grammatikkbøker.

                              Dersom du velger å skaffe deg et eksemplar av O.E. Haugens
                              "grunnbok", så er det viktig a vite at den er beregnet på å
                              brukes sammen med Heggstads norrøne ordbok. Er du interessert
                              i å prøve en norsk internettbokhandel, så kan du muligens nå
                              fram via <http://www.bokkilden.no>. Jeg så nemlig at de
                              reklamertepå TV igår - og jeg tror at de har et rimelig bra tilbud.


                              >
                              > > Any way, I hope you see why Norwegian (or Danish) is often quite
                              > > easy to learn for foreigners, because you get a large number of
                              > words
                              > > "for free". Other examples: kommunikasjon, telegraf, sentrum,
                              > > meteorolog, historie, matematikk, bibliotek, diskusjon, debatt,
                              > > argument, grammatikk, morfologi, resultat, konklusjon, etc, etc..
                              >
                              > Og "informasjon" (se oppe). :-)
                              >
                              > Ha det bra!
                              I lige måde!

                              (that's Danish - but it doesn't matter :)
                              Keth



                              > Gordon
                            • falconsword@hotmail.com
                              ... All right. I ll list the Icelandic words for those and the others you mentioned. Norwegian - Icelandic radio - útvarp computer - tölva kommunikasjon -
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 15, 2001
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                                Keth wrote:

                                >Here is another example: English "radio", Norwegian "radio" -
                                >simple. English "computer", Norwegian "computer" - also simple.
                                >Yes, it is true that there exists another word for radio broadcasts
                                >which is "kringkasting" - for example NRK = Norsk rikskringkasting.
                                >In the same way, the Germans use "rundfunk" (or "funk").
                                >But what are the Icelandic words for radio and computer ?

                                All right. I'll list the Icelandic words
                                for those and the others you mentioned.

                                Norwegian - Icelandic

                                radio - útvarp
                                computer - tölva
                                kommunikasjon - samskipti
                                telegraf - símskeyti
                                sentrum - miðbær
                                meteorolog - veðurfræðingur
                                historie - (mannkyns)saga
                                matematikk - stærðfræði
                                bibliotek - bókasafn
                                diskusjon - samtal
                                debatt - umræða
                                argument - rök
                                gramatikk - málfræði
                                morfologi - I don't know. Ask Óskar.
                                resultat - niðurstaða
                                konklusjon - ályktun

                                Kveðja,
                                Haukur
                              • keth@online.no
                                Hail Hawk ! Gee, you are back ! ! ! :-) And I who really ought to be outside playing the tuba today; I m taking a break in the festivities to answer the tips
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 17, 2001
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                                  Hail Hawk !

                                  Gee, you are back ! ! ! :-)
                                  And I who really ought to be outside playing the tuba today;
                                  I'm taking a break in the festivities to answer the tips you
                                  gave us. I also congratulate you upon finishing your exams !
                                  As usual with excellent results, I assume.
                                  You have important business like university exams, and everyone
                                  is happy to know that that is your first priority.


                                  >All right. I'll list the Icelandic words
                                  >for those and the others you mentioned.
                                  >
                                  >Norwegian - Icelandic
                                  >
                                  >radio - útvarp
                                  >computer - tölva
                                  >kommunikasjon - samskipti
                                  >telegraf - símskeyti
                                  >sentrum - miðbær
                                  >meteorolog - veðurfræðingur
                                  >historie - (mannkyns)saga
                                  >matematikk - stærðfræði
                                  >bibliotek - bókasafn
                                  >diskusjon - samtal
                                  >debatt - umræða
                                  >argument - rök
                                  >gramatikk - málfræði
                                  >morfologi - I don't know. Ask Óskar.
                                  >resultat - niðurstaða
                                  >konklusjon - ályktun


                                  My comment is that such as the above is extremely difficult to memorize.
                                  Even for someone like me who understands other Nordic languages.

                                  Off my sleeve, and at the risk of making a mistake, I'll add that
                                  "fræði" can be more easily memorized if you think about the old
                                  Danish king "Frode", whose name means "the wise one".
                                  From the adjective "fróðr" then derives nouns like "fróðleikr"
                                  (=wisdom, knowledge) and "froeði" (=knowledge). In other words,
                                  the way to go seems to be through understanding, and not through
                                  the rote.

                                  You say "samtal" = discussion.
                                  In Norway we also have "samtale", but it means dialogue, and
                                  not discussion. To me those two are not exactly the same concept,
                                  since dialogue is more in the direction of a conversation, whereas
                                  discussion is more in the direction of a debate.

                                  Nuances like that are important, and it is by no means given
                                  that the same word in languages as close as Icelandic and Norwegian
                                  always catches the same nuances. Btw, I also find Icelandic
                                  words like umræða and rökræða that have related meanings. But to become
                                  familiar with the nuances, requires seeing the words in context.
                                  (and if you have time to provide examples, it would be very much
                                  appreciated!)


                                  radio = útvarp. I read that as something "thrown out" (the radio
                                  waves from the antenna into space; cf. "broadcast"). Is that what
                                  you too read into it?

                                  I already knew that sími = telephone. But símskeyti for telegram was
                                  new to me. I see that ON skeyti (n.) means "an arrow". Is that the right
                                  context ? And ON sími (n.) means a rope. That would give the literal
                                  meaning telegram = rope-arrow.

                                  Apropos of "rök", I see that Icelandic rökfræði = "logic" (as a science).
                                  That reminds me of the "ro,kstólar" (w. hooked 'o') that you find in
                                  Voluspaa. Is it the same thing ? ("chairs of logic")

                                  Kveðja,
                                  Keth
                                • nikolai_sandbeck
                                  Well i am a lazy person, i stopped at lesson 4 and just began to speak with icelandic people on msn, now after half a year i am writing a story in old norse, i
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 23, 2008
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                                    Well i am a lazy person, i stopped at lesson 4 and just began to speak
                                    with icelandic people on msn, now after half a year i am writing a
                                    story in old norse, i am able to have small conversations with
                                    icelandic people, i understand very much of it and i can write a good
                                    part too =)

                                    I am so fast at learning becuase i am danish, and can understand many
                                    fo the words without knowing them :b

                                    the lessons are good if you want to understand the grammar, wich is
                                    needed! but a pen pal is the best thing you can get ^^
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