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8068Re: Nefnifallssýki / "Nominative Sickness" with 'langa'

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  • llama_nom
    Apr 5, 2007
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      Vertu heill Konráð!

      > an interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':
      >
      > 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
      > scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
      > Icelandic Homily Book).

      Could this be anything to do with the fact that there is another verb
      dependent on 'skyldi' in this sentence: '...skyldi hverr maðr langa ok
      of þat önn ala...'? But searching on Google, I find Modern Icelandic
      examples such as 'mig langar og ætla', so maybe that's not a factor.
      Or could the example in Hómilíubók have been influenced by some Latin
      usage? I don't know much about the history of it, so I don't know if
      that's likely, but the religious subject matter makes me wonder. The
      Old English verb 'langian' has a nominative subject when it means "to
      lengthen", but has accusative when it means "to want, to long for"
      just as in Icelandic.

      Þórhallur Eyþórsson has some more examples of nominative in place of
      the usual accusative in Old Icelandic in: 'Dative vs. Nomination:
      Changes in quirky subjects in Icelandic'.

      "...the investigation showed that the substitution of nominative for
      oblique cases is attested already in Old Icelandic, affecting various
      kinds of quirky subjects (or subject-like NPs), including Experiencers
      (at least with dreyma `dream', gruna `suspect', langa `want', ugga
      `fear' and undra `wonder'). Some examples of N[ominativbe] S[ickness]
      from Old Icelandic texts are given in (7):"

      (7) a.

      Ein kona... dreymdi þann dróm.
      one woman-nom dreamt-3.sg that dream
      `One woman... dreamt that dream.' (Mar.: 1029)

      b.

      þóttist hann ok spurt hafa, at Orkneyíngar myndi
      seemed he also learned have that Orkneymen-nom would-3.pl

      lítt lánga til, at hann kæmi vestr þagat.
      little want to that he came westward thither

      `It also seemed to him that the men of the Orkneys would not be
      eager for him to come here to the west.' (Fms. VII:28)

      c.

      þetta undra víkingar.
      this wonder-3.pl vikings-nom
      `The vikings wondered at this.' (Fas. II:530)
      _____________________________________________

      But apparently, there is only one example of a dative being used in
      Old Icelandic with such a verb that would normally have an accusative
      "logical subject" ('honum skortir' in Grágás) -- although I gather
      this has become a common (non-standard / frowned-upon) variant in
      Modern Icelandic. Regarding which, I found an curious comment here
      about half-correct usages, with a mixture of accusative and dative,
      such as * 'mig langar og honum líka' "I want and so does he" (!) [
      http://www.ma.is/kenn/svp/pistlar/mars03.htm ] (líka = "also", not the
      verb 'líka') -- due to people having being taught that 'mig langar' is
      the correct form, but forgetting the rule.

      LN


      --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Heill Llama!
      >
      > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
      > >
      > > We had a discussion here recently about the complications of
      > saying "I like" in Icelandic [
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/message/7913 ].
      >
      > I missed this. An interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':
      >
      > 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
      > scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
      > Icelandic Homily Book). I'm not sure if there are any parallel
      > obsolete usages of 'líka', but **mér líkar hangikjöt won't work in
      > Modern Icelandic. I can't explain why this is so - for some reason it
      > breaks with inherited usage-tradition. Interestingly, the verb
      > mirrors Modern English usage in the mainland Scandinavian languages
      > (for example, eg likar hangekjot, Modern Norwegian). It could just be
      > English influence, but I'm not sure. In my opinion, the contructions
      > 'mér líkar vel/illa við hangikjöt/eitthvað/einhvern'
      > (something/someone) are very good, classic modern usage, whatever the
      > history. But if I ever run across archaic or obsolete usages
      > of 'líka', I'll rememeber to post them here for discussion ;)
      >
      > Regards,
      > Konrad
      >
      > > I wonder if this sentence could be amended to:
      > >
      > > Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.
      > >
      > > Compare Ögmundar þáttr dytts: mér þykkir gaman at hafa hálflit klæði
      > > "I like to wear / enjoy wearing clothes of two colours."
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@>
      > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
      > > > > > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
      > > > >
      > > > > I've found such exaples:
      > > > >
      > > > > "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
      > > > > "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
      > > > > "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA
      > ÞÁTTUR)
      > > >
      > > > Hi Tim,
      > > >
      > > > Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant. The
      > difference is that in each of these examples, the complement/object of
      > the verb is a noun. This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic; most,
      > though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
      > complement, as in these three examples. The anachronism is the use of
      > 'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
      > describe an action which the subject of the verb 'elska' "likes/loves
      > to do".
      > > >
      > > > LN
      > > >
      > >
      >
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