2750SV: Re: Language shift: Finnish > Germanic
- Mar 2, 2003Heill Daniel.
This is an interesting topic to look at, indeed.
My view point is that Proto-Germanic -- the ancestor of "pure"
English, "pure" Dutch, "pure" Dalecarlian etc -- was formed in a
Finno-Ugric speaking environment which slowly adapted to the Indo-
European way of living and speaking.
I hardly believe that the Germanic language came to Scandinavia with
Germanic people. Sami people definitely lived over most of what is
today known as Scandinavia. Genetically, Scandinavian have been here
longer than the Indo-European language. There are myths about
different Germanic tribes moving north from, e.g., Denmark to settle
Norway and Sweden. I believe that only the rulers physically moved --
bringing updated Indo-European language elements --, the original
people had been living there for thousands of years, and they are
still living there (I speak about genetics here).
This is a history I think is quite plausible:
Together with the edge of the great ice, cro-magnons moved to
northern Europe. No clue what language they spoke, but they are
genetically the ancestors of the sami people.
Thousands and thousands of years later, a Finnish speaking population
from the south east came to Scandinavia and northern Europe. There
are indications also that they settled large portions of central
Europe, but definitely not the western parts. Genetically, they are
the ancestors of the Scandinavians. They spoke a language which the
southern branch of the sami people adapted. That is why I find south
sami very interesting.
A few thousand of years later, there was a need for iron in southern
Europe since the Greek civilization expanded. Of course, there is
iron in Scandinavia, and the trading of this metal of power made
Scandinavians Indo-European speaking. But sami people did not change
language a second time, by some reason (definitely related to their
nomadic style of living). germanic was formed somewhere in southern
Scandinavia and perhaps northern Germany
Later on, Germanic spread and developed into what is known from
I hope this supposition will be unsparingly critized.
Skål ta mej faan!
/Jens Persson, aka Arnljotr
Daniel Bray wrote:
> Heill Jens,Polomé was
> A very interesting field this. I believe the late Prof. Edgar
> beginning an extensive project on the substrate etyma found inGermanic
> languages (there's an article on it in the Journal of Indo-EuropeanStudies,
> vol. 26, #1&2). Unfortunately, he will never finish this project.It would be
> interesting to see the difference (if any) between substrate wordsin
> Scandinavian languages and Continental Germanic. I had read sometime ago
> that genetic studies indicated that Scandinavia had beenextensively settled
> by the ancestors of the Saami and Suomi from the north and eastbefore
> Germanic settlement from the south.It would be interesting to seeif there is
> a significant Finno-Ugric substrate in the Scandinavian languages.Has anyone
> besides Polomé done any significant work (pref. in English) inthis area?
> "Jens Persson " wrote:
> > Here is an interesting article about the language shift we had in
> > Scandinavia for 2500-3000 years ago (it is a supposition, I should
> > point out):
> > http://www.taurnet.se/historia/jarnsvenska.htm
> > I wonder, how is it with the etymology: are there more Indo-
> > etymological ''gaps'' for the Germanic words than for, e.g., thegaps
> > Greek or Latin ones? And what about the explanation that these
> > can be filled by non-Indo-European words? What about filling themarchaic
> > with Finnish words?
> > I should point out that with Finnish, I do not mean 21th century
> > standard Finnish as spoken in Finland; one could imagine an
> > uncle within the Finno-Ugric frame.dem
> > Skål ta mej faan!
> > /Jens Persson, aka Arnljotr
> > "Kan man adoptera barn från Colombia kan man väl också adoptera
> > från bronsåldern."http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > Annika Luther
> > Sumir hafa kvæði...
> > ...aðrir spakmæli.
> > - Keth
> > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
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> Daniel Bray
> School of Studies in Religion A20
> University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia
> "Human history becomes more and more a race between education and
> catastrophe." H. G. Wells (1866 - 1946)
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