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? RAW mode for guiding with PHD

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  • ksipp01
    I m using a neximage camera to guide with a celestron radial OAG guider and PHD on a C9.25. It works ok but can be extremely difficult to find a bright
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 13, 2010
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      I'm using a neximage camera to guide with a celestron radial OAG guider
      and PHD on a C9.25. It works 'ok' but can be extremely difficult to
      find a bright start. I see it's possible to modify the camera to
      operate in RAW mode. The Celestron web site says it may not work w/
      Guidedog.

      Does anyone know if it works w/ PHD in RAW mode? If so, does it help
      increase sensitivity?

      Thanks in advance
    • MALEKOS ALEKARAS
      Hello !  I can t help you with the software part but since you get a 3%(?) of light  from the off axis maybe that s why you can t find a bright star .  Have
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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        Hello !
         I can't help you with the software part but since you get a 3%(?) of light  from the off axis maybe that's why you can't find a bright star .

         Have fun
         Alex
         

        deepinthesky2003


        --- Στις Τετ., 14/07/10, ο/η ksipp01 <k.sipprell@...> έγραψε:

        Από: ksipp01 <k.sipprell@...>
        Θέμα: [neximage] ? RAW mode for guiding with PHD
        Προς: neximage@yahoogroups.com
        Ημερομηνία: Τετάρτη, 14 Ιούλιος 2010, 2:50

         


        I'm using a neximage camera to guide with a celestron radial OAG guider
        and PHD on a C9.25. It works 'ok' but can be extremely difficult to
        find a bright start. I see it's possible to modify the camera to
        operate in RAW mode. The Celestron web site says it may not work w/
        Guidedog.

        Does anyone know if it works w/ PHD in RAW mode? If so, does it help
        increase sensitivity?

        Thanks in advance


      • tonkads
        The neximage camera is not really idea for autoguiding even through a guide scope due to it s design to image bright objects like planets and the moon.
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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          The neximage camera is not really idea for autoguiding even through a guide scope due to it's design to image bright objects like planets and the moon. Basically it's not sensitive enough. I use PHD in my setup and a old DSI color camera that I picked up cheap. I'd suggest you join the Stark Labs group or at least visit his website to see if PHD will work in raw but I'm not sure that will cure your problem. I know in PHD we can turn up the gain and adjust the duration to pick up faint stars. Perhaps you could try that with Guidedog.
          Best of luck to you.
          Russ

          --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "ksipp01" <k.sipprell@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I'm using a neximage camera to guide with a celestron radial OAG guider
          > and PHD on a C9.25. It works 'ok' but can be extremely difficult to
          > find a bright start. I see it's possible to modify the camera to
          > operate in RAW mode. The Celestron web site says it may not work w/
          > Guidedog.
          >
          > Does anyone know if it works w/ PHD in RAW mode? If so, does it help
          > increase sensitivity?
          >
          > Thanks in advance
          >
        • Kevin Sipprell
          I kind of figured it s less than ideal. I ll check w/ the PHD folks. Thanks,
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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            I kind of figured it’s less than ideal.  I’ll check w/ the PHD folks.

            Thanks,

          • imontam
            Hi, I ve got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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              Hi,
              I've got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to autoguide with the Neximage and an OAG in my SC8. I couldn't see any stars at all. I presume it is possible to get such a setup working, but instead of continuing in that direction I abandoned the OAG alltogether and tried the Neximage in an 80mm refractor, using 5-inch rings that allow plenty of movement of the refractor tube. This setup works beautifully. I put the refractor under the OTA, on the counter-weight support bar, instead of the counter-weight. This way, balancing is easier, and the refractor assembly cant hit the forks of the SC8. I have no trouble finding guide stars, even in my light-drenched city-sky.

              Monti.


              --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Sipprell" <k.sipprell@...> wrote:
              >
              > I kind of figured it's less than ideal. I'll check w/ the PHD folks.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
            • tonkads
              Ya the light gathering ability of an 80MM guide scope can make a big difference. He may be choosing to stick with the OAG setup to minimise flexure and not to
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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                Ya the light gathering ability of an 80MM guide scope can make a big difference. He may be choosing to stick with the OAG setup to minimise flexure and not to mention mirror flop if he's using an SCT.

                --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "imontam" <monti@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi,
                > I've got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to autoguide with the Neximage and an OAG in my SC8. I couldn't see any stars at all. I presume it is possible to get such a setup working, but instead of continuing in that direction I abandoned the OAG alltogether and tried the Neximage in an 80mm refractor, using 5-inch rings that allow plenty of movement of the refractor tube. This setup works beautifully. I put the refractor under the OTA, on the counter-weight support bar, instead of the counter-weight. This way, balancing is easier, and the refractor assembly cant hit the forks of the SC8. I have no trouble finding guide stars, even in my light-drenched city-sky.
                >
                > Monti.
                >
                >
                > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Sipprell" <k.sipprell@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I kind of figured it's less than ideal. I'll check w/ the PHD folks.
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                >
              • ksipp01
                Thank you for the input. Funny, I was just pricing guide scopes before opening my email. I m novice enough to have only heard about flexure (so not really
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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                  Thank you for the input. Funny, I was just pricing guide scopes before opening my email. I'm novice enough to have only heard about flexure (so not really the reason) and thought the concept of OAG seemed like a reasonable/less expensive way to start guiding. My first attempt at M51 was actually a breeze. It took about 15 min to find guide star, several more to fiddle with focusing both cameras, but was able to guide for an hour. Needless to say I was very pleased. Come to find out, very luck as well. Since then not so easy w/ other targets, hence looking into other options.

                  In looking at some other posts….seems like RAW mod offers only minimal increase in sensitivity. Also sounds like it's not a big deal to do/reverse, so I might just try it….just wasn't interested in wasting too much time.

                  Also read that removing the ring below the guide eyepiece lowers it and increases light. Seems like that might interfere w/ imaging FOV….

                  I think ultimately I'll end up taking the guide scope plunge.

                  Thanks again,
                  Kevin





                  --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "tonkads" <tonkads@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ya the light gathering ability of an 80MM guide scope can make a big difference. He may be choosing to stick with the OAG setup to minimise flexure and not to mention mirror flop if he's using an SCT.
                  >
                  > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "imontam" <monti@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > I've got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to autoguide with the Neximage and an OAG in my SC8. I couldn't see any stars at all. I presume it is possible to get such a setup working, but instead of continuing in that direction I abandoned the OAG alltogether and tried the Neximage in an 80mm refractor, using 5-inch rings that allow plenty of movement of the refractor tube. This setup works beautifully. I put the refractor under the OTA, on the counter-weight support bar, instead of the counter-weight. This way, balancing is easier, and the refractor assembly cant hit the forks of the SC8. I have no trouble finding guide stars, even in my light-drenched city-sky.
                  > >
                  > > Monti.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Sipprell" <k.sipprell@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I kind of figured it's less than ideal. I'll check w/ the PHD folks.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • tonkads
                  Kevin, Join the autoguider group as well to see if you can gather any additional information before you strike out on the guide scope path. Maybe you just need
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 14, 2010
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                    Kevin,

                    Join the autoguider group as well to see if you can gather any additional information before you strike out on the guide scope path. Maybe you just need to invest in a decent guide scope and use the setup you already have. Flexure is the movement you get between the imaging scope and the guide scope. It all has to do with mounts, mount materials, the two different focusers, the quality of the guide scope, weight and balance changes and the scope tracks any objects, etc, etc. We who use a guide scope work endlessly to minimize the flexure. Your OAG, while having a smaller pickup mirror, is one of the desired entry level OAGs. Next level up is in the $500 - $700 range. But, you still need a better guide camera. Either watch for a used one for sale or ask (search) on the autoguide group page which one everyone likes. You'll be surprised at the diversity of answers but also the great information to help you choose.

                    Russ

                    --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "ksipp01" <k.sipprell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thank you for the input. Funny, I was just pricing guide scopes before opening my email. I'm novice enough to have only heard about flexure (so not really the reason) and thought the concept of OAG seemed like a reasonable/less expensive way to start guiding. My first attempt at M51 was actually a breeze. It took about 15 min to find guide star, several more to fiddle with focusing both cameras, but was able to guide for an hour. Needless to say I was very pleased. Come to find out, very luck as well. Since then not so easy w/ other targets, hence looking into other options.
                    >
                    > In looking at some other posts….seems like RAW mod offers only minimal increase in sensitivity. Also sounds like it's not a big deal to do/reverse, so I might just try it….just wasn't interested in wasting too much time.
                    >
                    > Also read that removing the ring below the guide eyepiece lowers it and increases light. Seems like that might interfere w/ imaging FOV….
                    >
                    > I think ultimately I'll end up taking the guide scope plunge.
                    >
                    > Thanks again,
                    > Kevin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "tonkads" <tonkads@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Ya the light gathering ability of an 80MM guide scope can make a big difference. He may be choosing to stick with the OAG setup to minimise flexure and not to mention mirror flop if he's using an SCT.
                    > >
                    > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "imontam" <monti@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi,
                    > > > I've got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to autoguide with the Neximage and an OAG in my SC8. I couldn't see any stars at all. I presume it is possible to get such a setup working, but instead of continuing in that direction I abandoned the OAG alltogether and tried the Neximage in an 80mm refractor, using 5-inch rings that allow plenty of movement of the refractor tube. This setup works beautifully. I put the refractor under the OTA, on the counter-weight support bar, instead of the counter-weight. This way, balancing is easier, and the refractor assembly cant hit the forks of the SC8. I have no trouble finding guide stars, even in my light-drenched city-sky.
                    > > >
                    > > > Monti.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Sipprell" <k.sipprell@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I kind of figured it's less than ideal. I'll check w/ the PHD folks.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks,
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • ksipp01
                    well I made the change to RAW. It s tough to know how much of a difference that made vs just getting better at ....but I m guiding away on M101. I ll hold off
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 15, 2010
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                      well I made the change to RAW. It's tough to know how much of a difference that made vs just getting better at ....but I'm guiding away on M101. I'll hold off on a more expensive camera...for now anyway, this seems to do the trick. still shopping for guide scope though.
                      Thanks for the help.

                      --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "tonkads" <tonkads@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Kevin,
                      >
                      > Join the autoguider group as well to see if you can gather any additional information before you strike out on the guide scope path. Maybe you just need to invest in a decent guide scope and use the setup you already have. Flexure is the movement you get between the imaging scope and the guide scope. It all has to do with mounts, mount materials, the two different focusers, the quality of the guide scope, weight and balance changes and the scope tracks any objects, etc, etc. We who use a guide scope work endlessly to minimize the flexure. Your OAG, while having a smaller pickup mirror, is one of the desired entry level OAGs. Next level up is in the $500 - $700 range. But, you still need a better guide camera. Either watch for a used one for sale or ask (search) on the autoguide group page which one everyone likes. You'll be surprised at the diversity of answers but also the great information to help you choose.
                      >
                      > Russ
                      >
                      > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "ksipp01" <k.sipprell@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thank you for the input. Funny, I was just pricing guide scopes before opening my email. I'm novice enough to have only heard about flexure (so not really the reason) and thought the concept of OAG seemed like a reasonable/less expensive way to start guiding. My first attempt at M51 was actually a breeze. It took about 15 min to find guide star, several more to fiddle with focusing both cameras, but was able to guide for an hour. Needless to say I was very pleased. Come to find out, very luck as well. Since then not so easy w/ other targets, hence looking into other options.
                      > >
                      > > In looking at some other posts….seems like RAW mod offers only minimal increase in sensitivity. Also sounds like it's not a big deal to do/reverse, so I might just try it….just wasn't interested in wasting too much time.
                      > >
                      > > Also read that removing the ring below the guide eyepiece lowers it and increases light. Seems like that might interfere w/ imaging FOV….
                      > >
                      > > I think ultimately I'll end up taking the guide scope plunge.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks again,
                      > > Kevin
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "tonkads" <tonkads@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Ya the light gathering ability of an 80MM guide scope can make a big difference. He may be choosing to stick with the OAG setup to minimise flexure and not to mention mirror flop if he's using an SCT.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "imontam" <monti@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi,
                      > > > > I've got my autoguiding up-and-running nicely, using Neximage and PHD guiding. There were several hurdles along the way. My original attempt was trying to autoguide with the Neximage and an OAG in my SC8. I couldn't see any stars at all. I presume it is possible to get such a setup working, but instead of continuing in that direction I abandoned the OAG alltogether and tried the Neximage in an 80mm refractor, using 5-inch rings that allow plenty of movement of the refractor tube. This setup works beautifully. I put the refractor under the OTA, on the counter-weight support bar, instead of the counter-weight. This way, balancing is easier, and the refractor assembly cant hit the forks of the SC8. I have no trouble finding guide stars, even in my light-drenched city-sky.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Monti.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In neximage@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Sipprell" <k.sipprell@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I kind of figured it's less than ideal. I'll check w/ the PHD folks.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Thanks,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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