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RE: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:

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  • misha.wolf@thomsonreuters.com
    Hi Lino, 1-3 are correct, AFAICS. I don t understand 4. We haven t discussed within the IPTC how to select which externally managed taxonomies should be
    Message 1 of 11 , May 26, 2010
      Hi Lino,

      1-3 are correct, AFAICS.

      I don't understand 4.

      We haven't discussed within the IPTC how to select which
      externally managed taxonomies should be represented at:

      http://cvx.iptc.org

      It might be that TIDM, for example, should be added.
      Would that be helpful?

      Misha


      -----Original Message-----
      From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lino_sg
      Sent: 26 May 2010 18:36
      To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:

      Hi Michael,

      Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:

      1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:

      <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />

      2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.

      3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of concepts with qcodes such as:
      - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
      - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
      - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"

      4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be purchased to resolve the codes.

      Would this be appropriate?Thanks.

      Regards
      Lino


      --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Lino
      >
      > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item (KI):
      > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
      > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
      > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled vocabularies)
      > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
      > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
      > different schemes into a KI.
      > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
      > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
      > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
      > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
      > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
      > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
      > concepts
      > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
      > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
      >
      > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
      > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes which
      > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that the
      > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
      > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
      > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
      > there try to resolve it on the Web.
      >
      > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org server (notice the cvx!):
      > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
      > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
      > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
      > KIs for free.
      >
      > Regards
      > Michael
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of lino_sg
      > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
      > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
      >
      > Hi Michael,
      >
      > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
      > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
      > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
      > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
      > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
      > other details of new companies being listed.
      >
      > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
      > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
      > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to a
      > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the following
      > IPTC catalog:
      >
      > "http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
      >
      > but the alias for ISIN:
      >
      > <scheme alias="isin" uri="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
      >
      > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
      > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
      >
      > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
      >
      > Regards
      > Lino
      >
      > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Lino
      > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge Item.
      > > You can download it from:
      > >
      > http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
      > > 6a.xml
      > >
      > > Find below the full XML.
      > > Michael
      > >
      > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
      > > <!--
      > > This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for production
      > > Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC - www.iptc.org
      > > Date: 2010-05-26
      > > -->
      > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
      > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912" version="1"
      > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
      > > xsi:schemaLocation="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
      > >
      > http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
      > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
      > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
      > > <catalogRef
      > > href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
      > > <catalogRef href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
      > > <itemMeta>
      > > <itemClass qcode="cinat:concept"/>
      > > <provider literal="iptc">
      > > <name>IPTC</name>
      > > </provider>
      > > <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
      > > </itemMeta>
      > > <conceptSet>
      > > <concept>
      > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
      > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
      > > <name>The ANG company</name>
      > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
      > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
      > > <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
      > > type="cpnat:organisation">
      > > <name>The IMP company</name>
      > > </related>
      > > </concept>
      > > <concept>
      > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
      > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
      > > <name>The IMP company</name>
      > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
      > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
      > > </concept>
      > > </conceptSet>
      > > </knowledgeItem>
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf
      > > Of lino_sg
      > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
      > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their relationships
      > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
      > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way of
      > > doing the following in G2?
      > >
      > > <NewsML>
      > > <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
      > > <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
      > > <TopicType FormalName="Company"/>
      > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
      > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
      > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
      > > <Property FormalName="CompanyType" Value="Listed"/></Topic>
      > > <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
      > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
      > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
      > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
      > > </TopicSet>
      > > </NewsML>
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > > Lino
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
      > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
      > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
      > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
      > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
      > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
      > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >




      ------------------------------------

      Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
      Yahoo! Groups Links





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    • Michael Steidl (IPTC)
      Hi Lino A few more clarifications: 1) it is recommended that a scheme URI and the individual concept URIs can be resolved on the Web, but in a strict sense it
      Message 2 of 11 , May 26, 2010
        Hi Lino

        A few more clarifications:

        1) it is recommended that a scheme URI and the individual concept URIs can
        be resolved on the Web, but in a strict sense it is not mandatory. If you
        circulate a list of concept URIs including e.g.
        http://example.org/newscodes/abd4918 and if you try to resolve this URI but
        you don't get a web response, then this URI is still formally valid.

        2) As you said in your item 2 you can provide the list of valid concept
        URIs/QCodes in any format you like: handwritten on paper, carved into stone,
        as a CSV, as Excel sheet, as Word document - or as a KI. It is only
        recommended if you want to do it "the G2 way" then use a KI.

        3) Your item 3 is not clear to me: is it about the
        distribution/communication of the QCodes or about their creation. I guess
        you must have an internal reference as provider first for what QCode
        represents which concept. But no mandatory need to make it publicly
        available.

        4) Do I get this right: your item 4 is about communicating how to get access
        to a full CV? If you resolve http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/ the
        returned web page tells: send 100 Euros to this account and you'll get a
        full list of all companies of this vocabulary with their names, send 200
        Euros and you will get their business addresses and annual turnovers too.
        And select the format of the list you like (handwritten, carved ...)

        Michael


        -----Original Message-----
        From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of lino_sg
        Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:36 PM
        To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:

        Hi Michael,

        Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I
        understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:

        1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:

        <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />

        2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my
        company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a
        point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in
        a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.

        3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of
        concepts with qcodes such as:
        - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
        - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
        - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"

        4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of
        concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web
        domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be
        purchased to resolve the codes.

        Would this be appropriate?Thanks.

        Regards
        Lino


        --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Lino
        >
        > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item
        (KI):
        > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
        > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
        > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled
        vocabularies)
        > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
        > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
        > different schemes into a KI.
        > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
        > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
        > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
        > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
        > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
        > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
        > concepts
        > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
        > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
        >
        > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
        > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes
        which
        > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that
        the
        > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
        > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
        > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
        > there try to resolve it on the Web.
        >
        > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org server (notice the cvx!):
        > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
        > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
        > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
        > KIs for free.
        >
        > Regards
        > Michael
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf
        > Of lino_sg
        > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
        > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
        >
        > Hi Michael,
        >
        > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
        > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
        > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
        > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
        > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
        > other details of new companies being listed.
        >
        > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
        > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
        > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to
        a
        > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the
        following
        > IPTC catalog:
        >
        > "http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
        >
        > but the alias for ISIN:
        >
        > <scheme alias="isin" uri="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
        >
        > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
        > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
        >
        > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
        >
        > Regards
        > Lino
        >
        > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Lino
        > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge Item.
        > > You can download it from:
        > >
        >
        http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
        > > 6a.xml
        > >
        > > Find below the full XML.
        > > Michael
        > >
        > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
        > > <!--
        > > This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for production
        > > Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC - www.iptc.org
        > > Date: 2010-05-26
        > > -->
        > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
        > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912" version="1"
        > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
        > > xsi:schemaLocation="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
        > >
        >
        http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
        > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
        > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
        > > <catalogRef
        > >
        href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
        > > <catalogRef href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
        > > <itemMeta>
        > > <itemClass qcode="cinat:concept"/>
        > > <provider literal="iptc">
        > > <name>IPTC</name>
        > > </provider>
        > > <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
        > > </itemMeta>
        > > <conceptSet>
        > > <concept>
        > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
        > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
        > > <name>The ANG company</name>
        > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
        > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
        > > <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
        > > type="cpnat:organisation">
        > > <name>The IMP company</name>
        > > </related>
        > > </concept>
        > > <concept>
        > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
        > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
        > > <name>The IMP company</name>
        > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
        > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
        > > </concept>
        > > </conceptSet>
        > > </knowledgeItem>
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf
        > > Of lino_sg
        > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
        > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their
        relationships
        > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
        > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way of
        > > doing the following in G2?
        > >
        > > <NewsML>
        > > <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
        > > <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
        > > <TopicType FormalName="Company"/>
        > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
        > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
        > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
        > > <Property FormalName="CompanyType" Value="Listed"/></Topic>
        > > <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
        > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
        > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
        > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
        > > </TopicSet>
        > > </NewsML>
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks
        > > Lino
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
        > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
        > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
        under
        > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
        > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
        > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
        > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >




        ------------------------------------

        Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
        Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
        http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
        the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • lino_sg
        Hi Misha, There are several codes in financial markets that could be useful; TIDM, MIC, SEDOL are some of the identifiers commonly used to identify securities.
        Message 3 of 11 , May 26, 2010
          Hi Misha,

          There are several codes in financial markets that could be useful; TIDM, MIC, SEDOL are some of the identifiers commonly used to identify securities. There are others used to identify industry sectors (e.g. gold mining, healthcare, aerospace, etc) which could be useful, e.g. FTSE'S Industry Classification Benchmark (ICB).

          Point #4 was just confirming that I could repeat #1 to #3 such that:

          <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/"
          <scheme alias="MIC" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/MIC/"
          <scheme alias="SEDOL" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/SEDOL/"
          <scheme alias="ICB" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/ICB/"

          and then each URI would resolve to a webpage where it is explained how to obtain the necessary data to resolve the various codes.

          Regards,
          Lino
          --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, <misha.wolf@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Lino,
          >
          > 1-3 are correct, AFAICS.
          >
          > I don't understand 4.
          >
          > We haven't discussed within the IPTC how to select which
          > externally managed taxonomies should be represented at:
          >
          > http://cvx.iptc.org
          >
          > It might be that TIDM, for example, should be added.
          > Would that be helpful?
          >
          > Misha
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lino_sg
          > Sent: 26 May 2010 18:36
          > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
          >
          > Hi Michael,
          >
          > Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:
          >
          > 1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:
          >
          > <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />
          >
          > 2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.
          >
          > 3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of concepts with qcodes such as:
          > - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
          > - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
          > - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"
          >
          > 4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be purchased to resolve the codes.
          >
          > Would this be appropriate?Thanks.
          >
          > Regards
          > Lino
          >
          >
          > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Lino
          > >
          > > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item (KI):
          > > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
          > > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
          > > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled vocabularies)
          > > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
          > > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
          > > different schemes into a KI.
          > > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
          > > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
          > > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
          > > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
          > > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
          > > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
          > > concepts
          > > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
          > > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
          > >
          > > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
          > > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes which
          > > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that the
          > > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
          > > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
          > > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
          > > there try to resolve it on the Web.
          > >
          > > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org server (notice the cvx!):
          > > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
          > > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
          > > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
          > > KIs for free.
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Michael
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > > Of lino_sg
          > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
          > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
          > >
          > > Hi Michael,
          > >
          > > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
          > > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
          > > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
          > > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
          > > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
          > > other details of new companies being listed.
          > >
          > > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
          > > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
          > > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to a
          > > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the following
          > > IPTC catalog:
          > >
          > > "http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
          > >
          > > but the alias for ISIN:
          > >
          > > <scheme alias="isin" uri="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
          > >
          > > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
          > > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
          > >
          > > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Lino
          > >
          > > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Lino
          > > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge Item.
          > > > You can download it from:
          > > >
          > > http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
          > > > 6a.xml
          > > >
          > > > Find below the full XML.
          > > > Michael
          > > >
          > > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
          > > > <!--
          > > > This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for production
          > > > Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC - www.iptc.org
          > > > Date: 2010-05-26
          > > > -->
          > > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
          > > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912" version="1"
          > > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
          > > > xsi:schemaLocation="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
          > > >
          > > http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
          > > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
          > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
          > > > <catalogRef
          > > > href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
          > > > <catalogRef href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
          > > > <itemMeta>
          > > > <itemClass qcode="cinat:concept"/>
          > > > <provider literal="iptc">
          > > > <name>IPTC</name>
          > > > </provider>
          > > > <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
          > > > </itemMeta>
          > > > <conceptSet>
          > > > <concept>
          > > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
          > > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
          > > > <name>The ANG company</name>
          > > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
          > > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
          > > > <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
          > > > type="cpnat:organisation">
          > > > <name>The IMP company</name>
          > > > </related>
          > > > </concept>
          > > > <concept>
          > > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
          > > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
          > > > <name>The IMP company</name>
          > > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
          > > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
          > > > </concept>
          > > > </conceptSet>
          > > > </knowledgeItem>
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
          > > Behalf
          > > > Of lino_sg
          > > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
          > > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
          > > >
          > > > Hi,
          > > >
          > > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their relationships
          > > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
          > > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way of
          > > > doing the following in G2?
          > > >
          > > > <NewsML>
          > > > <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
          > > > <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
          > > > <TopicType FormalName="Company"/>
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
          > > > <Property FormalName="CompanyType" Value="Listed"/></Topic>
          > > > <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
          > > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
          > > > </TopicSet>
          > > > </NewsML>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Thanks
          > > > Lino
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
          > > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
          > > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
          > > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
          > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
          > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
          > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > This email was sent to you by Thomson Reuters, the global news and information company.
          > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Thomson Reuters.
          >
        • lino_sg
          Hi Michael, On #3 - the idea would be to create the QCodes on-demand and only as part of the actual NewsML. e.g. when Company XYZ with ISIN=123 publishes and
          Message 4 of 11 , May 27, 2010
            Hi Michael,

            On #3 - the idea would be to create the QCodes on-demand and only as part of the actual NewsML. e.g. when Company XYZ with ISIN=123 publishes and regulatory announcement, then the our NewsML program would generate a qcode"isin:123" by obtaining the ISIN from our SQL DB by reading from the Instrument table where CompanyName=XYZ.

            On #4 - Yes. The idea would be to provide the user with info on how to subscribe to existing data products such which could be used to decode the qcodes provided in the NewsML in #3. (and no...they're not in stone tablets: )



            Regards,
            Lino

            --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Lino
            >
            > A few more clarifications:
            >
            > 1) it is recommended that a scheme URI and the individual concept URIs can
            > be resolved on the Web, but in a strict sense it is not mandatory. If you
            > circulate a list of concept URIs including e.g.
            > http://example.org/newscodes/abd4918 and if you try to resolve this URI but
            > you don't get a web response, then this URI is still formally valid.
            >
            > 2) As you said in your item 2 you can provide the list of valid concept
            > URIs/QCodes in any format you like: handwritten on paper, carved into stone,
            > as a CSV, as Excel sheet, as Word document - or as a KI. It is only
            > recommended if you want to do it "the G2 way" then use a KI.
            >
            > 3) Your item 3 is not clear to me: is it about the
            > distribution/communication of the QCodes or about their creation. I guess
            > you must have an internal reference as provider first for what QCode
            > represents which concept. But no mandatory need to make it publicly
            > available.
            >
            > 4) Do I get this right: your item 4 is about communicating how to get access
            > to a full CV? If you resolve http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/ the
            > returned web page tells: send 100 Euros to this account and you'll get a
            > full list of all companies of this vocabulary with their names, send 200
            > Euros and you will get their business addresses and annual turnovers too.
            > And select the format of the list you like (handwritten, carved ...)
            >
            > Michael
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of lino_sg
            > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:36 PM
            > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
            >
            > Hi Michael,
            >
            > Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I
            > understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:
            >
            > 1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:
            >
            > <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />
            >
            > 2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my
            > company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a
            > point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in
            > a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.
            >
            > 3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of
            > concepts with qcodes such as:
            > - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
            > - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
            > - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"
            >
            > 4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of
            > concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web
            > domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be
            > purchased to resolve the codes.
            >
            > Would this be appropriate?Thanks.
            >
            > Regards
            > Lino
            >
            >
            > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Lino
            > >
            > > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item
            > (KI):
            > > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
            > > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
            > > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled
            > vocabularies)
            > > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
            > > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
            > > different schemes into a KI.
            > > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
            > > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
            > > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
            > > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
            > > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
            > > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
            > > concepts
            > > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
            > > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
            > >
            > > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
            > > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes
            > which
            > > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that
            > the
            > > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
            > > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
            > > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
            > > there try to resolve it on the Web.
            > >
            > > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org server (notice the cvx!):
            > > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
            > > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
            > > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
            > > KIs for free.
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > Michael
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf
            > > Of lino_sg
            > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
            > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
            > >
            > > Hi Michael,
            > >
            > > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
            > > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
            > > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
            > > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
            > > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
            > > other details of new companies being listed.
            > >
            > > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
            > > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
            > > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to
            > a
            > > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the
            > following
            > > IPTC catalog:
            > >
            > > "http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
            > >
            > > but the alias for ISIN:
            > >
            > > <scheme alias="isin" uri="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
            > >
            > > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
            > > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
            > >
            > > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > Lino
            > >
            > > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Lino
            > > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge Item.
            > > > You can download it from:
            > > >
            > >
            > http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
            > > > 6a.xml
            > > >
            > > > Find below the full XML.
            > > > Michael
            > > >
            > > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
            > > > <!--
            > > > This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for production
            > > > Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC - www.iptc.org
            > > > Date: 2010-05-26
            > > > -->
            > > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
            > > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912" version="1"
            > > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
            > > > xsi:schemaLocation="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
            > > >
            > >
            > http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
            > > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
            > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
            > > > <catalogRef
            > > >
            > href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
            > > > <catalogRef href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
            > > > <itemMeta>
            > > > <itemClass qcode="cinat:concept"/>
            > > > <provider literal="iptc">
            > > > <name>IPTC</name>
            > > > </provider>
            > > > <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
            > > > </itemMeta>
            > > > <conceptSet>
            > > > <concept>
            > > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
            > > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
            > > > <name>The ANG company</name>
            > > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
            > > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
            > > > <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
            > > > type="cpnat:organisation">
            > > > <name>The IMP company</name>
            > > > </related>
            > > > </concept>
            > > > <concept>
            > > > <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
            > > > <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
            > > > <name>The IMP company</name>
            > > > <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
            > > > <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
            > > > </concept>
            > > > </conceptSet>
            > > > </knowledgeItem>
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
            > > Behalf
            > > > Of lino_sg
            > > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
            > > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their
            > relationships
            > > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
            > > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way of
            > > > doing the following in G2?
            > > >
            > > > <NewsML>
            > > > <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
            > > > <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
            > > > <TopicType FormalName="Company"/>
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
            > > > <Property FormalName="CompanyType" Value="Listed"/></Topic>
            > > > <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
            > > > <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
            > > > </TopicSet>
            > > > </NewsML>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > > Lino
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
            > > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
            > > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
            > under
            > > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
            > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
            > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
            > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
            > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
            > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
            > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Darko Gulija
            Just a two quick notes: 1. It is highly desirable (if not even mandarory) that conceptURI (when expanded from a qcode) also resolves to something: - it
            Message 5 of 11 , May 27, 2010
              Just a two quick notes: 

              1. It is highly desirable (if not even mandarory)  that conceptURI (when "expanded" from a qcode) also resolves to something: 
              - it could be a web page of the scheme (but then concpet URI should be in form http://sheme.uri#conceptCode)
              - it could be a web page of individual concept (which is independent from creating knowledgeItem)
              -- in that case, conceptURI could be available in human readable or machine readable form (if content negotiation is implemented).

              2. The scheme URI you use should be under you control (e.g. in your domain) or some "agreed" uri resolving to a page describing the scheme and possibly codes (like iptc created "cvx" pages for endorsed schemes like ISO country codes, stock exchanges etc).

              It would be wrong if schemeURI points directly to the web page of the (stock) exchange, especially without previous agreement with the exchange in question. (if I understood correctly your point No 4)

              BR, 

              Darko

              2010/5/26 lino_sg <lino_sg@...>
              Hi Michael,

              Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:

              1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:

              <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />

              2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.

              3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of concepts with qcodes such as:
                  - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
                  - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
                  - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"

              4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be purchased to resolve the codes.

              Would this be appropriate?Thanks.

              Regards
              Lino


              --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Lino
              >
              > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item (KI):
              > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
              > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
              > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled vocabularies)
              > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
              > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
              > different schemes into a KI.
              > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
              > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
              > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
              > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
              > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
              > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
              > concepts
              > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
              > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
              >
              > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
              > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes which
              > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that the
              > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
              > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
              > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
              > there try to resolve it on the Web.
              >
              > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org server (notice the cvx!):
              > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
              > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
              > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
              > KIs for free.
              >
              > Regards
              > Michael
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of lino_sg
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
              > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
              >
              > Hi Michael,
              >
              > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
              > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
              > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
              > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
              > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
              > other details of new companies being listed.
              >
              > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
              > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
              > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to a
              > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the following
              > IPTC catalog:
              >
              > "http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
              >
              > but the alias for ISIN:
              >
              > <scheme alias="isin" uri="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
              >
              > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
              > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
              >
              > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
              >
              > Regards
              > Lino
              >
              > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Lino
              > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge Item.
              > > You can download it from:
              > >
              > http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
              > > 6a.xml
              > >
              > > Find below the full XML.
              > > Michael
              > >
              > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
              > > <!--
              > >     This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for production
              > >     Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC - www.iptc.org
              > >     Date: 2010-05-26
              > > -->
              > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
              > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912" version="1"
              > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
              > > xsi:schemaLocation="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
              > >
              > http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
              > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
              > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
              > >     <catalogRef
              > > href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
              > >     <catalogRef href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
              > >     <itemMeta>
              > >             <itemClass qcode="cinat:concept"/>
              > >             <provider literal="iptc">
              > >                     <name>IPTC</name>
              > >             </provider>
              > >             <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
              > >     </itemMeta>
              > >     <conceptSet>
              > >             <concept>
              > >                     <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
              > >                     <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
              > >                     <name>The ANG company</name>
              > >                     <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
              > >                     <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
              > >                     <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
              > > type="cpnat:organisation">
              > >                             <name>The IMP company</name>
              > >                     </related>
              > >             </concept>
              > >             <concept>
              > >                     <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
              > >                     <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
              > >                     <name>The IMP company</name>
              > >                     <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
              > >                     <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
              > >             </concept>
              > >     </conceptSet>
              > > </knowledgeItem>
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf
              > > Of lino_sg
              > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
              > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their relationships
              > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
              > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way of
              > > doing the following in G2?
              > >
              > > <NewsML>
              > >  <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
              > >     <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
              > >       <TopicType FormalName="Company"/>
              > >             <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
              > >     <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
              > >         <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
              > >     <Property FormalName="CompanyType" Value="Listed"/></Topic>
              > >     <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
              > >      <FormalName Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
              > >      <FormalName Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
              > >      <FormalName Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
              > >  </TopicSet>
              > > </NewsML>
              > >
              > >
              > > Thanks
              > > Lino
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
              > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
              > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
              > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
              > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
              > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
              > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >




              ------------------------------------

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            • misha.wolf@thomsonreuters.com
              Item 1 is certainly highly desirable and it is also certainly not mandatory. Re the last point, if the exchange (etc) was happy to provide a page describing
              Message 6 of 11 , May 27, 2010

                Item 1 is certainly highly desirable and it is also certainly not mandatory.

                 

                Re the last point, if the exchange (etc) was happy to provide a page describing the scheme and to undertake to keep its URI working indefinitely, then that would be perfectly acceptable.

                 

                Misha

                 

                 

                From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Darko Gulija
                Sent: 27 May 2010 10:21
                To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:

                 



                Just a two quick notes: 

                 

                1. It is highly desirable (if not even mandarory)  that conceptURI (when "expanded" from a qcode) also resolves to something: 

                - it could be a web page of the scheme (but then concpet URI should be in form http://sheme.uri#conceptCode)

                - it could be a web page of individual concept (which is independent from creating knowledgeItem)

                -- in that case, conceptURI could be available in human readable or machine readable form (if content negotiation is implemented).

                 

                2. The scheme URI you use should be under you control (e.g. in your domain) or some "agreed" uri resolving to a page describing the scheme and possibly codes (like iptc created "cvx" pages for endorsed schemes like ISO country codes, stock exchanges etc).

                 

                It would be wrong if schemeURI points directly to the web page of the (stock) exchange, especially without previous agreement with the exchange in question. (if I understood correctly your point No 4)

                 

                BR, 

                 

                Darko

                2010/5/26 lino_sg <lino_sg@...>

                Hi Michael,

                Thanks for the clarification around the KI vs. CV concepts. So, if I understand correctly, could I then do the following as an example:

                1) In my catalog definition, I include the following scheme alias:

                <scheme alias="TIDM" uri="http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" />

                2) The "http://mydomain.com/newscodes/TIDM/" URI resolves to a webpage on my company domain where it is explained that a full list of TIDM codes(at a point in time) is available from the Exchange using existing feeds (e.g. in a bulk CSV format) and via daily FTP downloads refreshes.

                3) I DO NOT however, create an actual CV/KI with an exhaustive list of concepts with qcodes such as:
                    - qcode="TIDM:ABC"
                    - qcode="TIMD:KKK"
                    - qcode="TIDM:XYZ"

                4) If it would be correct to do the above, then I can create any number of concepts defined by an URI which resolves to webpage on the Exchanges web domain explaining which existing Exchange downloads and feeds can be purchased to resolve the codes.

                Would this be appropriate?Thanks.


                Regards
                Lino


                --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...> wrote:

                >
                > Hi Lino
                >
                > You may have made too far-reaching assumptions about a Knowledge Item
                (KI):
                > - A KI as such is only a container for concepts, nothing more.
                > - it is fully up to the provider how to fill a KI.
                > - There is no strict relationship between schemes (controlled
                vocabularies)
                > and KIs, in other words: there is no requirement, that a KI must include a
                > full scheme and not only a part of it. One may even mix concepts from 5
                > different schemes into a KI.
                > - But: a provider can expect that concepts are cached on the user side.
                > To explain a practical approach taken from your example
                > - Provider X maintains a scheme of 75,000 companies
                > - Provider X releases a KI with 75,000 concepts on 25 May.
                > - the receivers of this KI cache the 75,000 concepts.
                > - on 26 May Provider X adds 5 companies and releases a KI with only 5
                > concepts
                > - the receivers add these 5 concepts to their cache.
                > - Both sides have a scheme of 75,005 companies available.
                >
                > With reference to what you wrote below: the cache on the receiver's side
                > must be updated regularly, this is done by releasing a KI with changes
                which
                > should be applied to this cache. This fully supports your thinking that
                the
                > users should maintain the concepts in their own databases. A processing
                > model on the receiver's side should be: any concept URI should be resolved
                > first against the local and caching database, if the URI is not available
                > there try to resolve it on the Web.
                >
                > Re vocabularies on the http://cvx.iptc.org
                server (notice the cvx!):
                > That are vocabularies not owned and not maintained by the IPTC, in most of
                > these cases the IPTC would have to pay license fees delivering them as a
                > Knowledge Item - therefore we have to say sorry, but we can't provide such
                > KIs for free.
                >
                > Regards
                > Michael
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of lino_sg
                > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:14 AM
                > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: NewsML G1 vs G2:
                >
                > Hi Michael,
                >
                > Thanks for your conversion of G1 to G2. This would be ideal if the set of
                > companies was stable, but because new companies are created virtually
                > everyday, the Knowledge Item would need to be updated daily, which is not
                > appealing. Now ,the Exchange provides feeds (for a fee) which indicates
                > changes to existing companies and provides subscribers with the codes and
                > other details of new companies being listed.
                >
                > I would prefer to maintain a Knowledge Item, but rather have the clients
                > use the Exchange's feeds and their own databases to resolve the codes.
                > Would I just need to point the QCode to an URI but not actually resolve to
                a
                > Knowledge Item? For example, the ISIN codes are referenced by the
                following
                > IPTC catalog:
                >
                > "
                href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml" target="_blank">http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_10.xml"
                >
                > but the alias for ISIN:
                >
                > <scheme alias="isin" uri="
                href="http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" target="_blank">http://cvx.iptc.org/isin/" />
                >
                > only points to an IPTC web page indicating the authority and ISO codes
                > behind ISIN - there is no G2 Knowledge Item.
                >
                > Could I use this as a way of avoiding updating the KI on a daily basis?
                >
                > Regards
                > Lino
                >
                > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com,
                "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Lino
                > > I've transformed your NewsML 1 example into a NewsML-G2 Knowledge
                Item.
                > > You can download it from:
                > >
                >
                href="http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2" target="_blank">http://www.iptc.org/std-dev/NewsML-G2/2.4/examples/lino_sg-Example-2010-05-2
                > > 6a.xml
                > >
                > > Find below the full XML.
                > > Michael
                > >
                > > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
                > > <!--
                > >     This is an example Knowledge Item not intended for
                production
                > >     Created: Michael Steidl for the IPTC -
                href="http://www.iptc.org" target="_blank">www.iptc.org
                > >     Date: 2010-05-26
                > > -->
                > > <knowledgeItem standard="NewsML-G2" standardversion="2.4"
                > > guid="urn:newsml:iptc.org:20100526:exampleCI-0912"
                version="1"
                > > conformance="power" xml:lang="en"
                > > xsi:schemaLocation="
                target="_blank">http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/
                > >
                >
                href="http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt" target="_blank">http://www.iptc.org/std/NewsML-G2/2.4/specification/NAR_1.5-spec-KnowledgeIt
                > > em-Power.xsd" xmlns="
                href="http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/" target="_blank">http://iptc.org/std/nar/2006-10-01/"
                > > xmlns:xsi="
                target="_blank">http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
                > >     <catalogRef
                > > href="
                href="http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml" target="_blank">http://www.iptc.org/std/catalog/catalog.IPTC-G2-Standards_11.xml"/>
                > >     <catalogRef href="
                href="http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml" target="_blank">http://www.example.org/lino_sg-catalog-v1.xml"/>
                > >     <itemMeta>
                > >             <itemClass
                qcode="cinat:concept"/>
                > >             <provider
                literal="iptc">
                > >                    
                <name>IPTC</name>
                > >             </provider>
                > >            
                <versionCreated>2010-05-26T09:16:00+00:00</versionCreated>
                > >     </itemMeta>
                > >     <conceptSet>
                > >             <concept>
                > >                    
                <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:ANG"/>
                > >                    
                <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
                > >                    
                <name>The ANG company</name>
                > >                    
                <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE123"/>
                > >                    
                <sameAs qcode="TIDM:ANG"/>
                > >                    
                <related qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"
                > > type="cpnat:organisation">
                > >                    
                        <name>The IMP company</name>
                > >                    
                </related>
                > >             </concept>
                > >             <concept>
                > >                    
                <conceptId qcode="CompanyAlphaCode:IMP"/>
                > >                    
                <type qcode="cpnat:organisation"/>
                > >                    
                <name>The IMP company</name>
                > >                    
                <sameAs qcode="isin:ZAE999"/>
                > >                    
                <sameAs qcode="TIDM:10RF"/>
                > >             </concept>
                > >     </conceptSet>
                > > </knowledgeItem>
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf
                > > Of lino_sg
                > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:37 PM
                > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [newsml-g2] NewsML G1 vs G2:
                > >
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > Related to my previous questions around companies and their
                relationships
                > > and attributes, I have the following G1 NewsML which defines these
                > > relationships and attributes quite nicely. What is the equivalent way
                of
                > > doing the following in G2?
                > >
                > > <NewsML>
                > >  <TopicSet FormalName="Companies">
                > >     <Topic Duid="PrimaryCompany">
                > >       <TopicType
                FormalName="Company"/>
                > >             <FormalName
                Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">ANG</FormalName>
                > >     <FormalName
                Scheme="ISIN">ZAE123</FormalName>
                > >         <FormalName
                Scheme="TIDM">ANG</FormalName>
                > >     <Property FormalName="CompanyType"
                Value="Listed"/></Topic>
                > >     <Topic Duid="RelatedCompany1">
                > >      <FormalName
                Scheme="CompanyAlphaCode">IMP</FormalName>
                > >      <FormalName
                Scheme="ISIN">ZAE999</FormalName>
                > >      <FormalName
                Scheme="TIDM">10RF</FormalName>
                > >  </TopicSet>
                > > </NewsML>
                > >
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > > Lino
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
                > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
                > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp.
                Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
                > > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
                > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
                > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp.
                Any posting is assumed to be submitted under
                > the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >




                ------------------------------------

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