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RE: [newsml-2] RE: Clashing scheme declaration

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  • Misha Wolf
    ... I disagree. Misha To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 3 7:12 AM
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      Michael wrote:

      > These processing considerations led me to preferring a first
      > full table build and then applying all the replace instructions.

      I disagree.

      Misha


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    • John Cowan
      ... Except that these annotations have to be applied in a non-persistent way, since there is no URI that refers to a catalog-as-annotated-by-X. Consequently,
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 3 8:12 AM
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        Misha Wolf scripsit:

        > And so, there is an advantage in the aggregator passing on the
        > external catalogs referenced in the aggregated content, with one or
        > two "annotations" needed in order to resolve alias clashes. The
        > recipients are likely to have these catalogs cached and all they
        > have to do is locally apply the "annotations", before fully
        > processing the package item.

        Except that these annotations have to be applied in a non-persistent
        way, since there is no URI that refers to a catalog-as-annotated-by-X.
        Consequently, since consumers often get lots of items from the same
        aggregator, they wind up applying the annotations over and over.

        We could resolve this by allowing a catalog element to contain an
        @extends attribute which says "This catalog extends the named
        catalog with changes". But on the whole, since catalogs are immutable,
        I think it's just as easy for the aggregator to publish "his own
        version" of an upstream catalog with his patches installed, and then
        always refer to this version when retrieving metadata items described
        in the upstream catalog.

        That continues to keep things simple and stable for the consumer, who
        at most has to retrieve a few extra catalogs for aggregated items.
        If this standard isn't simple for consumers, it won't get traction.

        --
        What asininity could I have uttered John Cowan <cowan@...>
        that they applaud me thus? http://www.ap.org
        --Phocion, Greek orator http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
      • Laurent Le Meur
        ... +1 ... +1000 Laurent -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This e-mail, and any file transmitted with it, is confidential and intended solely for
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 3 8:24 AM
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          > ... , since catalogs are immutable,
          > I think it's just as easy for the aggregator to publish "his own
          > version" of an upstream catalog with his patches installed, and then
          > always refer to this version when retrieving metadata items described
          > in the upstream catalog.

          +1

          > That continues to keep things simple and stable for the consumer, who
          > at most has to retrieve a few extra catalogs for aggregated items.
          > If this standard isn't simple for consumers, it won't get traction.

          +1000

          Laurent


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        • Laurent Le Meur
          ... Yes. The prerequisite is that he has programmed incoming scheme declarations which are of interest for him. (so, aliases would still clash when recipient
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 3 8:29 AM
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            > Darko Gulija
            > Does it mean that the following assertions are true:
            > 1. When creating a Package Item from the items from various sources, an
            > aggregator MUST NOT use clashing aliases at all, but map them to the aliases
            > from its own catalog

            Yes. The prerequisite is that he has "programmed" incoming scheme declarations
            which are of interest for him.

            (so, aliases would still clash when recipient parses
            > all the catalogs, but they would not be used in hints to denote any
            > metadata; thus, the collision would be avoided).

            No, because the items provided by different providers are independent. There is
            NO clashing aliases in the news items. There is NO clasing aliases in the
            package item neither because the package uses the aggregator's catalog.

            > 2. It is not an error it the clashing alias exists only in catalogs, but is
            > not used in any metadata value. Such aliases SHOULD be ignored.
            > 3. When receiving the item that contains clashing scheme aliases, an
            > recipient MUST NOT use the metadata with aliases that clash. It MAY signal
            > warning or silently ignore them ("MUST NOT" because it is impossible to tell
            > which of the two is wrong, so the real meaning/value of the metadata is not
            > known).

            This is of no use in the context I describe.
            Laurent



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          • Misha Wolf
            ... Is this a case of vote early, vote often ? Misha To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com Any views expressed in this message are those
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 3 8:33 AM
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              Laurent wrote:

              > +1000

              Is this a case of "vote early, vote often"?

              Misha


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            • Misha Wolf
              Whether we nest the alias replacement instruction within a element or within a element, AND whether it contains just two aliases or two
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 6 5:31 AM
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                Whether we nest the alias replacement instruction within a <catalog>
                element or within a <catalogRef> element, AND whether it contains
                just two aliases or two aliases and a URI, we should not use the
                <scheme> element for this purpose, but rather a different element,
                called, say, <replace>. The advantages include:

                - the element can be made part of the power profile,

                - restrictions can be imposed via XML Scheme on where the element
                may appear.

                There are two possible syntaxes:

                <replace alias="..." with "..."/>

                <replace uri="..." alias="..." with "..."/>

                This makes me wonder whether we should write:

                <scheme uri="..." alias="..."/>
                <!--
                I am using scheme "..." and am locally representing it using the
                alias "..."
                -->

                rather than (at present):

                <scheme alias="..." uri="..."/>
                <!--
                When you see the alias "...", interpret it as the scheme "..."/>
                -->

                Note also that we may, later, wish to add a @type, eg:

                <scheme uri="..." type="..." alias="..."/>
                <!--
                I am using scheme "..." for "..." and am locally representing it
                by "..."
                -->

                For example:

                <scheme
                uri="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO4217#Currency_Numeric_Codes"
                type="type:cur"
                alias="iso4217"/>
                <!--
                I am using scheme
                "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO4217#Currency_Numeric_Codes"
                for currencies and am locally representing it by "iso4217"
                -->


                Misha

                NewsML 2 resources:
                http://www.iptc.org/ | http://www.iptc.org/NAR/
                http://www.iptc.org/NAR/1.0 | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newsml-2/


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              • Laurent Le Meur
                Hope you are joking. A CURIE in what helps defining CURIEs... a catalog with a catalogRef at the top. Never. Laurent ...
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 6 6:22 AM
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                  Hope you are joking. A CURIE in what helps defining CURIEs... a catalog with a
                  catalogRef at the top. Never.
                  Laurent

                  >
                  > Note also that we may, later, wish to add a @type, eg:
                  >
                  > <scheme uri="..." type="..." alias="..."/>
                  > <!--
                  > I am using scheme "..." for "..." and am locally representing it
                  > by "..."
                  > -->
                  >
                  > For example:
                  >
                  > <scheme
                  > uri="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO4217#Currency_Numeric_Codes"
                  > type="type:cur"
                  > alias="iso4217"/>
                  > <!--
                  > I am using scheme
                  > "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO4217#Currency_Numeric_Codes"
                  > for currencies and am locally representing it by "iso4217"
                  > -->
                  >
                  >
                  > Misha
                  >


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                • Misha Wolf
                  ... I think that we should take this approach for now. If it proves inadequate for an important set of cases, we can always add the kind of feature we ve been
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 6 6:46 AM
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                    Michael wrote:

                    > - for package items the provider must provide either one (or a
                    > smal set of) pre-reconciled external catalog(s) - presumably
                    > maintained by him - OR only reconciled and on-the-fly created
                    > inline catalogs.
                    >
                    > This should work.

                    I think that we should take this approach for now. If it proves
                    inadequate for an important set of cases, we can always add the kind
                    of feature we've been discussing.

                    Misha

                    NewsML 2 resources:
                    http://www.iptc.org/ | http://www.iptc.org/NAR/
                    http://www.iptc.org/NAR/1.0 | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newsml-2/


                    To find out more about Reuters visit www.about.reuters.com

                    Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd.
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