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Re: Picture vs still graphic

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  • laurent_le_meur
    Hi Kelvin, If I remember well, our original approach was mainly to differentiate vector graphics ( real graphics) from bitmap images (news pictures). Vector
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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      Hi Kelvin,

      If I remember well, our original approach was mainly to differentiate vector graphics ("real" graphics) from bitmap images (news pictures). Vector graphics often use dpi (dots per inch) as a resolution unit, i.e. "The recommended printing resolution for an image". The use of dpi for vector graphics is related to the mix of vector and bitmap data in graphics, as explained at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dots_per_inch ; I add that it is also related to the density of information in the image (more details in a graphic implies more space to display it).

      I'm not sure about the choice of "points" as a default unit for graphics height and width.

      Bonne année 2012 (in french in the text)

      Laurent Le Meur
      AlloCiné

      --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, Kelvin Holland <kholland@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Philippe,
      >
      > I think the default dimension units were chosen for convenience:
      > graphics tools such as Illustrator/Freehand default to the typographic
      > measure of points, whereas image editing tools like Photoshop default to
      > screen resolution measure of pixels.
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Kelvin
      >
      > On 30/12/2011 13:38, Philippe Mougin wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks Kelvin, that helps a lot. This way of classifying picture and
      > > graphic documents suits us well I thinks. I now understand that this
      > > is defined by the content, not by technical characteristics like the
      > > format. Still, I'm curious about the difference between pictures and
      > > graphics regarding their default dimension units: table 254 in the
      > > spec states that it is pixels for pictures and points for graphics.
      > > What is the rational for this?
      > >
      > > Best,
      > > Philippe
      > >
    • Michael Steidl (IPTC)
      Hi Philippe, Kelvin, Laurent, .... a few comments from my side on discussed topics. * about default units for the dimension: using the term default means
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 3, 2012
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        Hi Philippe, Kelvin, Laurent, ....
        a few comments from my side on discussed topics.

        * about default units for the dimension: using the term "default" means that
        only if a G2 items has set a content characteristic @width but no
        @dimensionunit this default unit applies. In other words: if you want to use
        a different unit than the default one simply add a @dimensionunit of your
        choice.

        * aside on any @dimensionunit "[something]-per-inch": I never understood
        what this unit is good for as content characteristic as this measuring per
        inch only applies if the content is rendered out = printed, displayed on a
        screen etc. At the IPTC working group calls we agreed that this could be a
        hint, a recommendation but nothing more. That was the reason for selecting
        "points" as default dimension unit.

        * about "what is a picture, what a graphic": Kelvin gave a good guideline
        where to draw the line - but there is still a grey zone: what about an image
        which is composed of photos. I'm inclined to categorize it as graphic but
        there might be other views.

        Happy New Year to all on this Yahoo group

        Michael


        Michael Steidl
        Managing Director of the IPTC [mdirector@...]
        International Press Telecommunications Council
        Web: www.iptc.org - on Twitter @IPTC
        Business office address:
        20 Garrick Street, London WC2E 9BT, United Kingdom
        Registered in England, company no 101096




        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-
        > g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurent_le_meur
        > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:01 PM
        > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: Picture vs still graphic
        >
        > Hi Kelvin,
        >
        > If I remember well, our original approach was mainly to differentiate
        vector
        > graphics ("real" graphics) from bitmap images (news pictures). Vector
        > graphics often use dpi (dots per inch) as a resolution unit, i.e. "The
        > recommended printing resolution for an image". The use of dpi for vector
        > graphics is related to the mix of vector and bitmap data in graphics, as
        > explained at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dots_per_inch ; I add that it
        is also
        > related to the density of information in the image (more details in a
        graphic
        > implies more space to display it).
        >
        > I'm not sure about the choice of "points" as a default unit for graphics
        height
        > and width.
        >
        > Bonne année 2012 (in french in the text)
        >
        > Laurent Le Meur
        > AlloCiné
        >
        > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, Kelvin Holland <kholland@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Philippe,
        > >
        > > I think the default dimension units were chosen for convenience:
        > > graphics tools such as Illustrator/Freehand default to the typographic
        > > measure of points, whereas image editing tools like Photoshop default
        > > to screen resolution measure of pixels.
        > >
        > > Regards
        > >
        > > Kelvin
        > >
        > > On 30/12/2011 13:38, Philippe Mougin wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks Kelvin, that helps a lot. This way of classifying picture and
        > > > graphic documents suits us well I thinks. I now understand that this
        > > > is defined by the content, not by technical characteristics like the
        > > > format. Still, I'm curious about the difference between pictures and
        > > > graphics regarding their default dimension units: table 254 in the
        > > > spec states that it is pixels for pictures and points for graphics.
        > > > What is the rational for this?
        > > >
        > > > Best,
        > > > Philippe
        > > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
        > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
        > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
        > under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Kostas Konstantoulis
        The picture vs graphic distinction should be only conceptual and based only on provider practices and conventions, since there could not be a technical one
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 3, 2012
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          The picture vs graphic distinction should be only conceptual and based only on provider practices and conventions, since there could not be a technical one based on format:

          • A picture may include text (remember old practices where photo caption was appended below the real photo).
          • A graphic could be completely designed in raster/bitmap based applications that support only raster formats.
          • An originally vector graphic can be saved in a raster format.
          • A vector format (e.g EPS) may be used for a photo.
          • Raster image formats may support animation (e.g GIF) that makes them candidates both for Animated Graphics as well as Pictures (since the content may still be photos)

           

          Kostas


          From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Steidl (IPTC)
          Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 1:37 PM
          To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [newsml-g2] Re: Picture vs still graphic

           

           

          Hi Philippe, Kelvin, Laurent, ....
          a few comments from my side on discussed topics.

          * about default units for the dimension: using the term "default" means that
          only if a G2 items has set a content characteristic @width but no
          @dimensionunit this default unit applies. In other words: if you want to use
          a different unit than the default one simply add a @dimensionunit of your
          choice.

          * aside on any @dimensionunit "[something]-per-inch": I never understood
          what this unit is good for as content characteristic as this measuring per
          inch only applies if the content is rendered out = printed, displayed on a
          screen etc. At the IPTC working group calls we agreed that this could be a
          hint, a recommendation but nothing more. That was the reason for selecting
          "points" as default dimension unit.

          * about "what is a picture, what a graphic": Kelvin gave a good guideline
          where to draw the line - but there is still a grey zone: what about an image
          which is composed of photos. I'm inclined to categorize it as graphic but
          there might be other views.

          Happy New Year to all on this Yahoo group

          Michael

          Michael Steidl
          Managing Director of the IPTC [mdirector@...]
          International Press Telecommunications Council
          Web: www.iptc.org - on Twitter @IPTC
          Business office address:
          20 Garrick Street, London WC2E 9BT, United Kingdom
          Registered in England, company no 101096

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-
          > g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of laurent_le_meur
          > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:01 PM
          > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: Picture vs still graphic
          >
          > Hi Kelvin,
          >
          > If I remember well, our original approach was mainly to differentiate
          vector
          > graphics ("real" graphics) from bitmap images (news pictures). Vector
          > graphics often use dpi (dots per inch) as a resolution unit, i.e. "The
          > recommended printing resolution for an image". The use of dpi for vector
          > graphics is related to the mix of vector and bitmap data in graphics, as
          > explained at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dots_per_inch ; I add that it
          is also
          > related to the density of information in the image (more details in a
          graphic
          > implies more space to display it).
          >
          > I'm not sure about the choice of "points" as a default unit for graphics
          height
          > and width.
          >
          > Bonne année 2012 (in french in the text)
          >
          > Laurent Le Meur
          > AlloCiné
          >
          > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, Kelvin Holland <kholland@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Philippe,
          > >
          > > I think the default dimension units were chosen for convenience:
          > > graphics tools such as Illustrator/Freehand default to the typographic
          > > measure of points, whereas image editing tools like Photoshop default
          > > to screen resolution measure of pixels.
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Kelvin
          > >
          > > On 30/12/2011 13:38, Philippe Mougin wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks Kelvin, that helps a lot. This way of classifying picture and
          > > > graphic documents suits us well I thinks. I now understand that this
          > > > is defined by the content, not by technical characteristics like the
          > > > format. Still, I'm curious about the difference between pictures and
          > > > graphics regarding their default dimension units: table 254 in the
          > > > spec states that it is pixels for pictures and points for graphics.
          > > > What is the rational for this?
          > > >
          > > > Best,
          > > > Philippe
          > > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
          > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
          > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
          > under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

        • Philippe Mougin
          Hi Kelvin & group, I m working on determining which item classes our systems must use (and when). Does your explanation of picture vs still graphic below
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 6, 2012
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            Hi Kelvin & group,

            I'm working on determining which item classes our systems must use (and when).

            Does your explanation of picture vs still graphic below translates to "video vs animated graphic" ?

            That is, a video would be "an animated visual representation of a physical object, person or scene", which includes the result of actual video shootings but also some computer generated 3D sequences or animated artist drawings. And an animated graphic would be for "an animated visual representation with symbolic content (e.g. animated chart, diagram, logo, map etc.)" ?

            Thanks,

            Philippe

            --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, Kelvin Holland <kholland@...> wrote:
            >
            > HI Philippe,
            >
            > The itemClass property allows the provider to identify the intended use
            > of the content, rather than a description of the format. Traditionally,
            > news organisations have managed and used pictures (photographic images)
            > in a different way to graphic art. These notions persist today and are
            > still quite useful: you see many many web pages where a text, chart and
            > picture (photo) are placed in specific consistent positions.
            >
            > The dictionary says a picture is a visual representation of a physical
            > object, person or scene. In news, most of the time this means a
            > photograph. Another example could be an artist's drawing. These can be
            > used to depict a scene that is inaccessible to photographers, for
            > example courtrooms in some countries..
            >
            > A graphic is a symbolic representation, often with text labels. for
            > example a map, company logo, or a chart.
            >
            > If you draw a chart illustrating "EU five-year growth forecast" in
            > Photoshop and save it in png format, it is still a graphic.
            >
            > A definition that aims to be precise might not be very useful, because
            > the terms are loose and are sometimes interpreted differently, but
            > without causing any major problems.
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Kelvin
            >
            > On 28/12/2011 10:21, Philippe Mougin wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > NewsML-G2 differentiates picture and still graphic content. One
            > > difference is that their news item nature are different concept URIs.
            > > Another difference is that they don't have the same default dimension
            > > units.
            > >
            > > But what content should be considered "picture" and what content
            > > should be considered "still graphic" ? For example, if I draw some
            > > graphic in Photoshop and save it in PNG format, is it a "picture" or a
            > > "still graphic", and why?
            > > Is there a comprehensive definition of item nature somewhere ?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > Philippe
            > >
            > >
            >
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