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RE: [newsml-g2] Re: Processing updates of concepts

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  • Michael Steidl (IPTC)
    Philippe, interesting approach (as always ;-) a) at the design level: yes this should work as both the GUID and the Concept Id should be a globally unique
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 13, 2011
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      Philippe,
      interesting approach (as always ;-)

      a) at the design level: yes this should work as both the GUID and the
      Concept Id should be a globally unique identifier.
      b) further the @guid attribute of an item's root element does not require a
      specific format.
      c) practical view:
      - Concept Ids must align to the design of QCodes: a code in a vocabulary,
      the vocabulary is identified by a URI, and the URI is shortened by an alias:
      Let's assume as example:
      Vocabulary (= Scheme) URI: http://eventprovider.com/events/
      Alias: myevent
      Code for a specific Concept / Event: e9911
      Concept Id as URI: http://eventprovider.com/events/e9911
      Concept Id as QCode: myevent:e9911
      As @guid of a <conceptItem>: <conceptItem
      guid="http://eventprovider.com/events/e9911" .... />

      So you only have to be careful *not* to use the QCode of the Concept Id in
      the @guid but the full Concept URI. Reason: the @guid attribute's data type
      is xs:string and not QCodeType, thus a receiving processor would not know
      that it should resolve the string being a QCode to a Concept URI which is
      the real identifier.

      Regards,
      Michael


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
      > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:51 AM
      > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: Processing updates of concepts
      >
      > In a system which is a provider of concepts (i.e., the system sends
      > concepts inside conceptItems to another program), I'm thinking about
      > using the concept URI as the guid of the conceptItem. That would
      > simplify the management of those identifiers (just one instead of two
      > to generate, store, etc.). Is that something compatible with the G2
      > standard? Do you see problems/disadvantages with this approach?
      > Best,
      > Philippe Mougin
      >
      > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)"
      > <mdirector@...> wrote:
      >
      > > you touch a sensitive area with having GUIDs for concept items and
      > Concept
      > > Ids in parallel.
      >
      > [...]
      >
      > > And this meets the G2 design: for concepts the relevant identifier is
      > the
      > > Concept Id and Concept Items or Knowledge Items (and their GUId) are
      > > considered to be only wrappers for management and transportation use.
      >
      > [...]
      >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > > > Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
      > > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:03 PM
      > > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Processing updates of concepts
      > > >
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > The implementation guide describes possible update process based on
      > the
      > > > sender issuing an item with the same GUID, and optionally a new
      > version
      > > > number (12.5.2 and 19.6). I'd be interested to get some
      > clarification
      > > > about some variations of this, that can arise when exchanging
      > concept
      > > > items.
      > > >
      > > > To give you some context, I'm developing a system that stores and
      > > > manages concepts (information about events, locations, etc.). I'm
      > using
      > > > NewsML-G2 as a way for other systems to send me information about
      > new
      > > > concepts or update of such information.
      > > >
      > > > Question: does the standard specify or provides guidelines on what
      > to
      > > > do when a receiver is sent a concept item with a new (i.e., never
      > > > received) GUID and no <link> to a previous version (as described in
      > > > 19.6 of imp. guide) , if the conveyed concept has a known (e.g.,
      > > > previously received) conceptId?
      > > >
      > > > Looks like we are in the case of multiple, independent concept
      > items
      > > > conveying information/update about the same concept, right? So,
      > can
      > > > the receiver interpret this as an update of the concept identified
      > by
      > > > the given conceptId?
      > > >
      > > > Bonus question: does the standard specify or provides guidelines on
      > > > what to do when a receiver gets a concept item with an existing
      > (i.e.,
      > > > previously received) GUID if the conveyed concept has a conceptId
      > > > different from the one sent previously in a concept item with the
      > same
      > > > GUID? In this case, it looks like a given concept item is re-used
      > over
      > > > time to convey information about different concepts. Is that a
      > correct
      > > > interpretation?
      > > >
      > > > Best,
      > > > Philippe Mougin
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
      > > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
      > > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be
      > submitted
      > > > under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
      > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
      > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
      > under the conditions of this IPTC IP Policy.
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Philippe Mougin
      Perfect. Exactly what I had in mind. Thanks, Philippe Mougin
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 14, 2011
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        Perfect. Exactly what I had in mind.
        Thanks,
        Philippe Mougin

        --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)" <mdirector@...> wrote:
        >
        > Philippe,
        > interesting approach (as always ;-)
        >
        > a) at the design level: yes this should work as both the GUID and the
        > Concept Id should be a globally unique identifier.
        > b) further the @guid attribute of an item's root element does not require a
        > specific format.
        > c) practical view:
        > - Concept Ids must align to the design of QCodes: a code in a vocabulary,
        > the vocabulary is identified by a URI, and the URI is shortened by an alias:
        > Let's assume as example:
        > Vocabulary (= Scheme) URI: http://eventprovider.com/events/
        > Alias: myevent
        > Code for a specific Concept / Event: e9911
        > Concept Id as URI: http://eventprovider.com/events/e9911
        > Concept Id as QCode: myevent:e9911
        > As @guid of a <conceptItem>: <conceptItem
        > guid="http://eventprovider.com/events/e9911" .... />
        >
        > So you only have to be careful *not* to use the QCode of the Concept Id in
        > the @guid but the full Concept URI. Reason: the @guid attribute's data type
        > is xs:string and not QCodeType, thus a receiving processor would not know
        > that it should resolve the string being a QCode to a Concept URI which is
        > the real identifier.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Michael
        >
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
        > > Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
        > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:51 AM
        > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Re: Processing updates of concepts
        > >
        > > In a system which is a provider of concepts (i.e., the system sends
        > > concepts inside conceptItems to another program), I'm thinking about
        > > using the concept URI as the guid of the conceptItem. That would
        > > simplify the management of those identifiers (just one instead of two
        > > to generate, store, etc.). Is that something compatible with the G2
        > > standard? Do you see problems/disadvantages with this approach?
        > > Best,
        > > Philippe Mougin
        > >
        > > --- In newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Steidl \(IPTC\)"
        > > <mdirector@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > you touch a sensitive area with having GUIDs for concept items and
        > > Concept
        > > > Ids in parallel.
        > >
        > > [...]
        > >
        > > > And this meets the G2 design: for concepts the relevant identifier is
        > > the
        > > > Concept Id and Concept Items or Knowledge Items (and their GUId) are
        > > > considered to be only wrappers for management and transportation use.
        > >
        > > [...]
        > >
        > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com]
        > > On
        > > > > Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
        > > > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 1:03 PM
        > > > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Processing updates of concepts
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi,
        > > > >
        > > > > The implementation guide describes possible update process based on
        > > the
        > > > > sender issuing an item with the same GUID, and optionally a new
        > > version
        > > > > number (12.5.2 and 19.6). I'd be interested to get some
        > > clarification
        > > > > about some variations of this, that can arise when exchanging
        > > concept
        > > > > items.
        > > > >
        > > > > To give you some context, I'm developing a system that stores and
        > > > > manages concepts (information about events, locations, etc.). I'm
        > > using
        > > > > NewsML-G2 as a way for other systems to send me information about
        > > new
        > > > > concepts or update of such information.
        > > > >
        > > > > Question: does the standard specify or provides guidelines on what
        > > to
        > > > > do when a receiver is sent a concept item with a new (i.e., never
        > > > > received) GUID and no <link> to a previous version (as described in
        > > > > 19.6 of imp. guide) , if the conveyed concept has a known (e.g.,
        > > > > previously received) conceptId?
        > > > >
        > > > > Looks like we are in the case of multiple, independent concept
        > > items
        > > > > conveying information/update about the same concept, right? So,
        > > can
        > > > > the receiver interpret this as an update of the concept identified
        > > by
        > > > > the given conceptId?
        > > > >
        > > > > Bonus question: does the standard specify or provides guidelines on
        > > > > what to do when a receiver gets a concept item with an existing
        > > (i.e.,
        > > > > previously received) GUID if the conveyed concept has a conceptId
        > > > > different from the one sent previously in a concept item with the
        > > same
        > > > > GUID? In this case, it looks like a given concept item is re-used
        > > over
        > > > > time to convey information about different concepts. Is that a
        > > correct
        > > > > interpretation?
        > > > >
        > > > > Best,
        > > > > Philippe Mougin
      • John Evans
        Hi all, I notice that the duration property for an audio/video newsItem is stored in the remotecontent element, implying that it could vary over different
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 14, 2011
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          Hi all,

          I notice that the duration property for an audio/video newsItem is stored in the remotecontent element, implying that it could vary over different renditions.

           

          Can anyone suggest an example where this might be the case, or should it be moved to the itemmeta section?

           

          Kind regards

           

          John Evans
          Managing Director
          Transtel Communications ltd
          www.Transtel.com

          44 (0)1451 812251

           

        • Michael Steidl (IPTC)
          John To clarify the reason for having a @duration: it is also available as attribute of inlineData and inlineXML. Conclusion: the attribute is made to provide
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 14, 2011
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            John

            To clarify the reason for having a @duration: it is also available as attribute of inlineData and inlineXML. Conclusion: the attribute is made to provide the duration of the content in general. And the general used case would be: the duration of different renditions is the same.

             

            Having this as background it makes sense to find out if there are use cases for which different durations are required – overruling the generic assumption.

             

            Michael

             

            From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Evans
            Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:34 AM
            To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [newsml-g2] duration property [Scanned]

             




            Hi all,

            I notice that the duration property for an audio/video newsItem is stored in the remotecontent element, implying that it could vary over different renditions.

             

            Can anyone suggest an example where this might be the case, or should it be moved to the itemmeta section?

             

            Kind regards

             

            John Evans
            Managing Director
            Transtel Communications ltd
            www.Transtel.com

            44 (0)1451 812251

             




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