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780RE: [newsml-g2] Properties of a concept

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  • Laurent LE MEUR
    Dec 23, 2008

      The object of a triple is not always a concept (a “resource” in RDF terms). It can be a “literal” value, and this is the case for the number of seats.

      To force a literal to be a resource identifier (e.g. facet=”nbseats:83”) is a non-sense for me.



      De : newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Michael Steidl (IPTC)
      Envoyé : mardi 23 décembre 2008 13:30
      À : Paul Harman; newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      Objet : RE: [newsml-g2] Properties of a concept


      On 23 Dec 2008 at 10:13  Paul Harman wrote:


      > From: Michael Steidl (IPTC) [mailto:mdirector@...]

      > > This way you could add e.g.

      > >       <related rel="poiProps:noOfSeats" literal="83" />

      > >       <related rel="poiProps:operator" qcode="pacompanies:UCI" />



      > Hmmm. These two things do not seem to be expressing the same type of

      > information. The second I can see as a relatioship between a cinema and

      > it's operator - i.e. between two conceptItems, or things that could be

      > modelled as conceptItems. However I don't think the number 83 is a

      > credible concept - it's rather abstract, evben more som than emotions

      > that are represented as concepts for describing images and videos - so

      > using related feels wrong to me.


      > Darko's suggestion of using facet (which I think may not be valid per

      > the specs) feels more 'right' to me. It's a property [or facet] of the

      > cinema that it has 83 seats, rather than a relationship between the

      > cinema and the number 83 of type 'numberOfSeats'. In NewsML1.x I would

      > have modelled this as <Property FormalName="NumberOfSeats" Value="83"/>

      > but there doesn't seem to be an equivalent comfortable mechanism here.




      <related> has no specific semantics - except that it refers to something with a kind of relationship which is indicated by @rel.


      The problem with <facet> is that is has no @literal attribute - thus Darko's proposal does not validate.


      In general: all the properties of an item must resolve to an RDF triple (this was an initial business requirement for G2) - subject / predicate / object:


      - the subject is always a part of "this" item, that could be the item as a whole or parts of it like a specific rendition, a part of a rendition, e.g. the paragraph of an article.


      - the predicate is the semantics of a property. E.g. <subject> translates to a predicate like "isAbout". And at this point all properties with a @rel attribute have a special role: they act as a generic container, the precise predicate is expressed by the value of the @rel. In this sense <related> is the most generic container, while a property like <facet> already scopes the relationships which make sense at this point.


      - and finally the object is the value of the property, expressed either as a code from a controlled vocabulary or a literal value


      This way one could express a property as an RDF triple in N3 notation as well:


      ConceptInThisItem hasNoOfSeats 83 .


      ConceptInThisItem hasOperator UCI .


      You see, 83 is a valid object of such a triple as UCI is. Therefore I can not agree with you that "83 is not a credible concept".





      > (Okay, so POI already has a 'capacity' element, which is great, I'll

      > use

      > that - but the point generalises).


      >          Paul


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