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1222RE: [newsml-g2] Relationship from concept to non G2 entities

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  • misha.wolf@thomsonreuters.com
    Sep 12, 2011
      Hi Philippe,

      This is a difficult issue. Thanks for raising it. We shall have to tweak the wording.

      Regarding ISO, I'm afraid that the same issue applies. As from 2011-08-09, the ISO 3166-1 codes SD and SDN identify a different country from the country they identified prior to that date [1]. In case someone thinks that the continuity of the country's name indicates a continuity of identity, they are mistaken. The numeric code assigned by the UN (which is reflected in the ISO 3166-1 numeric code) changed on 2011-07-09 [2].

      [1] http://www.iso.org/iso/nl_vi-10_south_sudan.pdf
      [2] http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49alpha.htm

      Misha


      -----Original Message-----
      From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
      Sent: 12 September 2011 11:34
      To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [newsml-g2] Relationship from concept to non G2 entities

      Thanks Misha and Michael.

      So, say I create a "locsysA" scheme as in Michael example, I would then instruct receivers that if they get a concept URI that starts with "http://cvx.anewsprovider.com/locationsystemA/" then the identifier in system A can be computed by removing this prefix from the URI and percent decoding what remains. Right?

      Still, I have a concern with this approach regarding G2 requirements and I would welcome guidance on this:

      G2 makes several requirements governing schemes and concepts URI. In particular, in 12.5.4.1 of the implementation guide (revision 3):
      - Concepts MUST NOT be deleted from a Scheme [...]
      - For the same reason, Concept IDs MUST NOT be re-cycled, i.e. the same identifier used for a different concept.

      The issue is that my non-G2 systems A and B do not work like that: sometimes they delete stuff and they even recycle identifiers. And while they are internal systems in my company, they are not under my control and I can't change their identifier management policies, even if I was to ask politely.

      This means that the concept URI http://cvx.anewsprovider.com/locationsystemA/654321 won't necessarily identify the same concept (i.e., the same location) forever, which seems to break the G2 requirements.

      This is probably an issue we don't have with ISO codes.

      So how would you approach the situation. Would you go ahead and consider its ok in such instances to loosen those G2 rules?

      Philippe

      Le 9 sept. 2011 à 17:01, Michael Steidl (IPTC) a écrit :

      > Adding to what Misha said: look at the http://cvx.iptc.org/ page: it provides scheme URIs for schemes which are a) not G2 compliant schemes by their authority and b) outside the governance of the IPTC. Despite of this we assign a scheme URI which points to a page which explains how to resolve the code.
      >
      > Let's go through Philippe's example
      >
      > Add to a catalog.
      > <scheme alias="locsysA" uri="http://cvx.anewsprovider.com/locationsystemA/" />
      > <scheme alias="locsysB" uri="http://cvx.anewsprovider.com/locationsystemB/" />
      >
      > Create web pages for these URIs explaining what location repository this is and that the code used for this scheme is the unique ID of a location in this system.
      >
      > Add sameAs to your concept:
      > <sameAs qcode="locsysA:654321" />
      > <sameAs qcode="locsysB:569843" />
      >
      > I guess that's it.
      >
      > Michael
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
      > > Behalf Of misha.wolf@...
      > > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:46 PM
      > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: RE: [newsml-g2] Relationship from concept to non G2 entities
      > >
      > > Hi Philippe,
      > >
      > > It doesn't matter whether systems A and B are G2-compliant. We use
      > > qcodes for everything, eg ISO country codes, ISO currency codes, etc.
      > > The relevant ISO standards say nothing about G2 but this doesn't make
      > > any difference.
      > >
      > > In "scheme:code", the "scheme" simply identifies the place that the
      > > "code" is taken from.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Misha
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com] On
      > > Behalf Of Philippe Mougin
      > > Sent: 09 September 2011 09:57
      > > To: newsml-g2@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [newsml-g2] Relationship from concept to non G2 entities
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > I have a G2-based system where I use a <concept> element to represent a
      > > particular location (the city of Paris). It happens that I also have
      > > two
      > > other systems (A and B), non G2 based, where I manage locations. These
      > > systems have their own identifiers for the city of Paris. In system A,
      > > the identifier is "654321" and in system B one the identifier is
      > > "569843".
      > >
      > > In my G2 <concept> I want to provide those identifiers as part of the
      > > concept description.
      > >
      > > At first glance, it seems that <sameAs> correctly express the
      > > relationship I want to represent. I my <concept> I would have:
      > >
      > > <sameAs type="cpnat:geoArea" literal="654321">
      > > <sameAs type="cpnat:geoArea" literal="569843">
      > >
      > > But of course this doesn't work because for any meaningful processing I
      > > would also need to know that the first one relates to system A and the
      > > second one relates to system B.
      > >
      > > I can't use qcode instead of literal as system A and system B aren't
      > > G2-based and consequently don't expose their identifiers through G2
      > > QCodes. I could create such schemes myself but since my goal is to
      > > communicate the identifiers of Paris in A and B (and not in newly
      > > created ad hoc schemes) that would be self defeating.
      > >
      > > So how would you approach the problem ?
      > >
      > > Note : as a fallback I'm thinking about using <remoteInfo> elements.
      > > For
      > > example :
      > >
      > > <remoteInfo rel="rels:equivalent-in-systemA" residref="654321">
      > > <remoteInfo rel="rels:equivalent-in-systemB" residref="569843">
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > Philippe
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Any member of this IPTC moderated Yahoo group must comply with the
      > > Intellectual Property Policy of the IPTC, available at
      > > http://www.iptc.org/goto/ipp. Any posting is assumed to be submitted
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      > >
      >
      >



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