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Re: Do you actually believe the Bible is God's word???

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  • previouslaw
    Hi, quranicverse99 Scripture is OT & NT combined. I believe in it. And in full. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 1, 2002
      Hi, quranicverse99

      Scripture is OT & NT combined. I believe in it. And in full.

      2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
      profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
      in righteousness:

      Gospel is "Good News", not NT or 4 Gospels. It is for mankind that
      can be saved from OT to NT through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

      You erred. Quran erred.

      As questions you raised, please refer to

      I hope all christians here are familiar with the site above and ready
      for answers. I hope Muslims here are also familiar with the site
      above for answers before you cut paste other's information blindly.

      Let us see some lip services or just lies from Quran also:

      Surah3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee, in truth, the Book,
      confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law and the
      Gospel before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the


      Surah 4: 136. O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger,
      and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the
      scripture which He sent TO THOSE BEFORE. Any who denieth Allah, His
      angels, HIS BOOKS, His Messenger., and the Day of Judgment, HATH GONE


      Surah 5: 46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary,
      therein was guidance and light, and CONFIRMATION OF THE LAW that had


      THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are
      those who rebel.
      48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, CONFIRMING THE SCRIPTURE
      THAT CAME BEFORE IT, AND GUARDING IT IN SAFETY: so judge between them
      by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires,
      diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you
      have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He
      would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in
      what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The
      goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of
      the matters in which ye dispute;


      Surah 15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and WE WILL
      ASSUREDLY GUARD IT (from corruption).


      Surah 16:43. And before thee also THE APOSTLES WE SENT were but men,
      to whom WE GRANTED INSPIRATION: if ye realise this not, ASK OF THOSE


      Let us see what is scriptures and Gospels. I bet you cannot find them
      in Quran because Quran has all this words corrupted despites its
      recognition by lip service that Allah has guarded from corruption:

      Let us see what Bible says of Scriptures

      (Mat 22:29 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not
      knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

      (Mark 12:24 KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not
      therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power
      of God?

      (Mat 26:54 KJV) But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that
      thus it must be?

      (Mat 26:56 KJV) But all this was done, that the scriptures of the
      prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

      (Luke 24:27 KJV) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he
      expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

      (Luke 24:32 KJV) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn
      within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to
      us the scriptures?

      (Luke 24:45 KJV) Then opened he their understanding, that they might
      understand the scriptures,

      (John 5:39 KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have
      eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

      (Acts 17:11 KJV) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
      that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched
      the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

      (Acts 18:28 KJV) For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that
      publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

      (Rom 1:2 KJV) (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the
      holy scriptures,)

      (Rom 15:4 KJV) For whatsoever things were written aforetime were
      written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the
      scriptures might have hope.

      (Rom 16:26 KJV) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of
      the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God,
      made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

      (1 Cor 15:3 KJV) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I
      also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the

      (1 Cor 15:4 KJV) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the
      third day according to the scriptures:

      (2 Tim 3:15 KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy
      scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through
      faith which is in Christ Jesus.

      Let us see what Bible talks of Gospels (Only Chrisians were
      commissioned to teach Gospel, Muslims and Mohammad were disqualified):

      (Mat 4:23 KJV) And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their
      synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all
      manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

      (Mat 9:35 KJV) And Jesus went about all the cities and villages,
      teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,
      and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

      (Mat 11:5 KJV) The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the
      lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and
      the poor have the gospel preached to them.

      (Mat 24:14 KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in
      all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

      (Mat 26:13 KJV) Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall
      be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman
      hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

      (Mark 1:1 KJV) The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son
      of God;

      (Mark 1:14 KJV) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came
      into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

      (Mark 1:15 KJV) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of
      God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

      (Mark 13:10 KJV) And the gospel must first be published among all

      (Mark 14:9 KJV) Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall
      be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done
      shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

      (Mark 16:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and
      preach the gospel to every creature.

      (Luke 4:18 KJV) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath
      anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal
      the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and
      recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

      (Luke 7:22 KJV) Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and
      tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see,
      the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are
      raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

      (Luke 9:6 KJV) And they departed, and went through the towns,
      preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

      (Luke 20:1 KJV) And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he
      taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief
      priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

      (Acts 8:25 KJV) And they, when they had testified and preached the
      word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in
      many villages of the Samaritans.

      (Acts 14:7 KJV) And there they preached the gospel.

      (Acts 14:21 KJV) And when they had preached the gospel to that city,
      and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium,
      and Antioch,

      (Acts 15:7 KJV) And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose
      up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good
      while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth
      should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

      (Acts 16:10 KJV) And after he had seen the vision, immediately we
      endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord
      had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

      (Acts 20:24 KJV) But none of these things move me, neither count I my
      life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and
      the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the
      gospel of the grace of God.

      (Rom 1:1 KJV) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an
      apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

      (Rom 1:9 KJV) For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in
      the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you
      always in my prayers;

      (Rom 1:15 KJV) So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the
      gospel to you that are at Rome also.

      (Rom 1:16 KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it
      is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the
      Jew first, and also to the Greek.

      (Rom 2:16 KJV) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by
      Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

      (Rom 10:15 KJV) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it
      is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel
      of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

      (Rom 10:16 KJV) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias
      saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

      (Rom 11:28 KJV) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your
      sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers'

      (Rom 15:16 KJV) That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the
      Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the
      Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

      (Rom 15:19 KJV) Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the
      Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum,
      I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

      (Rom 15:20 KJV) Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not
      where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

      (Rom 15:29 KJV) And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall
      come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

      (Rom 16:25 KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according
      to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the
      revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

      (1 Cor 1:17 KJV) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the
      gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be
      made of none effect.

      (1 Cor 4:15 KJV) For though ye have ten thousand instructors in
      Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have
      begotten you through the gospel.

      (1 Cor 9:12 KJV) If others be partakers of this power over you, are
      not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer
      all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

      (1 Cor 9:14 KJV) Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which
      preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

      (1 Cor 9:16 KJV) For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to
      glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I
      preach not the gospel!

      (1 Cor 9:17 KJV) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
      but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

      (1 Cor 9:18 KJV) What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach
      the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I
      abuse not my power in the gospel.

      (1 Cor 15:1 KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
      which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye

      (2 Cor 2:12 KJV) Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's
      gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,

      (2 Cor 4:3 KJV) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are

      (2 Cor 4:4 KJV) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds
      of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of
      Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

      (2 Cor 8:18 KJV) And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise
      is in the gospel throughout all the churches;

      (2 Cor 9:13 KJV) Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they
      glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ,
      and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

      (2 Cor 10:14 KJV) For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as
      though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also
      in preaching the gospel of Christ:

      (2 Cor 10:16 KJV) To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and
      not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.

      (2 Cor 11:4 KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom
      we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have
      not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might
      well bear with him.

      (2 Cor 11:7 KJV) Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that
      ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God

      (Gal 1:6 KJV) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that
      called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

      (Gal 1:7 KJV) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble
      you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

      (Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
      other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let
      him be accursed.

      (Gal 1:9 KJV) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man
      preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him
      be accursed.

      (Gal 1:11 KJV) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was
      preached of me is not after man.

      (Gal 2:2 KJV) And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them
      that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them
      which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run,
      in vain.

      (Gal 2:5 KJV) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an
      hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

      (Gal 2:7 KJV) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the
      uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the
      circumcision was unto Peter;

      (Gal 2:14 KJV) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly
      according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them
      all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and
      not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the

      (Gal 3:8 KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify
      the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,
      saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

      (Gal 4:13 KJV) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached
      the gospel unto you at the first.

      (Eph 1:13 KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word
      of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye
      believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

      (Eph 3:6 KJV) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the
      same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

      (Eph 6:15 KJV) And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel
      of peace;

      (Eph 6:19 KJV) And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that
      I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

      (Phil 1:5 KJV) For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day
      until now;

      (Phil 1:7 KJV) Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all,
      because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in
      the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my

      (Phil 1:12 KJV) But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the
      things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the
      furtherance of the gospel;

      (Phil 1:17 KJV) But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the
      defence of the gospel.

      (Phil 1:27 KJV) Only let your conversation be as it becometh the
      gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent,
      I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one
      mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

      (Phil 2:22 KJV) But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the
      father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

      (Phil 4:3 KJV) And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those
      women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and
      with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

      (Phil 4:15 KJV) Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning
      of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated
      with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

      (Col 1:5 KJV) For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven,
      whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

      (Col 1:23 KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and
      be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard,
      and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;
      whereof I Paul am made a minister;

      (1 Th 1:5 KJV) For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but
      also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye
      know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

      (1 Th 2:2 KJV) But even after that we had suffered before, and were
      shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God
      to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

      (1 Th 2:4 KJV) But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with
      the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which
      trieth our hearts.

      (1 Th 2:8 KJV) So being affectionately desirous of you, we were
      willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but
      also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

      (1 Th 2:9 KJV) For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for
      labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any
      of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

      (1 Th 3:2 KJV) And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God,
      and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and
      to comfort you concerning your faith:

      (2 Th 1:8 KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not
      God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

      (2 Th 2:14 KJV) Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the
      obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

      (1 Tim 1:11 KJV) According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God,
      which was committed to my trust.

      (2 Tim 1:8 KJV) Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our
      Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions
      of the gospel according to the power of God;

      (2 Tim 1:10 KJV) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our
      Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life
      and immortality to light through the gospel:

      (2 Tim 2:8 KJV) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was
      raised from the dead according to my gospel:

      (Phile 1:13 KJV) Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy
      stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:

      (Heb 4:2 KJV) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto
      them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with
      faith in them that heard it.

      (1 Pet 1:12 KJV) Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves,
      but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto
      you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost
      sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

      (1 Pet 1:25 KJV) But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this
      is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

      (1 Pet 4:6 KJV) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to
      them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the
      flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

      (1 Pet 4:17 KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the
      house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of
      them that obey not the gospel of God?

      (Rev 14:6 KJV) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
      having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the
      earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

      May God bless You

      > "Do you (O ye men of Faith) covet that they will believe in you when
      > [in fact] a party of them used to hear the Word of Allah, then they
      > would distort it knowingly after they had understood it? Behold! when
      > they meet the men of Faith they say: "We believe" but when they meet
      > each other in private they say: "Shall you tell them what Allah hath
      > revealed to you that they may engage you in argument about it before
      > your Lord?" Do ye not understand (their aim)? Know they not that
      > Allah knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are
      > among them illiterates who know not the Book but (see therein their
      > own) desires and they do nothing but follow conjecture. Then woe to
      > those who write the Scripture with their own hands and then
      > say: "This is from Allah", to traffic with it for a miserable price.
      > Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make
      > thereby" [Holy Qur'an 2:75].
      > The "Gospel" writers often mention that Jesus going about and
      > preaching the Gospel (the Injeel):
      > "And Jesus went...preaching the GOSPEL...and healing every disease
      > among the people." [Matthew 9:35]
      > "...but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the GOSPEL'S,
      > the same shall save it." [Mark 8:35]
      > "...preached the GOSPEL..." [Luke 20:1]
      > The "gospel" is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus
      > preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction
      > can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the
      > Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to
      > St. Luke and according to John, but there is not a single
      > Gospel "according" to (St.) Jesus himself! We sincerely believe that
      > everything Christ (May the peace and blessings of God be upon him)
      > preached was from God. That was the Injeel, the good news and the
      > guidance of God for the Children of Israel. In his life-time Jesus
      > never wrote a single word, nor did he instruct anyone to do so. What
      > passes off as the "GOSPELS" today are the works of anonymous hands!
      > The publishers (Collins) say in their notes on the bible, on page
      > 10: "This bible (RSV) is the product of THIRTY-TWO SCHOLARS, assisted
      > by an advisory committee presenting FIFTY co-operating
      > denominations."
      > Preface of RSV reads "...the King James Version has with good reason
      > been termed "THE NOBLEST MONUMENTS OF ENGLISH PROSE." its revisers in
      > 1881 expressed admiration for "ITS SIMPLICITY, ITS DIGNITY, ITS
      > THE FELICITIES OF ITS RHYTHM." It entered, as no other book has, into
      > the making of the personal character and the public institutions of
      > the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt."
      > Yet In the same breath they say: "yet the King James Version has
      > GRAVE DEFECTS. And, the these defects are so MANY AND SO SERIOUS as
      > to call for revision?"
      > The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "Awake!" Magazine, dated 8
      > September, 1957, carried this startling headlines - "50,000 ERRORS IN
      > THE BIBLE?". The article said that "most errors have been
      > eliminated." If MOST are eliminated, how many remain out of 50,000?
      > 5000? 500? 50? Even if 50 remain, do you attribute those errors to
      > God?
      > One of the most serious of those "grave defects" which the authors of
      > the RSV had tried to rectify concerned the Ascension of Christ. There
      > have been only two references in the Canonical Gospels of Matthew,
      > Mark, Luke and of John to the most stupendous event in Christianity -
      > OF JESUS BEING TAKEN UP INTO HEAVEN. These two references were
      > obtained in every Bible in every language, prior to 1952, when the
      > RSV first appeared. These were:
      > "So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was TAKEN UP
      > INTO HEAVEN, and sat down at the right hand of God." [Mark 16:19]
      > "While he blessed them, he parted from them, and was CARRIED UP INTO
      > HEAVEN." [Luke 24:51]
      > If you can lay your hands on a RSV 1952, you will be shocked that
      > Mark 16 ends at verse 8, and after am embarrassing expanse of blank
      > space the missing verses appears in "small print" as a footnote at
      > the bottom of the page. Also the last six words of Luke 24:51,
      > i.e. "AND WAS CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN" replaced by a tiny "a" to tell
      > you to see the footnote if you please, where you will find these
      > missing words. Every honest Christian has to admit that he does not
      > consider any footnote in any Bible as the word of God. Why should the
      > paid servants of Christianity consign the mightiest miracle of their
      > religion to a mere footnote?
      > Also John Chapter 8 begins with verse 12. Can you imagine any chapter
      > in any religious Book beginning with verse 12 as the first verse?
      > Verses 1 to 11 are expunged as a fabrication by the 32 Christian
      > Scholars of the highest eminence, backed by 50 co-operating
      > denominations in their "Most up-to-date version of the Bible" - the
      > RSV. The translators claimed that they had access to the "Most
      > Ancient Manuscripts" from which they learnt that the story about the
      > adulteress was a fabrication.
      > God or the Devil?
      > "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he
      > moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." [2
      > Samuel 24:1]
      > "And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number
      > Israel." [1 Chronicles 21:1]
      > What did the Lord decree, 3 years famine or 7 years famine?
      > "So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall SEVEN
      > YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three
      > months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?" [2 Samuel 24:13]
      > "So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose
      > thee Either THREE YEARS' FAMINE; or three months to be destroyed
      > before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh
      > thee" [1 Chronicles 21:11,12]
      > How old was Jehoiachin? 8 or 18?
      > "Jehoiachin was EIGHT YEARS old when he began to reign, and he
      > reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which
      > was evil in the sight of the LORD." [2 Chronicles 36:9]
      > "Jehoiachin was EIGHTEEN YEARS old when he began to reign, and he
      > reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was
      > Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem." [2 Kings 24:8]
      > 700 or 7 000? Horsemen or footmen?
      > "And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of SEVEN
      > smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there." [2 Samuel
      > 10:18]
      > "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians
      > SEVEN THOUSAND MEN which fought in chariots, and FORTY THOUSAND
      > FOOTMEN, and killed Shophach the captain of the host." [1 Chronicles
      > 19:18]
      > The difference 2 000 and 3 000 is only 50% exaggeration!
      > "And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought
      > like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained TWO
      > THOUSAND baths." [1 Kings 7:26]
      > "And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like
      > the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it
      > received and held THREE THOUSAND baths." [2 Chronicles 4:5]
      > The difference between 4 thousand and 40 thousand is only 36 000!
      > (The Jews did not use the "0" (zero) in the Old Testament)
      > "And Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses and chariots, and
      > twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and
      > with the king at Jerusalem." [2 Chronicles 9:25]
      > "And Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses for his chariots,
      > and twelve thousand horsemen." [1 Kings 4:26]
      > Plagiarism in the Book of God?
      > [Isaiah 37] and [2 Kings 19] are identical word for word. Yet they
      > have been attributed to two different authors, centuries apart, whom
      > the Christians claim have been inspired by God.
      > "All scripture IS given by inspiration of God, and IS profitable for
      > doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
      > righteousness." [2 Timothy 3:16 (AV by Scofield)]
      > The verse implies that if any scripture originates from God, it will
      > prove profitable for -
      > 1. DOCTRINE: teaching
      > 2. REPROOF: for convicting, rebuking, for showing people what is
      > wrong in their lives.
      > 3. CORRECTION: useful for correcting faults.
      > 4. INSTRUCTION UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS: for training and teaching us how
      > to live correctly.
      > Let us examine the "Holy Bible" with these objective tests.
      > The very first book of the bible - Genesis - provided us with many
      > beautiful examples. Open chapter 38 and read. We are given here the
      > history of Judah, the father of the Jewish race, from whom we derive
      > the name "Judea" and "Judaism." This patriarch of the Jews got
      > married and God granted him three sons, Er, Onan and Shelah. When the
      > first-born was big enough, Judah had him married to a lady called
      > LORD; AND THE LORD SLEW HIM." (Genesis 38:7). Under what heading,
      > from the above four principles of Timothy will you place this sad
      > news? The second - "REPROVE" is the answer. Er was wicked so God
      > killed him. A lesson for all, God will destroy us for our wickedness.
      > REPROOF!
      > Continuing with this Jewish history, according to their custom, if a
      > brother died and left no offspring, it was the duty of the other
      > brother to give "seed" to his sister-in-law so that the deceased's
      > name might be perpetuated. Judah, in honour of this custom, orders
      > his second son Onan to do his duty. But Jealousy enters his heart. It
      > will be HIS SEED but the name will be his brothers! So at the
      > Again, where does this slaying fit into Timothy's tests? "REPROOF!"
      > is the answer again.............>>>>To be completed...
      > A Woman's Revenge
      > Shelah grows up and is, perhaps, married to another woman. But Judah
      > had not fulfilled his obligation to Tamar. Deep in his heart he is
      > terrified. He has already lost two sons on account of this "witch", -
      > (Genesis 38:11). So Judah conveniently forgets his promise. The
      > aggrieved young lady resolves to take revenge on her father-in-law
      > for depriving her of her "seed" right.
      > Tamar learned that Judah is going to Timnath to sheer his sheep. She
      > plans to get even with him on the way. She forestalls him, and goes
      > and sits in an open place en route to Timnath. When Judah sees her,
      > he thinks she is a harlot because she has covered her face. He comes
      > to her and proposes - "ALLOW ME TO COME IN UNTO THEE; AND SHE SAID
      > promises that he would send her a goat kid from his flock. What
      > guarantee could she have that he would send it? What guarantee did
      > she require, Judah queried. "His ring, his bracelet and his staff" is
      > the ready answer. The old man hands her these possessions to her,
      > and "CAME IN UNTO HER, AND SHE CONCEIVED BY HIM." (Genesis 38:16-18).
      > Before we seek the heading from Timothy 3:16, under which to
      > categorize this filthy, dirty story from the "Book of God", I am
      > tempted to ask, as you would be tempted to ask: what is the moral (?)
      > lesson that our children will learn from Tamar's sweet revenge?
      > Three months later, as things were bound to turn out, news reached
      > Judah that his daughter-in-law, Tamar, had played the "harlot" and
      > AND LET HER BE BURNT." (Genesis 38:24). Judah had deliberately
      > spurned her a "witch" and now he sophistically wants to burn her. But
      > this wiley Jewess was one up on the old man. She sent the "ring",
      > the "bracelet", and the "staff", with a servant, beseeching her
      > father-in-law to find the culprit responsible for her pregnancy.
      > Judah was in a fix. He confessed that his daughter-in-law was
      > more "RIGHTEOUS" than himself, and "HE KNEW HER AGAIN NO MORE."
      > (verse 26). The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "New World Translation",
      > translate the last quotation as - "HE HAD NO FURTHER INTERCOURSE WITH
      > HER AFTER THAT."
      > I do not want to bore you with details, but the end verses of Genesis
      > 38 deal with a duel in Tamar's womb: about the twins struggling for
      > ascendancy. The Jews were very meticulous about recording
      > their "first-borns." The first-born got the lion's share of their
      > fathers patrimony. Who are the lucky winners in this pre-natal race?
      > Their are four in this unique contest. They are "PHAREZ and ZARAH of
      > TAMAR by JUDAH." How? You will see presently. But first, let us have
      > the moral. What is the moral in this episode? You remember Er and
      > Onan: how God destroys them for their several sins? And the lessons
      > we have learnt in each case was "REPROOF." Under what category of
      > Timothy will you place the incest of Judah, and his illegitimate
      > progeny? All these characters are honoured in the "Book of God" for
      > their bastardy. They become the great grandfathers and great
      > grandmothers of the "only begotten son of God."(?)
      > See Matthew 1:3. In every Version of the Bible, Christians have
      > varied the spelling of these characters' names from those obtained in
      > the Old Testament (Genesis Ch. 38) with those contained in the New
      > Testament (Matthew Ch. 1) to put the reader off the scent.
      > From "PHAREZ" in the "Old" to "PARES" in the "New", and ZARAH to ZARA
      > and TAMAR to THAMAR. But what about the moral? God blesses Judah for
      > his incestuous crime! So if you do "evil" (Er), God will slay you; if
      > you spill "seed" (Onan), God will kill you, but a daughter-in-law who
      > vengefully and guilefully collects her father-in-law's
      > (Judah's) "seed" is rewarded. Under what category will the Christians
      > place this "honour" in the "Book of God?" Where does it fit? Is
      > it.....Your?
      > 1. DOCTRINE?
      > 2. REPROOF?
      > 3. CORRECTION?
      > Ask him who comes and knocks at your door - that professional
      > preacher, that hot-gospeller, that Bible-thumper. Here, he deserves a
      > prize if he can grant an explanation for the correct answer. There is
      > non born who can justify this filth, this pornography under any of
      > the above headings. But a heading has to be given. It can only be
      > recorded under - "PORNOGRAPHY".
      > Read Genesis 19, verse 30 to the end. To continue: the "history" has
      > it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduce their drunken
      > father with the noble (?) motive of preserving their
      > father's "seed". "seed" figures very prominently in this "Holy Book":
      > forty seven times in the little booklet of Genesis alone! Out of this
      > another incestuous relationship come the "Ammonites" and
      > the "Moabites", for whom God of Israel was supposed to have had a
      > special compassion. Later on in the Bible we learn that the Jews are
      > ordered by the same compassionate God to slaughter the Philistines
      > mercilessly - men, women and children. Even trees and animals are not
      > to be spared, but the Amonites and the Moabites are not to
      > be "distressed" or "meddled" with because they are the seed of Lot!
      > (Deuteronomy 2:19)
      > No decent reader can read the seduction of Lot to his mother, sister
      > or daughter, not even to his fiancée if she is a chaste and moral
      > woman. Yet you will come across perverted people who will gorge this
      > filth. Tastes can be cultivated!
      > Read again Ezekiel 23: The "whoredoms" of the two sisters, Aholah and
      > Aholibah. The sexual details here puts to shame even the unexpurgated
      > edition of many banned books. Ask your "born again" Christian
      > visitors, under what category will they classify all this lewdness?
      > Such filth certainly has no place in the "Book of God."
      > Every reference is from the Holy Bible:
      > 1. SEX BETWEEN FATHER AND HIS TWO DAUGHTERS: Night after night both
      > the daughters of the prophet Lot seduce their drunken father and
      > conceive children from him. [Genesis 19:30-36]
      > 2. SON COHABITS WITH HIS MOTHER: Reuben the eldest son of Jacob, in
      > the absence of his father, had sexual intercourse with his father's
      > wife and Israel (another name for Jacob) heard it. This episode was
      > reported to him, but he did not fume or spank his son for his naughty
      > behaviour. Nor did God have a single word of reproach for him.
      > [Genesis 35:22]
      > immediately and delivers bastard twins who become the grandfathers of
      > Jesus Christ. Thus God rewards Judah and his progeny. [Genesis 38:15-
      > 30]
      > worthy son of a worthy father" according to the "Holy" Bible, Amnon
      > by a masterful stratagem rapes his sister Tamer and God did not
      > punish or reprimand him. [2 Samuels 13:5-14]
      > HIS MOTHERS (10 IN A ROW) WHOLESALE: Absalom sets up a tent on the
      > flat palace roof and lays ten of his father's wives and rapes them
      > all one by one, in the "sight of the whole of Israel" [2 Samuel 16:21-
      > 23]
      > 6. JERUSALEM (THE JEWS) THE INSATIABLE WHORE: Neither the Assyrians,
      > the Babylonians nor the Egyptians ("great of flesh") could ever
      > satiate the Jewish whore. Other prostitutes were paid by their
      > clients for their service but this one paid them for being
      > serviced. "She spread out her legs to every passerby!" [Ezekiel 16:23-
      > 24]
      > she doted upon her parmours (her lovers) whose flesh (genital organs)
      > was as the flesh (genital organs) of donkeys and whose emission is
      > like the emission of horses." [Ezekiel 23:1-35]
      > If these little snippets do not satisfy you, then open these other
      > chapters and verses in your Bible at home. Do not forget to highlight
      > them in RED for easier reference. All these juicy snippets are
      > sexually stimulating, but morally and spiritually enervation, and
      > DAMNING!
      > (a) "She seizes him and kisses him... Come, let us take our fill of
      > love till the morning, let us delight ourselves with love, FOR MY
      > HUSBAND IS NOT AT HOME..." [Proverbs 7:7-22]
      > (b) Says the woman: "My king was lying on his couch... My lover has
      > the scent of myrrh AS HE LIES UPON MY BREASTS." [Song of Songs 1:12-
      > 13]
      > (c) "By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth...when I
      > found him...I HELD HIM AND WOULD NOT LET HIM GO, until I had brought
      > him into my mother's house to the room where I was born." [Songs of
      > Songs 3:1-4]
      > (d) "Behold, you are beautiful my love; Your LIPS are like a scarlet
      > thread...Your TWO BREASTS are like fawns...Your rounded THIGHS are
      > like jewels...I say: I will go up the palm tree...Oh, may YOUR
      > BREASTS be like clusters of vine." [Song of Songs 4:1-7]
      > (e) "And Samson went to Gaza, and there he saw a harlot (a whore, a
      > hooker, a prostitute) and he went in unto her (had sexual intercourse
      > with her)." [Judges 16:1]
      > BAN THE BOOK!
      > George Bernard Shaw said, "THE MOST DANGEROUS BOOK (the Bible) ON
      > EARTH, KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY." Keep the Bible out of your
      > children's reach. But who will follow his advice? He was not a B.A.
      > (born-again) Christian.
      > "Reading Bible stories to children can also open up all sorts of
      > opportunities to discuss the morality of sex. AN UNEXPURGATED BIBLE
      > MIGHT GET AN X-RATING FROM SOME CENSORS," (The Plain Truth October
      > 1977)
      > For a man who had no genealogy, the Christian fathers have
      > manufactured one for him. And what a genealogy! Six adulterers and
      > offsprings of incest are imposed upon this holy man of God. "The
      > BASTARD shall not enter congregation of the Lord even unto the tenth
      > generation." (Deut. 23:2 KJV). Why should God give a "father"
      > (Joseph) to His "son" (Jesus)? And why such an ignoble ancestry?
      > Between David and Jesus, God "inspired" Matthew to record only 26
      > ancestors for His "son". But Luke, also "inspired", gathered up 41
      > forefathers for Jesus (Matthew 1:6:16 and Luke 3:23-31). The only
      > name common to these lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH and that
      > too, a "supposed" father according to Luke 3:23 (KJV). Could both
      > lists have emanated from the same source, i.e. God? Matthew and Luke
      > make David, the King, the prime ancestor of Jesus, because of that
      > false notion that Jesus was to sit on the "Throne of his father
      > David" (Acts 2:30).
      > "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were
      > EYEWITNESSES, and ministers of the word; IT SEEMED GOOD TO ME ALSO,
      > having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,
      > to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus," [Luke 1:2-3]
      > "And as Jesus passed forth from thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named
      > Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto
      > HIM (Matthew), Follow me, And HE (Matthew) arose, and followed him."
      > [Matthew 9:9]
      > "This is the disciples which testifieth of these thongs, and wrote
      > these things, and WE know that that HIS testimony is true." [John
      > 21:24-25]
      > Was Luke inspired by God to say that Jesus was the son of Joseph?
      > "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (AS
      > WAS SUPPOSED) the son of Joseph..." [Luke 3:23]
      > The words "(as was supposed)" appearing in brackets are not in the
      > original Greek manuscript of Luke! These words are a gloss of the
      > translators.
      > In different vernacular languages of the world, like Arabic,
      > Afrikaans, Zulu, etc. the words "as was supposed" are retained in the
      > translations but the brackets are removed. Thus by removing the
      > brackets the words become the declaration of Luke, and if Luke was
      > inspired then the words are transmuted into an utterance of God. This
      > is how easy the word of man is transformed into the word of God in
      > Christianity.
    • brother_ok
      ... instruction ... Hi there, most of the NT were solely the words from paul the tarsus. none can be traced direct from God Almighty.
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 5, 2002
        --- In newquranandbible@y..., previouslaw <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > Hi, quranicverse99
        > Scripture is OT & NT combined. I believe in it. And in full.
        > 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
        > profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
        > in righteousness:
        > Gospel is "Good News", not NT or 4 Gospels. It is for mankind that
        > can be saved from OT to NT through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

        Hi there,

        most of the NT were solely the words from paul the tarsus. none can
        be traced direct from God Almighty.
      • Ron Tyler
        ... /// I reply Paul wrote:1 Cor 14: 36* ¶ Did the word of God go out from you, or did it come to you only? 37 If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 12, 2002
          --- In newquranandbible@y..., brother_ok <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Hi there,
          > most of the NT were solely the words from paul the tarsus. none can
          > be traced direct from God Almighty.

          /// I reply
          Paul wrote:1 Cor 14: 36* ¶ Did the word of God go out from you, or did
          it come to you only? 37 If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or
          spiritual, he should recognise the things that I write to you, that it
          is the Lord's commandment. 38 But if any be ignorant, he should be
          ~~~Paul's detractors say only some of the things Paul wrote were the
          Lord's commandments, revealing their ignorance.

          PETER WROTE: 2 pt 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, as ye wait for these
          things, be diligent to be found of him in peace, without spot and
          blameless; 15 and account the longsuffering of our Lord to be
          salvation; according as our beloved brother Paul also has written to
          you according to the wisdom given to him, 16* as also in all his
          epistles, speaking in them of these things; among which some things
          are hard to be understood, which the untaught and ill-established
          wrest, as also the OTHER scriptures, to their own destruction.
          ~~~Paul's detractors say Paul wrote out of his own wisdom and his
          epistles do not rank with Deuteronomy as Scripture,
          to their own destruction.

          Miraculously converted by Jesus personally, according to Luke: Acts 9
          ~~~No such coversion experience for Paul's detractors.

          Luke confirms that Messiah Jesus spoke to Paul twice: Acts 9 + 18+ 2
          Cor 12
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Presented to the Apostles by Barnabas and accepted as an Apostle by
          the other Apostles: Acts 9 & 15 & 21
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Luke testifies that the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of
          Paul's hands, with Pentecost signs following: Ac 19:6
          ~~~No such authority and experience for Paul's detractors.

          Commissioned by the Holy Spirit according to Luke: Acts 13:2
          ~~~No such endorsement for Paul's detractors.

          Used by Jesus to heal a man lame from birth, witnessed by Luke: Acts
          14 (8-16)
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Used by Jesus to raise one from the dead, witnessed by Luke: Acts
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Stoned and left for dead for preaching Messiah Jesus, witnessed by
          Luke: Acts 14
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Jesus did signs and wonders by Paul accepted by the Apostles and
          witnessed by Luke: Acts 15:22; 19:11
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Jesus used Paul to cast out a demon, witnessed by Luke: Acts 16
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          Survived the bite of a viper (Acts 23), as predicted in Mark 16
          ~~~No such experience for Paul's detractors.

          2 Cor 11:22 Paul writes: ¶ "Are they Hebrews? *I* also. Are they
          Israelites? *I* also. Are they seed of Abraham? *I* also."
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics:
          ~Hebrews? Some allegedly. No paper trail to prove it.
          ~Israelites? Some allegedly.
          ~Descendants of Abraham? Some allegedly. No paper trail to prove it.

          2 Cor 11:23 Paul: 23 "Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as being
          beside myself) *I* above measure so; in labours exceedingly abundant,
          in stripes to excess, in prisons exceedingly abundant, in deaths oft."
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics:
          ~Ministers of Christ? They say so but they reject the authority of His
          apostles, and many don't accept Jesus as Jehovah in a human body.
          ~Whipped excessively? Apparently none.
          ~Imprisoned for their faith in Messiah Jesus? Apparently none.
          ~Under a death sentence? Apparently none.

          2Cor 11:24 Paul: "From the Jews five times have I received forty
          stripes, save one. 25 Thrice have I been scourged, once I have been
          stoned, three times I have suffered shipwreck, a night and day I
          passed in the deep:"
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics:
          ~Whipped 200 times? Apparently none.
          ~Scourged three times? Apparently none.
          ~Stoned? Apparently none

          2Cor 11:26 in journeyings often, in perils of rivers, in perils of
          robbers, in perils from my own race, in perils from the nations, in
          perils in the city, in perils in the desert, in perils on the sea, in
          perils among false brethren;
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics have not experienced
          these perils like Paul .

          2Cor12: 2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the
          body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows;) such a one
          caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man, (whether in
          the body or out of the body I know not, God knows;) 4 that he was
          caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable things said which it is
          not allowed to man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast, but of
          myself I will not boast, unless in my weaknesses.
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics apparently have no such

          2Cor12: 7 And that I might not be exalted by the exceeding greatness
          of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn for the flesh, a
          messenger of Satan that he might buffet me, that I might not be
          exalted. 8 For this I thrice besought the Lord that it might depart
          from me. 9 And he said to me, My grace suffices thee; for my power is
          perfected in weakness.
          ~~~In contrast, Paul's detractors and critics have not had such an
          experience with Messiah Jesus.

          Paul's detractors and critics say that he didn't observe the Sinai Law
          as Jehovah-Jesus commanded.
          +++Paul had Timothy circumcised Acts 16
          +++Paul observed the Sabbath and attended Synagogue services: Acts 17
          +++Paul shaved his head, had vows and observed purifications: Ac 18:18
          & 21:26
          +++Paul walked "orderly, keeping the Law" according to Luke and the
          apostles: Acts 21:24
          +++Paul claimed to be a practicing Pharisee Acts 23

          Paul, therefore, is an authority established by God, and those who
          oppose and detract from Paul,
          are found to resist the ordinance of God, bringing the sentence of
          guilt on themselves, bringing
          themselves under
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