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Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?

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  • RAY TOSTADO
    Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES. And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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      Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.

      And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.



      rt













      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
      To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
      Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



      One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
      valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
      vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
      that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
      mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
      the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
      turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
      backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.

      ________________________________
      From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
      To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
      Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



      Hi,
      I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
      wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
      pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
      hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
      Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
      non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
      pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
      pump when the weather gets warm (July).
      regards, peter

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • RAY TOSTADO
      I always enjoy being comfortable: warm, at night on a boat. Sure blankets and a good bag are enough. But I decided things could be better. A quick read on
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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        I always enjoy being comfortable: warm, at night on a boat. Sure blankets and a good bag are enough. But I decided things could be better.

        A quick read on thermodynamics and the answer is evident. Keep the heat down low. Sort of a circulation thing. Instead of letting the warm air cling to the overhead and dissipate through the cabin ceiling.

        Using a small draw 12 vdc computer fan and attaching it to a section of common flexi home heater exhaust fan ducting was all it took. I used a small fully charged motorcycle battery with about a 45 amp hour life. It'll last all night. The flexi duct can be set up with a hanger system and routed to anywhere on the boat.

        It makes a difference. I used this on my Alden yawl. A wood boat with bilge water always present and dampness in the air.

        rt






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • michael s durfey
        Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat. I know, it happened to me. I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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          Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat. I know, it happened to me.
          I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more reliable.

          What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?

          Michael
          N30III
          San Diego





          On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:

          > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
          >
          > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.
          >
          > rt
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
          > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
          > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
          >
          > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
          > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
          > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
          > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
          > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
          > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
          > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
          > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
          > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
          > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
          >
          > Hi,
          > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
          > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
          > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
          > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
          > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
          > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
          > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
          > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
          > regards, peter
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jay Byrne
          Our manual pump vents at the stern.  We installed a vented loop.  Have had no problems. Jay Byrne Margaret B MKIII 30 ________________________________ From:
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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            Our manual pump vents at the stern.  We installed a vented loop.  Have had no problems.

            Jay Byrne
            Margaret B MKIII 30



            ________________________________
            From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
            To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
            Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:33 PM
            Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



            Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat.  I know, it happened to me.
            I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more reliable.

            What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?

            Michael
            N30III
            San Diego





            On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:

            > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
            >
            > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.
            >
            > rt
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
            > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
            > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
            >
            > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
            > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
            > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
            > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
            > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
            > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
            > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
            > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
            > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
            > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
            >
            > Hi,
            > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
            > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
            > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
            > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
            > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
            > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
            > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
            > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
            > regards, peter
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • RAY TOSTADO
            Use them both. But check your manual Gusher as I suggest. Hydraulic force is the strongest physics on earth. rt ... From: Jay Byrne
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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              Use them both.

              But check your manual Gusher as I suggest.

              Hydraulic force is the strongest physics on earth.


              rt





              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Jay Byrne<mailto:jaykbyrne@...>
              To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 14:39
              Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



              Our manual pump vents at the stern. We installed a vented loop. Have had no problems.

              Jay Byrne
              Margaret B MKIII 30

              ________________________________
              From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...<mailto:durfey.michael@...>>
              To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...<mailto:durfey.michael@...>>
              Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?


              Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat. I know, it happened to me.
              I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more reliable.

              What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?

              Michael
              N30III
              San Diego

              On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:

              > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
              >
              > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.
              >
              > rt
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...<mailto:rlwmail%40sbcglobal.net>>
              > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
              > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
              >
              > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
              > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
              > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
              > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
              > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
              > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
              > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
              > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com><mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
              > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
              > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
              >
              > Hi,
              > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
              > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
              > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
              > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
              > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
              > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
              > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
              > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
              > regards, peter
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Harley Nygren
              My manual bilge pump is installed above the level of the cockpit seats. That s about as much loop as you can get. I seldom use it, but it has few moving parts,
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                My manual bilge pump is installed above the level of the cockpit seats. That's about as much loop as you can get. I seldom use it, but it has few moving parts, doesn't use precious energy, has variable ( muscle) output, and is really quiet. What more can you ask for? BTW my recovery proceeding well, and we are looking forward to a healthy happy summer.
                Regards,
                Harley
                On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:33 PM, michael s durfey wrote:

                >
                >
                > Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat. I know, it happened to me.
                > I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more reliable.
                >
                > What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?
                >
                > Michael
                > N30III
                > San Diego
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:
                >
                >> Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                >>
                >> And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.
                >>
                >> rt
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
                >> To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                >> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                >> Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                >>
                >> One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
                >> valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
                >> vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
                >> that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
                >> mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
                >> the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
                >> turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
                >> backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                >>
                >> ________________________________
                >> From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
                >> To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                >> Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                >> Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                >>
                >> Hi,
                >> I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
                >> wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
                >> pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
                >> hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                >> Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
                >> non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
                >> pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
                >> pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                >> regards, peter
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • michael s durfey
                Harley, Good to hear you are feeling better. Fair wind, following sea, and no pain. Michael San Diego ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Harley,

                  Good to hear you are feeling better.
                  Fair wind, following sea, and no pain.

                  Michael
                  San Diego


                  On Mar 1, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Harley Nygren wrote:

                  > My manual bilge pump is installed above the level of the cockpit seats. That's about as much loop as you can get. I seldom use it, but it has few moving parts, doesn't use precious energy, has variable ( muscle) output, and is really quiet. What more can you ask for? BTW my recovery proceeding well, and we are looking forward to a healthy happy summer.
                  > Regards,
                  > Harley
                  > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:33 PM, michael s durfey wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat. I know, it happened to me.
                  > > I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more reliable.
                  > >
                  > > What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?
                  > >
                  > > Michael
                  > > N30III
                  > > San Diego
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                  > >>
                  > >> And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are evident.
                  > >>
                  > >> rt
                  > >>
                  > >> ----- Original Message -----
                  > >> From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
                  > >> To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                  > >> Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                  > >>
                  > >> One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
                  > >> valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
                  > >> vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
                  > >> that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
                  > >> mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
                  > >> the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when it
                  > >> turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
                  > >> backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                  > >>
                  > >> ________________________________
                  > >> From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
                  > >> To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > >> Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                  > >> Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                  > >>
                  > >> Hi,
                  > >> I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
                  > >> wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
                  > >> pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running a
                  > >> hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                  > >> Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
                  > >> non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
                  > >> pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
                  > >> pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                  > >> regards, peter
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Russ Wampler
                  On the issue of siphoning and check valves, they should not be relied on for any thru-hull that will be continuously submerged.  The point I was trying to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On the issue of siphoning and check valves, they should not be relied on for any
                    thru-hull that will be continuously submerged.  The point I was trying to make
                    about using a check valve was mainly to prevent backflow within the line, not to
                    prevent water from entering due to a submerged thru-hull fitting. In terms of
                    vented loops, they are good at preventing a siphon; but remember that if the
                    vented loop ever goes below the waterline (when the boat is at a deep heel) it
                    does not matter if the line vents, water will fill the loop and go into the boat
                    without restriction.  This is where a properly operating check valve will help
                    prevent flow into the boat.  I use a check valve on my bilge pump because the
                    line run to the stern exit is so long that 2 gallons or so will flow back into
                    the bilge if there was no check in the line.  The above waterline exit at the
                    stern prevents water from entering; the check valve is secondary to that.



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                    To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                    Sent: Thu, March 1, 2012 2:33:44 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



                    Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into the boat.  I
                    know, it happened to me.
                    I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it is more
                    reliable.


                    What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve vs loop?

                    Michael
                    N30III
                    San Diego





                    On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:

                    > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                    >
                    > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon if the flapper
                    >valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when signs of aging are
                    >evident.
                    >
                    > rt
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
                    > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                    > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                    >
                    > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge line and check
                    > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the mechanical unit or
                    > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are redundant so
                    > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you can also use the
                    > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high point on the side of
                    >
                    > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it on the dock when
                    >it
                    >
                    > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so water cant
                    > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Peter Ford <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>
                    > To:
                    newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                    > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976 Newport 28. I am
                    > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I have a rule 500
                    > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems to impede running
                    >a
                    >
                    > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                    > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote switch? I have a
                    > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses with an electric
                    > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then replace the mechanical
                    >
                    > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                    > regards, peter
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • JOHN KLOPPENBURG
                    Good morning Russ, I replaced the cutlass bearing on Ali Oop and had no issue with high friction between the shaft and the cutlass bearing before or after the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 2, 2012
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                      Good morning Russ, I replaced the cutlass bearing on Ali Oop and had no issue with high friction between the shaft and the cutlass bearing before or after the replacement. I believe there may have been an alignment problem in your case before you installed the new bearing. Also don't forget you are working with the stuffing box which if it is cranked down fairly tight will cause friction on the shaft. I clean bottoms of boats and replace zincs to support my boat habit and have had many boat where turning the prop shafts was difficult. Usually on big power boat with twin diesels. Ray mentioned the engine but since the prop shaft is most likely removed for installing a new cutlass bearing the issue with damaging the engine is not a concern. Also it is a good idea to check the engine line up with the prop shaft (this should be done in the water) and don't forget that the boat will not be in the same shape as when it sits in the water. On Ali Oop the shaft was tight on the hard but when I had her back in the water it was easy to turn. Don't over tighten the stuffing box. Let is leak a bit which will save fuel and it will last much longer. I cane spin the shaft on my boat and it will make a couple of revolutions before it stopped. John

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Russ Wampler <rlwmail@...>
                      Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:41 pm
                      Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                      To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com

                      > On the issue of siphoning and check valves, they should not be
                      > relied on for any
                      > thru-hull that will be continuously submerged. The point I was
                      > trying to make
                      > about using a check valve was mainly to prevent backflow within
                      > the line, not to
                      > prevent water from entering due to a submerged thru-hull
                      > fitting. In terms of
                      > vented loops, they are good at preventing a siphon; but remember
                      > that if the
                      > vented loop ever goes below the waterline (when the boat is at a
                      > deep heel) it
                      > does not matter if the line vents, water will fill the loop and
                      > go into the boat
                      > without restriction. This is where a properly operating check
                      > valve will help
                      > prevent flow into the boat. I use a check valve on my bilge
                      > pump because the
                      > line run to the stern exit is so long that 2 gallons or so will
                      > flow back into
                      > the bilge if there was no check in the line. The above
                      > waterline exit at the
                      > stern prevents water from entering; the check valve is secondary
                      > to that.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                      > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com
                      > Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                      > Sent: Thu, March 1, 2012 2:33:44 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                      > suggestions?
                      >
                      >
                      > Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into
                      > the boat. I
                      > know, it happened to me.
                      > I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it
                      > is more
                      > reliable.
                      >
                      >
                      > What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve
                      > vs loop?
                      >
                      > Michael
                      > N30III
                      > San Diego
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:
                      >
                      > > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                      > >
                      > > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon
                      > if the flapper
                      > >valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when
                      > signs of aging are
                      > >evident.
                      > >
                      > > rt
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
                      > > To:
                      > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                      > > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                      > suggestions?>
                      > > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge
                      > line and check
                      > > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the
                      > mechanical unit or
                      > > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are
                      > redundant so
                      > > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you
                      > can also use the
                      > > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high
                      > point on the side of
                      > >
                      > > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it
                      > on the dock when
                      > >it
                      > >
                      > > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so
                      > water cant
                      > > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: Peter Ford
                      > <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>>
                      > To:
                      > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                      > > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                      > >
                      > > Hi,
                      > > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976
                      > Newport 28. I am
                      > > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I
                      > have a rule 500
                      > > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems
                      > to impede running
                      > >a
                      > >
                      > > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                      > > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote
                      > switch? I have a
                      > > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses
                      > with an electric
                      > > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then
                      > replace the mechanical
                      > >
                      > > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                      > > regards, peter
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • RAY TOSTADO
                      What was I thinking? Gotta get more coffee before I do replies. rt ... From: JOHN KLOPPENBURG To:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 2, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What was I thinking?

                        Gotta get more coffee before I do replies.


                        rt












                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: JOHN KLOPPENBURG<mailto:guzzijohn@...>
                        To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 08:39
                        Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?



                        Good morning Russ, I replaced the cutlass bearing on Ali Oop and had no issue with high friction between the shaft and the cutlass bearing before or after the replacement. I believe there may have been an alignment problem in your case before you installed the new bearing. Also don't forget you are working with the stuffing box which if it is cranked down fairly tight will cause friction on the shaft. I clean bottoms of boats and replace zincs to support my boat habit and have had many boat where turning the prop shafts was difficult. Usually on big power boat with twin diesels. Ray mentioned the engine but since the prop shaft is most likely removed for installing a new cutlass bearing the issue with damaging the engine is not a concern. Also it is a good idea to check the engine line up with the prop shaft (this should be done in the water) and don't forget that the boat will not be in the same shape as when it sits in the water. On Ali Oop the shaft was tight on the hard but when I had her back in the water it was easy to turn. Don't over tighten the stuffing box. Let is leak a bit which will save fuel and it will last much longer. I cane spin the shaft on my boat and it will make a couple of revolutions before it stopped. John

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Russ Wampler <rlwmail@...<mailto:rlwmail%40sbcglobal.net>>
                        Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:41 pm
                        Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                        To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>

                        > On the issue of siphoning and check valves, they should not be
                        > relied on for any
                        > thru-hull that will be continuously submerged. The point I was
                        > trying to make
                        > about using a check valve was mainly to prevent backflow within
                        > the line, not to
                        > prevent water from entering due to a submerged thru-hull
                        > fitting. In terms of
                        > vented loops, they are good at preventing a siphon; but remember
                        > that if the
                        > vented loop ever goes below the waterline (when the boat is at a
                        > deep heel) it
                        > does not matter if the line vents, water will fill the loop and
                        > go into the boat
                        > without restriction. This is where a properly operating check
                        > valve will help
                        > prevent flow into the boat. I use a check valve on my bilge
                        > pump because the
                        > line run to the stern exit is so long that 2 gallons or so will
                        > flow back into
                        > the bilge if there was no check in the line. The above
                        > waterline exit at the
                        > stern prevents water from entering; the check valve is secondary
                        > to that.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...<mailto:durfey.michael%40gmail.com>>
                        > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...<mailto:durfey.michael%40gmail.com>>
                        > Sent: Thu, March 1, 2012 2:33:44 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                        > suggestions?
                        >
                        >
                        > Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into
                        > the boat. I
                        > know, it happened to me.
                        > I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it
                        > is more
                        > reliable.
                        >
                        >
                        > What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve
                        > vs loop?
                        >
                        > Michael
                        > N30III
                        > San Diego
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:
                        >
                        > > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                        > >
                        > > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon
                        > if the flapper
                        > >valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when
                        > signs of aging are
                        > >evident.
                        > >
                        > > rt
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...<mailto:rlwmail%40sbcglobal.net>>
                        > > To:
                        > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                        > > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                        > suggestions?>
                        > > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge
                        > line and check
                        > > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the
                        > mechanical unit or
                        > > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are
                        > redundant so
                        > > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you
                        > can also use the
                        > > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high
                        > point on the side of
                        > >
                        > > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it
                        > on the dock when
                        > >it
                        > >
                        > > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so
                        > water cant
                        > > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                        > >
                        > > ________________________________
                        > > From: Peter Ford
                        > <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com><mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>>
                        > To:
                        > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                        > > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                        > >
                        > > Hi,
                        > > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976
                        > Newport 28. I am
                        > > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I
                        > have a rule 500
                        > > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems
                        > to impede running
                        > >a
                        > >
                        > > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                        > > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote
                        > switch? I have a
                        > > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses
                        > with an electric
                        > > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then
                        > replace the mechanical
                        > >
                        > > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                        > > regards, peter
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Russ Wampler
                        I agree that it is hard to say for sure what the problem is until I work on checking alignment with the engine in the water.  I have made several changes to
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I agree that it is hard to say for sure what the problem is until I work on
                          checking alignment with the engine in the water.  I have made several changes to
                          the driveline and it could be that since the new shaft is not worn like the old
                          unit, and the cutlass is new, everything is tighter than it was before.  Old
                          shaft was also bent so it was tighter to rotate in one quadrant of the
                          revolution.  The new driveline has a dripless shaft seal and an R&D flexible
                          coupling.  The boat went back in the water this morning, and motoring back to
                          the slip there is a bit less vibration but still some present.  Need to check
                          the engine alignment now that the boat is back in the water; hopefully it is not
                          a strut alignment problem.  Good to know that the prop shaft should spin very
                          freely if everything is aligned properly.

                          Thanks for the replies Ray and John...


                          ________________________________
                          From: JOHN KLOPPENBURG <guzzijohn@...>
                          To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, March 2, 2012 8:39:26 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?

                           
                          Good morning Russ, I replaced the cutlass bearing on Ali Oop and had no issue
                          with high friction between the shaft and the cutlass bearing before or after the
                          replacement. I believe there may have been an alignment problem in your case
                          before you installed the new bearing. Also don't forget you are working with the
                          stuffing box which if it is cranked down fairly tight will cause friction on the
                          shaft. I clean bottoms of boats and replace zincs to support my boat habit and
                          have had many boat where turning the prop shafts was difficult. Usually on big
                          power boat with twin diesels. Ray mentioned the engine but since the prop shaft
                          is most likely removed for installing a new cutlass bearing the issue with
                          damaging the engine is not a concern. Also it is a good idea to check the engine
                          line up with the prop shaft (this should be done in the water) and don't forget
                          that the boat will not be in the same shape as when it sits in the water. On Ali
                          Oop the shaft was tight on the hard but when I had her back in the water it was
                          easy to turn. Don't over tighten the stuffing box. Let is leak a bit which will
                          save fuel and it will last much longer. I cane spin the shaft on my boat and it
                          will make a couple of revolutions before it stopped. John

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Russ Wampler <rlwmail@...>
                          Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:41 pm
                          Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                          To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com

                          > On the issue of siphoning and check valves, they should not be
                          > relied on for any
                          > thru-hull that will be continuously submerged. The point I was
                          > trying to make
                          > about using a check valve was mainly to prevent backflow within
                          > the line, not to
                          > prevent water from entering due to a submerged thru-hull
                          > fitting. In terms of
                          > vented loops, they are good at preventing a siphon; but remember
                          > that if the
                          > vented loop ever goes below the waterline (when the boat is at a
                          > deep heel) it
                          > does not matter if the line vents, water will fill the loop and
                          > go into the boat
                          > without restriction. This is where a properly operating check
                          > valve will help
                          > prevent flow into the boat. I use a check valve on my bilge
                          > pump because the
                          > line run to the stern exit is so long that 2 gallons or so will
                          > flow back into
                          > the bilge if there was no check in the line. The above
                          > waterline exit at the
                          > stern prevents water from entering; the check valve is secondary
                          > to that.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                          > To: newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: michael s durfey <durfey.michael@...>
                          > Sent: Thu, March 1, 2012 2:33:44 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                          > suggestions?
                          >
                          >
                          > Like Ray said, check valves can fail and water can siphon into
                          > the boat. I
                          > know, it happened to me.
                          > I installed a vented loop in my bulge pump hose, and I think it
                          > is more
                          > reliable.
                          >
                          >
                          > What is the feeling of the group about the reliability of valve
                          > vs loop?
                          >
                          > Michael
                          > N30III
                          > San Diego
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Mar 1, 2012, at 5:47 AM, RAY TOSTADO wrote:
                          >
                          > > Like Russ says, CHECK VALVES.
                          > >
                          > > And every manual pump has the vulnerability to become a siphon
                          > if the flapper
                          > >valves are not maintained free of debris and replaced when
                          > signs of aging are
                          > >evident.
                          > >
                          > > rt
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: Russ Wampler<mailto:rlwmail@...>
                          > > To:
                          > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 20:53
                          > > Subject: Re: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation -
                          > suggestions?>
                          > > One solution would be to put in a Y on your existing bilge
                          > line and check
                          > > valves on each branch so that water pumping from the
                          > mechanical unit or
                          > > vice-versa will not flow back into the bilge. Most systems are
                          > redundant so
                          > > that if the electric unit cant keep up (in an emergency) you
                          > can also use the
                          > > mechanical pump. Many electric systems just exit at a high
                          > point on the side of
                          > >
                          > > the hull; not at the stern (just dont be standing next to it
                          > on the dock when
                          > >it
                          > >
                          > > turns on). If you go that route you will want a check valve so
                          > water cant
                          > > backflow in if the boat dips the rail in.
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________
                          > > From: Peter Ford
                          > <petersford@...<mailto:petersford%40hotmail.com>>>
                          > To:
                          > newportsailboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newportsailboats%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Wed, February 29, 2012 4:35:42 PM
                          > > Subject: [Newport Sailboats] Bilge pump installation - suggestions?
                          > >
                          > > Hi,
                          > > I am planning on adding an electric bilge pump to a 1976
                          > Newport 28. I am
                          > > wondering about routing the hoses. As a temporary solution I
                          > have a rule 500
                          > > pumping out the portal. The boat has an Atomic-4 which seems
                          > to impede running
                          > >a
                          > >
                          > > hose from the aft end of the bilge to the stern of the boat.
                          > > Any clever ideas? Do I put in a fancier pump with a remote
                          > switch? I have a
                          > > non-working mechanical bilge, should I replumb those hoses
                          > with an electric
                          > > pump? I was hoping to get the electric pump in, and then
                          > replace the mechanical
                          > >
                          > > pump when the weather gets warm (July).
                          > > regards, peter
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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