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Re: [new_distillers] Re: Using Corn

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  • Ludwig Kirsch
    If I may throw in my two cents. As I understand it malted corn would not have enough enzyme to convert all of the starch present. You would need to add
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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      If I may throw in my two cents. As I understand it malted corn would not have enough enzyme to convert all of the starch present. You would need to add malted barley to get a good conversion. All corn has starch and produce about the same % alcohol per bushel. The seed companies are now beginning to breed high starch corn for the fuel alcohol plants. The % gain in alcohol is like 3% more than regular corn. They are new and as yet not available

      Try malting your own barley. All you need is a refrigerator top, oven and a few cooky sheets. Use the malt green and you don't even need the oven. It is fairly easy and I have found a lot cheaper than buying pre-malted. I prefer the taste and I think the enzyme % is stronger. Selection is limited by location. I get mine from local farmers. Farmer will sell for pennies per pound or like $1.50 (US) a bushel. That's 3 cents a pound for 48 lbs or 22 Kg per bushel for barley. And think they have a heck of a good deal

      I malted some corn once and made beer. I deeply regret not writing down the recipe because it was some of the best beer I ever made.

      Ludwig
      --

      --------- Original Message ---------

      DATE: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:08:54
      From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Cc:

      >You might first try a batch using malted barley from your local
      >homebrew store. This has all the enzymes you'll need to convert the
      >starch in your corn to sugar. 6-row barley has more enzymes (someone
      >correct me if I'm wrong here. I never can clearly remember if it's
      >2-row or 6-row). The malted barley will make up something like 15 to
      >20% of your grains. I've never tried malting my own corn. Sounds
      >like a lot of trouble.
      >I think ALL types of corn contain starch, and therefore can be used to
      >make alcohol. I think the reason for picking non-hybrid type is for
      >better flavor. Some of the hybrids may actually have better alcohol
      >yield (more of the weight is in starch rather than husk or whatever
      >else). I use an old breed called "yellow dent". It has a good flavor
      >when eaten as corn-on-the-cob. It also makes very good meal and
      >cornbread.
      >
      >If you malt your own corn, you probably won't be able to have it
      >milled. It will be too wet and will bog the mill. The best bet here
      >is to use one of those hand powered sausage grinders that clamps onto
      >your countertop. I've used one to crack dry corn. It should work
      >even better on the softer wet corn.
      >
      >
      >--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
      ><headcavedin@y...> wrote:
      >> Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about letting
      >> it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes comes
      >> from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
      >for.
      >> Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
      >Thanks
      >>
      >> Frank
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
      >FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >



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    • corn_wash
      all the info. i have found states corn has 60-70% convertable starch whitch is equal to about 6-7 pounds of sugar that is convertable to alc. amylase will get
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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        all the info. i have found states corn has 60-70% convertable starch
        whitch is equal to about 6-7 pounds
        of sugar that is convertable to alc. amylase will get all ths sugars
        out ....................


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ludwig Kirsch"
        <cannonfire54@l...> wrote:
        > If I may throw in my two cents. As I understand it malted corn
        would not have enough enzyme to convert all of the starch present.
        You would need to add malted barley to get a good conversion. All
        corn has starch and produce about the same % alcohol per bushel. The
        seed companies are now beginning to breed high starch corn for the
        fuel alcohol plants. The % gain in alcohol is like 3% more than
        regular corn. They are new and as yet not available
        >
        > Try malting your own barley. All you need is a refrigerator top,
        oven and a few cooky sheets. Use the malt green and you don't even
        need the oven. It is fairly easy and I have found a lot cheaper than
        buying pre-malted. I prefer the taste and I think the enzyme % is
        stronger. Selection is limited by location. I get mine from local
        farmers. Farmer will sell for pennies per pound or like $1.50 (US) a
        bushel. That's 3 cents a pound for 48 lbs or 22 Kg per bushel for
        barley. And think they have a heck of a good deal
        >
        > I malted some corn once and made beer. I deeply regret not writing
        down the recipe because it was some of the best beer I ever made.
        >
        > Ludwig
        > --
        >
        > --------- Original Message ---------
        >
        > DATE: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:08:54
        > From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...>
        > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Cc:
        >
        > >You might first try a batch using malted barley from your local
        > >homebrew store. This has all the enzymes you'll need to convert
        the
        > >starch in your corn to sugar. 6-row barley has more enzymes
        (someone
        > >correct me if I'm wrong here. I never can clearly remember if it's
        > >2-row or 6-row). The malted barley will make up something like 15
        to
        > >20% of your grains. I've never tried malting my own corn. Sounds
        > >like a lot of trouble.
        > >I think ALL types of corn contain starch, and therefore can be
        used to
        > >make alcohol. I think the reason for picking non-hybrid type is
        for
        > >better flavor. Some of the hybrids may actually have better
        alcohol
        > >yield (more of the weight is in starch rather than husk or whatever
        > >else). I use an old breed called "yellow dent". It has a good
        flavor
        > >when eaten as corn-on-the-cob. It also makes very good meal and
        > >cornbread.
        > >
        > >If you malt your own corn, you probably won't be able to have it
        > >milled. It will be too wet and will bog the mill. The best bet
        here
        > >is to use one of those hand powered sausage grinders that clamps
        onto
        > >your countertop. I've used one to crack dry corn. It should work
        > >even better on the softer wet corn.
        > >
        > >
        > >--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
        > ><headcavedin@y...> wrote:
        > >> Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about
        letting
        > >> it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes
        comes
        > >> from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
        > >for.
        > >> Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
        > >Thanks
        > >>
        > >> Frank
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > >FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > ____________________________________________________________
        > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos
        Mail!
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      • corn_wash
        that is 6-7 lbs sugar per 10 lbs. corn ... starch ... sugars ... The ... than ... a ... writing ... it s ... 15 ... Sounds ... whatever ... work
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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          that is 6-7 lbs sugar per 10 lbs. corn

          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "corn_wash" <corn_wash@y...>
          wrote:
          > all the info. i have found states corn has 60-70% convertable
          starch
          > whitch is equal to about 6-7 pounds
          > of sugar that is convertable to alc. amylase will get all ths
          sugars
          > out ....................
          >
          >
          > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ludwig Kirsch"
          > <cannonfire54@l...> wrote:
          > > If I may throw in my two cents. As I understand it malted corn
          > would not have enough enzyme to convert all of the starch present.
          > You would need to add malted barley to get a good conversion. All
          > corn has starch and produce about the same % alcohol per bushel.
          The
          > seed companies are now beginning to breed high starch corn for the
          > fuel alcohol plants. The % gain in alcohol is like 3% more than
          > regular corn. They are new and as yet not available
          > >
          > > Try malting your own barley. All you need is a refrigerator top,
          > oven and a few cooky sheets. Use the malt green and you don't even
          > need the oven. It is fairly easy and I have found a lot cheaper
          than
          > buying pre-malted. I prefer the taste and I think the enzyme % is
          > stronger. Selection is limited by location. I get mine from local
          > farmers. Farmer will sell for pennies per pound or like $1.50 (US)
          a
          > bushel. That's 3 cents a pound for 48 lbs or 22 Kg per bushel for
          > barley. And think they have a heck of a good deal
          > >
          > > I malted some corn once and made beer. I deeply regret not
          writing
          > down the recipe because it was some of the best beer I ever made.
          > >
          > > Ludwig
          > > --
          > >
          > > --------- Original Message ---------
          > >
          > > DATE: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:08:54
          > > From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...>
          > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > > Cc:
          > >
          > > >You might first try a batch using malted barley from your local
          > > >homebrew store. This has all the enzymes you'll need to convert
          > the
          > > >starch in your corn to sugar. 6-row barley has more enzymes
          > (someone
          > > >correct me if I'm wrong here. I never can clearly remember if
          it's
          > > >2-row or 6-row). The malted barley will make up something like
          15
          > to
          > > >20% of your grains. I've never tried malting my own corn.
          Sounds
          > > >like a lot of trouble.
          > > >I think ALL types of corn contain starch, and therefore can be
          > used to
          > > >make alcohol. I think the reason for picking non-hybrid type is
          > for
          > > >better flavor. Some of the hybrids may actually have better
          > alcohol
          > > >yield (more of the weight is in starch rather than husk or
          whatever
          > > >else). I use an old breed called "yellow dent". It has a good
          > flavor
          > > >when eaten as corn-on-the-cob. It also makes very good meal and
          > > >cornbread.
          > > >
          > > >If you malt your own corn, you probably won't be able to have it
          > > >milled. It will be too wet and will bog the mill. The best bet
          > here
          > > >is to use one of those hand powered sausage grinders that clamps
          > onto
          > > >your countertop. I've used one to crack dry corn. It should
          work
          > > >even better on the softer wet corn.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
          > > ><headcavedin@y...> wrote:
          > > >> Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about
          > letting
          > > >> it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes
          > comes
          > > >> from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
          > > >for.
          > > >> Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
          > > >Thanks
          > > >>
          > > >> Frank
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > >new_distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >New Distillers group archives are at http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > > >FAQ and other information available at http://homedistiller.org
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ____________________________________________________________
          > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos
          > Mail!
          > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005
        • headcavedin
          All this Good info. I surly do Appreciate to Guys. Excellant info. I don t mind the extra work if just for the sake of trying something diffrent, ya know?
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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            All this Good info. I surly do Appreciate to Guys. Excellant info. I
            don't mind the extra work if just for the sake of trying something
            diffrent, ya know? Thanks again

            Frank



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
            <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
            > Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about letting
            > it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes comes
            > from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
            for.
            > Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
            Thanks
            >
            > Frank
          • flaming_pinto
            I just finished a corn wash which turned out VERY nice, so let me add my two cents in here. I used cracked, unmalted feed corn and malted 6-row barley (from
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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              I just finished a corn wash which turned out VERY nice, so let me add
              my two cents in here.

              I used cracked, unmalted feed corn and malted 6-row barley (from the
              brew shop) in the follwing ratio:

              8 lbs corn
              3 lbs barley
              3 lbs corn-sugar (to boost alc. percentage)

              You have to boil the hell out of the corn to get the starch out - I
              boiled for an hour in two 20-quart pans. Then you bring the temp
              down to 150F and add the barley. Hold at 150-155F for an hour -
              (this is when the corn gets converted to sugars). Drain the liquid
              off the grains and make up to 5 or 6 gallons, depending on your
              fermentor. You can also brew on the grains and drain before
              distilling.

              I then reduced the temp to 85F, added the corn-sugar, 24oz of
              molasses for nutrients, and pitched a good quality grain yeast (Red
              Star brand "Distiller's" yeast). After 3 days of brisk fermentation,
              I distilled a gallon of excellent young whiskey @ 40%.

              Some of it we drank as-is, and some of it I put on oak. The stuff I
              put on oak rivals the best commercial whiskeys I have had.

              Hope this helps. I am in the process of brewing up some scotch using
              all matled barley (10 pounds 2-row, 5 pounds 6-row. I can't wait to
              see how this turns out after oaking.

              flaming_pinto


              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
              <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
              >
              > All this Good info. I surly do Appreciate to Guys. Excellant info.
              I
              > don't mind the extra work if just for the sake of trying something
              > diffrent, ya know? Thanks again
              >
              > Frank
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
              > <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
              > > Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about
              letting
              > > it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes
              comes
              > > from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
              > for.
              > > Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
              > Thanks
              > >
              > > Frank
            • nanosleep
              This is almost identical to my procedure except I don t add sugar and I ferment and distill on the grain. I ve had a few failed batches when I used only
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 2, 2003
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                This is almost identical to my procedure except I don't add sugar and
                I ferment and distill on the grain.
                I've had a few failed batches when I used only amalyse powdered
                enzymes from the local homebrew store. I don't know whether the
                amalyse powder wasn't a proper mixture of the different types of
                enzymes, or if it was just dead. I don't think many people buy the
                powdered enzymes so who knows how long it has been sitting on the
                shelf. I have had good luck when using malted barley for the enzyme
                action.
                I usually cook my corn longer than 1 hour (at almost boiling). I've
                used both cracked corn and fine meal. The meal takes less cooking and
                has better yield, but you can't strain it and you must ferment and
                distill on the grain. My boiler has electric elements and I haven't
                (as of yet) had any problems scorching a corn wash. I use extra water
                to help prevent this.

                The only trouble I've had with scorching is with a pears. I ran some
                pears through the sausage grinder and then fermented and distilled. I
                think the wash was thick enough that it wasn't 'self stirring' when
                heated, and the pear flesh seemed to be acting as an insulator. A bad
                combination.



                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "flaming_pinto"
                <flaming_pinto@y...> wrote:
                > I just finished a corn wash which turned out VERY nice, so let me
                add
                > my two cents in here.
                >
                > I used cracked, unmalted feed corn and malted 6-row barley (from
                the
                > brew shop) in the follwing ratio:
                >
                > 8 lbs corn
                > 3 lbs barley
                > 3 lbs corn-sugar (to boost alc. percentage)
                >
                > You have to boil the hell out of the corn to get the starch out - I
                > boiled for an hour in two 20-quart pans. Then you bring the temp
                > down to 150F and add the barley. Hold at 150-155F for an hour -
                > (this is when the corn gets converted to sugars). Drain the liquid
                > off the grains and make up to 5 or 6 gallons, depending on your
                > fermentor. You can also brew on the grains and drain before
                > distilling.
                >
                > I then reduced the temp to 85F, added the corn-sugar, 24oz of
                > molasses for nutrients, and pitched a good quality grain yeast (Red
                > Star brand "Distiller's" yeast). After 3 days of brisk
                fermentation,
                > I distilled a gallon of excellent young whiskey @ 40%.
                >
                > Some of it we drank as-is, and some of it I put on oak. The stuff
                I
                > put on oak rivals the best commercial whiskeys I have had.
                >
                > Hope this helps. I am in the process of brewing up some scotch
                using
                > all matled barley (10 pounds 2-row, 5 pounds 6-row. I can't wait
                to
                > see how this turns out after oaking.
                >
                > flaming_pinto
                >
                >
                > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
                > <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > All this Good info. I surly do Appreciate to Guys. Excellant
                info.
                > I
                > > don't mind the extra work if just for the sake of trying
                something
                > > diffrent, ya know? Thanks again
                > >
                > > Frank
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
                > > <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
                > > > Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about
                > letting
                > > > it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes
                > comes
                > > > from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to look
                > > for.
                > > > Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-Hybird?
                > > Thanks
                > > >
                > > > Frank
              • flaming_pinto
                Thanks to Wal s recent post on the subject, I discovered why my mashing process sometimes results in lower-than-expected yeilds for me. Even though the starch
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 3, 2003
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                  Thanks to Wal's recent post on the subject, I discovered why my
                  mashing process sometimes results in lower-than-expected yeilds for
                  me.

                  Even though the starch conversion happens for the most part around
                  150-155F, the mash needs to be held at(or at least pass-through) the
                  95-105F range in order to really break down the gummy structures of
                  the starch so that the enzymes can crack them. For my last batch, I
                  didn't add the grains until 140F and the result was a ppg yeild of
                  only .022 instead of the expected .031 that I got with the previous
                  batch (which I added the grains at around 60F and heated slowly).

                  So to maximize your grain yeilds, always add the grains to cool water
                  and let them warm to 150F slowly. The article I read suggested that
                  holding the mash at 100F for 20 minutes will usually result in
                  several points improvement in the yeild. With the small batches we
                  are working with, every point counts.

                  Flaming_pinto


                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > This is almost identical to my procedure except I don't add sugar
                  and
                  > I ferment and distill on the grain.
                  > I've had a few failed batches when I used only amalyse powdered
                  > enzymes from the local homebrew store. I don't know whether the
                  > amalyse powder wasn't a proper mixture of the different types of
                  > enzymes, or if it was just dead. I don't think many people buy the
                  > powdered enzymes so who knows how long it has been sitting on the
                  > shelf. I have had good luck when using malted barley for the enzyme
                  > action.
                  > I usually cook my corn longer than 1 hour (at almost boiling). I've
                  > used both cracked corn and fine meal. The meal takes less cooking
                  and
                  > has better yield, but you can't strain it and you must ferment and
                  > distill on the grain. My boiler has electric elements and I haven't
                  > (as of yet) had any problems scorching a corn wash. I use extra
                  water
                  > to help prevent this.
                  >
                  > The only trouble I've had with scorching is with a pears. I ran
                  some
                  > pears through the sausage grinder and then fermented and
                  distilled. I
                  > think the wash was thick enough that it wasn't 'self stirring' when
                  > heated, and the pear flesh seemed to be acting as an insulator. A
                  bad
                  > combination.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "flaming_pinto"
                  > <flaming_pinto@y...> wrote:
                  > > I just finished a corn wash which turned out VERY nice, so let me
                  > add
                  > > my two cents in here.
                  > >
                  > > I used cracked, unmalted feed corn and malted 6-row barley (from
                  > the
                  > > brew shop) in the follwing ratio:
                  > >
                  > > 8 lbs corn
                  > > 3 lbs barley
                  > > 3 lbs corn-sugar (to boost alc. percentage)
                  > >
                  > > You have to boil the hell out of the corn to get the starch out -
                  I
                  > > boiled for an hour in two 20-quart pans. Then you bring the temp
                  > > down to 150F and add the barley. Hold at 150-155F for an hour -
                  > > (this is when the corn gets converted to sugars). Drain the
                  liquid
                  > > off the grains and make up to 5 or 6 gallons, depending on your
                  > > fermentor. You can also brew on the grains and drain before
                  > > distilling.
                  > >
                  > > I then reduced the temp to 85F, added the corn-sugar, 24oz of
                  > > molasses for nutrients, and pitched a good quality grain yeast
                  (Red
                  > > Star brand "Distiller's" yeast). After 3 days of brisk
                  > fermentation,
                  > > I distilled a gallon of excellent young whiskey @ 40%.
                  > >
                  > > Some of it we drank as-is, and some of it I put on oak. The stuff
                  > I
                  > > put on oak rivals the best commercial whiskeys I have had.
                  > >
                  > > Hope this helps. I am in the process of brewing up some scotch
                  > using
                  > > all matled barley (10 pounds 2-row, 5 pounds 6-row. I can't wait
                  > to
                  > > see how this turns out after oaking.
                  > >
                  > > flaming_pinto
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
                  > > <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > All this Good info. I surly do Appreciate to Guys. Excellant
                  > info.
                  > > I
                  > > > don't mind the extra work if just for the sake of trying
                  > something
                  > > > diffrent, ya know? Thanks again
                  > > >
                  > > > Frank
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "headcavedin"
                  > > > <headcavedin@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > Hey! I want to do a Corn wash. I understand how to go about
                  > > letting
                  > > > > it sprout and then to grind. The sprout is where the enzymes
                  > > comes
                  > > > > from, correct? What I need to know is what type of corn to
                  look
                  > > > for.
                  > > > > Do I understand correctly That I need to look for a Non-
                  Hybird?
                  > > > Thanks
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Frank
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