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Re: [new_distillers] Thumper in multi-series

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  • BOKAKOB
    This, I think, is correct. The heat loss should be compensated by vapors carried from the main pot. Also, the heat loss can also be minimized by adding an
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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      This, I think, is correct. The heat loss should be compensated by vapors carried from the main pot. Also, the heat loss can also be minimized by adding an insulation. The question is about a different aspect of the setup. For example, a series of small thumper jars set atop of the main pot cover in a circular pattern, one feeding the next one in series. Being on top of the boiler, the heat loss will be minimal. With overflow guard spigots, the excess of liquid in thumpers will be conveniently redirected back in the main boiler. This way I could see easily four to six thumper sitting on top of a boiler. Attached picture will illustrate the idea.

      Frank Baxley <poppafrank2001@...> wrote: I was woundering on heat loss in the vapors as they go to the other thumpers? Seems like there would be a heat loss. Would a person need to heat the thumpers some to keep the heat up and the vapors at the max? I think you would but maybe not.

      BOKAKOB wrote:
      Discounting why and how, it appears that one thumper helps to increase the distillate concentration. Then comes the next logical question, will two thumpers in series boost the strength of the distillate even more? How about three thumpers, the other one following the previous thumpers? Will it work as it appears should? Any thought is appreciated. Thank you, Alex�







      I can be wrong I must say
      Cheers, Alex...
      A


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    • corn_wash
      by pre heating the thumper, thumpers the loss of alc. would be unnoticed... ... vapors carried from the main pot. Also, the heat loss can also be minimized by
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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        by pre heating the thumper, thumpers the loss of alc. would be
        unnoticed...


        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
        > This, I think, is correct. The heat loss should be compensated by
        vapors carried from the main pot. Also, the heat loss can also be
        minimized by adding an insulation. The question is about a different
        aspect of the setup. For example, a series of small thumper jars set
        atop of the main pot cover in a circular pattern, one feeding the
        next one in series. Being on top of the boiler, the heat loss will be
        minimal. With overflow guard spigots, the excess of liquid in
        thumpers will be conveniently redirected back in the main boiler.
        This way I could see easily four to six thumper sitting on top of a
        boiler. Attached picture will illustrate the idea.
        >
        > Frank Baxley <poppafrank2001@y...> wrote: I was woundering on heat
        loss in the vapors as they go to the other thumpers? Seems like there
        would be a heat loss. Would a person need to heat the thumpers some
        to keep the heat up and the vapors at the max? I think you would but
        maybe not.
        >
        > BOKAKOB wrote:
        > Discounting why and how, it appears that one thumper helps to
        increase the distillate concentration. Then comes the next logical
        question, will two thumpers in series boost the strength of the
        distillate even more? How about three thumpers, the other one
        following the previous thumpers? Will it work as it appears should?
        Any thought is appreciated. Thank you, Alex…
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I can be wrong I must say
        > Cheers, Alex...
        > A
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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        > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
        ... You d just need to ensure that the pressure drop through each wasn t too great - else the seal on the main boiler will be having a tough job to do. Tony
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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          > boiler. This way I could see easily four to six thumper
          > sitting on top of a boiler. Attached picture will illustrate the idea.

          You'd just need to ensure that the pressure drop through each wasn't too great - else the seal on the main boiler will be having a tough job to do.

          Tony
        • BOKAKOB
          Agree with that. The tubes should not go deep under the surface of the thumpers, only about 1/8 (3 mm) or so. So, is it workable? I think so. Am I going to do
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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            Agree with that. The tubes should not go deep under the surface of the thumpers, only about 1/8" (3 mm) or so. So, is it workable? I think so. Am I going to do it? Mostlikely --not, because I already have a nice one...

            "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@...> wrote:> boiler. This way I could see easily four to six thumper > sitting on top of a boiler. Attached picture will illustrate the idea.

            You'd just need to ensure that the pressure drop through each wasn't too great - else the seal on the main boiler will be having a tough job to do. Tony



            I can be wrong I must say
            Cheers, Alex...
            A


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Wil
            Hi Alex, my understanding of the Thumper operation is that the steam generated by the pot still bubbles up through the second fermenter Scrubbing alcohol
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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              Hi Alex,

              my understanding of the "Thumper" operation is that the steam
              generated by the pot still bubbles up through the second
              fermenter "Scrubbing" alcohol off the next wash thus increasing it's
              concentration, the problem I see adding more thumpers is the
              thermal loss factor in the formula, in that as the steam flows from
              one thumper to another the thermal energy is dissipated more and
              more, it would take some time for the last thumper to actually get
              hot enough from the previous steam to be useful.. of course if you
              got a week to make a run, it's no problem except the the original
              wash would have long since been dryed up..

              Wil

              Ain't Yeast Ranching a hoot!!

              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Discounting why and how, it appears that one thumper helps to
              increase the distillate concentration. Then comes the next logical
              question, will two thumpers in series boost the strength of the
              distillate even more? How about three thumpers, the other one
              following the previous thumpers? Will it work as it appears should?
              Any thought is appreciated. Thank you, Alex…
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I can be wrong I must say
              > Cheers, Alex...
              > A
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mike Nixon
              Wil wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series my understanding of the Thumper operation is that the steam generated by the pot still
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                Wil wrote:
                Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series

                my understanding of the "Thumper" operation is that the steam
                generated by the pot still bubbles up through the second
                fermenter "Scrubbing" alcohol off the next wash thus increasing it's
                concentration, the problem I see adding more thumpers is the
                thermal loss factor in the formula, in that as the steam flows from
                one thumper to another the thermal energy is dissipated more and
                more, it would take some time for the last thumper to actually get
                hot enough from the previous steam to be useful.. of course if you
                got a week to make a run, it's no problem except the the original
                wash would have long since been dryed up..
                ================
                Hi Wil,

                Not really ... heat 'liberated' by condensing vapor is used to boil the
                liquid in the thumper ... providing, that is, the liquid has a lower boiling
                point than the temperature of the vapor because it is richer in volatiles
                than the vapor, ie the liquid has come from the next stage in the thumper
                system. The heat progresses through the system just like it does in a
                packed column.

                Mike N
              • corn_wash
                hey Mike,to heack with the still im going to make 5. 2gal thumpers, heat #1 when it goes dry close the valve that i have placed between each and start heating
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                  hey Mike,to heack with the still im going to make 5. 2gal thumpers,
                  heat #1 when it goes dry close the valve that i have placed between
                  each and start heating the next and so on till i get to the last
                  thumper...................

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                  > Wil wrote:
                  > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series
                  >
                  > my understanding of the "Thumper" operation is that the steam
                  > generated by the pot still bubbles up through the second
                  > fermenter "Scrubbing" alcohol off the next wash thus increasing it's
                  > concentration, the problem I see adding more thumpers is the
                  > thermal loss factor in the formula, in that as the steam flows from
                  > one thumper to another the thermal energy is dissipated more and
                  > more, it would take some time for the last thumper to actually get
                  > hot enough from the previous steam to be useful.. of course if you
                  > got a week to make a run, it's no problem except the the original
                  > wash would have long since been dryed up..
                  > ================
                  > Hi Wil,
                  >
                  > Not really ... heat 'liberated' by condensing vapor is used to boil
                  the
                  > liquid in the thumper ... providing, that is, the liquid has a
                  lower boiling
                  > point than the temperature of the vapor because it is richer in
                  volatiles
                  > than the vapor, ie the liquid has come from the next stage in the
                  thumper
                  > system. The heat progresses through the system just like it does
                  in a
                  > packed column.
                  >
                  > Mike N
                • Wil
                  I stand Corrected Mike, But that s what im here for, to learn form those more learned than I, Thanks for the clarification.. :o) ... it s ... boil the ...
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                    I stand Corrected Mike, But that's what im here for, to learn form
                    those more learned than I, Thanks for the clarification.. :o)

                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...>
                    wrote:
                    > Wil wrote:
                    > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series
                    >
                    > my understanding of the "Thumper" operation is that the steam
                    > generated by the pot still bubbles up through the second
                    > fermenter "Scrubbing" alcohol off the next wash thus increasing
                    it's
                    > concentration, the problem I see adding more thumpers is the
                    > thermal loss factor in the formula, in that as the steam flows from
                    > one thumper to another the thermal energy is dissipated more and
                    > more, it would take some time for the last thumper to actually get
                    > hot enough from the previous steam to be useful.. of course if you
                    > got a week to make a run, it's no problem except the the original
                    > wash would have long since been dryed up..
                    > ================
                    > Hi Wil,
                    >
                    > Not really ... heat 'liberated' by condensing vapor is used to
                    boil the
                    > liquid in the thumper ... providing, that is, the liquid has a
                    lower boiling
                    > point than the temperature of the vapor because it is richer in
                    volatiles
                    > than the vapor, ie the liquid has come from the next stage in the
                    thumper
                    > system. The heat progresses through the system just like it does
                    in a
                    > packed column.
                    >
                    > Mike N
                  • Mike Nixon
                    corn_wash wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series hey Mike,to heack with the still im going to make 5. 2gal thumpers, heat #1 when it goes
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                      corn_wash wrote:
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series

                      hey Mike,to heack with the still im going to make 5. 2gal thumpers,
                      heat #1 when it goes dry close the valve that i have placed between
                      each and start heating the next and so on till i get to the last
                      thumper...................
                      =====================
                      Hi Corn,
                      How the heck are you going to make that work, and why do you think the
                      thumpers will run dry?
                      I'm obviously missing something :-) Good luck anyway. Sounds like fun.
                      Mike N
                    • corn_wash
                      hi mike , after i wrote it i cought myself, the term runnying dry ment when the alc.went to about 20 proof or less this will be done with a removable condenser
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                        hi mike , after i wrote it i cought myself, the term runnying dry
                        ment when the alc.went to about 20 proof or less this will be done
                        with a removable condenser at each cut off vavle just for checking,
                        (caveat emptor)

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                        > corn_wash wrote:
                        > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series
                        >
                        > hey Mike,to heack with the still im going to make 5. 2gal thumpers,
                        > heat #1 when it goes dry close the valve that i have placed between
                        > each and start heating the next and so on till i get to the last
                        > thumper...................
                        > =====================
                        > Hi Corn,
                        > How the heck are you going to make that work, and why do you think
                        the
                        > thumpers will run dry?
                        > I'm obviously missing something :-) Good luck anyway. Sounds like
                        fun.
                        > Mike N
                      • Mike Nixon
                        corn_wash wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series hi mike , after i wrote it i cought myself, the term runnying dry ment when the alc.went
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                          corn_wash wrote:
                          Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series


                          hi mike , after i wrote it i cought myself, the term runnying dry
                          ment when the alc.went to about 20 proof or less this will be done
                          with a removable condenser at each cut off vavle just for checking,
                          (caveat emptor)
                          =============
                          Gottit :-)
                          Incidentally, does "caveat emptor" mean "beware of empty thumpers"?
                          Mike N
                        • corn_wash
                          yes...
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                            yes...

                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                            > corn_wash wrote:
                            > Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Thumper in multi-series
                            >
                            >
                            > hi mike , after i wrote it i cought myself, the term runnying dry
                            > ment when the alc.went to about 20 proof or less this will be done
                            > with a removable condenser at each cut off vavle just for checking,
                            > (caveat emptor)
                            > =============
                            > Gottit :-)
                            > Incidentally, does "caveat emptor" mean "beware of empty thumpers"?
                            > Mike N
                          • BOKAKOB
                            This is correct. The heat loss will be compensated by vapors carried from the main pot and the heat loss can also be offset by adding an insulation. The
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 9, 2003
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                              This is correct. The heat loss will be compensated by vapors carried from the main pot and the heat loss can also be offset by adding an insulation. The question is about a different aspect of the setup. For example, a series of small thumper jars set atop of the main pot cover in a circular pattern in series. Being on top of the boiler, the heat loss will be minimal. With overflow guard spigots, the excess of liquid in thumpers will be conveniently redirected back in the main boiler. This way I could see easily four to six thumper sitting on top of a boiler. Attached picture will illustrate the idea.

                              Frank Baxley <poppafrank2001@...> wrote: I was woundering on heat loss in the vapors as they go to the other thumpers? Seems like there would be a heat loss. Would a person need to heat the thumpers some to keep the heat up and the vapors at the max? I think you would but maybe not.

                              BOKAKOB wrote:
                              Discounting why and how, it appears that one thumper helps to increase the distillate concentration. Then comes the next logical question, will two thumpers in series boost the strength of the distillate even more? How about three thumpers, the other one following the previous thumpers? Will it work as it appears should? Any thought is appreciated. Thank you, Alex�





                              I can be wrong I must say
                              Cheers, Alex...



                              ---------------------------------
                              Do you Yahoo!?
                              Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                              ... It will all depend very much on the starting composition in each thumper, the amount of vapour that is being transfered from one to the next, and how long
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 9, 2003
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                                > Discounting why and how, it appears that one thumper helps to
                                > increase the distillate concentration. Then comes the next
                                > logical question, will two thumpers in series boost the
                                > strength of the distillate even more? How about three
                                > thumpers, the other one following the previous thumpers? Will
                                > it work as it appears should? Any thought is appreciated.

                                It will all depend very much on the starting composition in each thumper, the amount of vapour that is being transfered from one to the next, and how long you run it for. If you start them off reasonably high in % it may work well. If low in % it wont work - the liquid will simply accumulate in one or more of them as the incoming flowrate and % wont have sufficient ability to cause a higher % vapour to be generated.

                                Have you had a look at http://homedistiller.org/Thumper.xls ?
                                I could probably modify it to have a couple of thumpers in series - but you can already see the pattern when just modelling one of them.

                                Tony
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