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Re: [new_distillers] First run

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  • Harley Daschund
    Next time,dont dilute b4 the second run...but,thats my personal opinion....: ) ... _________________________________________________________________ The new
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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      Next time,dont dilute b4 the second run...but,thats my personal
      opinion....:>)


      >From: "timmur64" <timmur64@...>
      >Subject: [new_distillers] First run

      >Well the first run was a sucess!.... we took the
      >output from the stripping run and diluted it with water .....

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    • BOKAKOB
      Congratulations! timmur64 wrote:Well the first run was a sucess! The wash was a 6 kg/turbo. I did a stripping run with the somewhat cloudy
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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        Congratulations!

        timmur64 <timmur64@...> wrote:
        Well the first run was a sucess! The wash was a 6 kg/turbo. I did a
        stripping run with the somewhat cloudy sugar wash. The temp rose to
        182 F and slowly crept up throughout the stripping run. The average
        output was about 70% ABV. After the stripping run, we took the
        output from the stripping run and diluted it with water and started
        the still equalibriating. As soon as the wash started boiling, the
        head temp jumped up to 178 F. Within 15 min, the head temp dropped
        to 168 F and stayed there for about 40 min. At this point I drew off
        about 125 ml and reserved this as lighter fluid. Started collecting
        the heads after this and expected the temp to change, but it never
        did. Kept seperating output into 500 ml containers. We monitored the
        output throughout the run and it never went below 94% until the
        tails. I don't understand why the temp never went to 172, but
        everything seemed to go fine besides this. The thermometer was
        calbrated before we started and was accurate. In any case, the run
        was a success and thanks to everyone who offered advice.



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        I can be wrong I must say
        Cheers, Alex...
        A


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      • timmur64
        BOKABOB, isn t it unusual to have a column reach equalibrium so quickly? I could ve waited longer than the 40 min to see if the temp was gonna drop more, but
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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          BOKABOB, isn't it unusual to have a column reach equalibrium so
          quickly? I could've waited longer than the 40 min to see if the temp
          was gonna drop more, but didn't since it already had dropped after
          the first 15-20 min. I'm fairly certain that good separation was
          achieved as the first 100 ml of stuff smelled like lighter fluid.
          Also, the temp stayed rock steady until the very end and then
          suddenly jumped up all at once. Do you think I waited long enough
          before starting to collect the output? The still seems to perform
          real well. I opened the output valve up until the head temp started
          to rise, then backed it off just a touch. The output was about 7-7.5
          ml/min.
          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
          > Congratulations!
        • lapsnuit
          Hello, I found out trough experience that 95% of equilibrium can be achived in like 15 minutes. If you hold on a little longer temp may drop 0.1 or 0.2 more
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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            Hello,

            I found out trough experience that 95% of equilibrium can be achived
            in like 15 minutes. If you hold on a little longer temp may drop
            0.1 or 0.2 more (celsius) However I also found that it is of no real
            influence on the amount of foreshot, maybe a little like 50cc or so.

            But being very picky on the quality of the alcohol I wait the extra
            half hour. So a 100% reflux time of around 45 minutes.

            Results are extremely good at the moment and I think I found a good
            way of working.

            Cheers



            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "timmur64" <timmur64@y...>
            wrote:
            > Well the first run was a sucess! The wash was a 6 kg/turbo. I did
            a
            > stripping run with the somewhat cloudy sugar wash. The temp rose
            to
            > 182 F and slowly crept up throughout the stripping run. The
            average
            > output was about 70% ABV. After the stripping run, we took the
            > output from the stripping run and diluted it with water and
            started
            > the still equalibriating. As soon as the wash started boiling, the
            > head temp jumped up to 178 F. Within 15 min, the head temp dropped
            > to 168 F and stayed there for about 40 min. At this point I drew
            off
            > about 125 ml and reserved this as lighter fluid. Started
            collecting
            > the heads after this and expected the temp to change, but it never
            > did. Kept seperating output into 500 ml containers. We monitored
            the
            > output throughout the run and it never went below 94% until the
            > tails. I don't understand why the temp never went to 172, but
            > everything seemed to go fine besides this. The thermometer was
            > calbrated before we started and was accurate. In any case, the run
            > was a success and thanks to everyone who offered advice.
          • BOKAKOB
            It is usual for the column to stabilize within 15 minutes, sometimes even less. I would give it a time, so whatever light fraction is in the wash would collect
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 4, 2003
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              It is usual for the column to stabilize within 15 minutes, sometimes even less. I would give it a time, so whatever light fraction is in the wash would collect at the top of the column. If you start drafting at very slow speed, then the light fractions would be able to catch up with the rate you draw them out.

              It is easy to smell �lighter fluid� in the first 100mL of distillate. Make sure that it does not smell like it in the main run :-) I usually discard first 120-150mL then separate 30% of theoretical volume of alcohol (those 120-150mL are part of it) and only after that start collection. It is usually 40%. The rest goes to storage canister for redistilling. I don�t wait until the temperature starts to rise. The main distillate take I redistill second time making sure the start of take off does not smell nail polish. Only then it is ready for use. I guess if the second distillate gets polished with carbon it would make it even better, putting to shame many commersial vodkas, but I don�t bother.

              The take off rate seems to be good. What can I say? I am not very good at theory. If it works � don�t fix it. This is my slogan. What you described seems to be OK. Good luck and congratulations!



              I can be wrong I must say
              Cheers, Alex...
              A


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            • Clive Milne
              Hi guys, Just had a run with a new valved reflux still, It has a little over 1.1 meters of packing height (structured copper mesh), driven by a 1400W element.
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 28, 2003
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                Hi guys,
                Just had a run with a new valved reflux still, It has a little
                over 1.1 meters of packing height (structured copper mesh), driven
                by a 1400W element. With a 4:1 reflux ratio, the spirit came out
                at 96%. (Generous amount of fore-shots excluded)
                However... there is still a noticable undertaste that I can only
                describe as like isopropyl in taste/smell. Comparing this base spirit
                to a freinds efforts with an 8" commercial collumn where he gets 80%,
                it seems to be on par with his triple distilled spirit.
                Anyway, the question is, can I do anything to minimise the
                capture of these floavours? Will double distilling reduce them
                further? Is activated carbon effective?
                Thanks in advance.
                Clive.
              • abbababbaccc
                It seems there s something wrong with your system. As with valved reflux still do you mean the one that has two valves, one for take off and one for reflux? If
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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                  It seems there's something wrong with your system. As with valved
                  reflux still do you mean the one that has two valves, one for take
                  off and one for reflux? If so, are you sure there's not higher
                  temperature vapors coming up via return line? I had this problem with
                  my first N/S style column. Vapor lock in the reflux return line and
                  making sure that the reflux line dripping is above the packing and in
                  the center of the column circumference should solve this.

                  BTW, hope you have at least 50mm column, otherwise you'll have too
                  high vaporspeed assuming good insulation which may also be your
                  problem.

                  Greetz, Riku

                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Clive Milne" <milnecd@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi guys,
                  > Just had a run with a new valved reflux still, It has a
                  little
                  > over 1.1 meters of packing height (structured copper mesh), driven
                  > by a 1400W element. With a 4:1 reflux ratio, the spirit came out
                  > at 96%. (Generous amount of fore-shots excluded)
                  > However... there is still a noticable undertaste that I can only
                  > describe as like isopropyl in taste/smell. Comparing this base
                  spirit
                  > to a freinds efforts with an 8" commercial collumn where he gets
                  80%,
                  > it seems to be on par with his triple distilled spirit.
                  > Anyway, the question is, can I do anything to minimise the
                  > capture of these floavours? Will double distilling reduce them
                  > further? Is activated carbon effective?
                  > Thanks in advance.
                  > Clive.
                • Clive Milne
                  ... It s very similar to this: http://www.moonshine-still.com/Photo/newstill.jpg Except the liquid collected exits the bottom of the condensor via a single
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc"
                    <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
                    > As with valved reflux still do you mean the one that has two
                    > valves, one for take off and one for reflux?

                    It's very similar to this:
                    http://www.moonshine-still.com/Photo/newstill.jpg
                    Except the liquid collected exits the bottom of the condensor
                    via a single 1/4" tube which then tees off to the reflux valve
                    and also to the product control valve.

                    > If so, are you sure there's not higher
                    > temperature vapors coming up via return line?

                    I don't think so, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

                    > I had this problem with my first N/S style column.
                    > Vapor lock in the reflux return line .

                    Hmmm, the reflux return line has a reasonable slope back
                    into the collumn so I wouldn't have assumed there would be a
                    vapour lock there, also, the run was made with the reflux valve
                    wide open.... it was assumed that whatever didn't get taken as
                    product would automatically flow down as reflux?

                    > and making sure that the reflux line dripping is above the
                    > packing and in the center of the column circumference
                    > should solve this.

                    Errm... I think the packing was pushed up to the point of
                    contacting the flared end of the reflux return line. The packing
                    was rolled quite tightly so removing it is going to be a bit of
                    a pain I imagine. Incidently, how important is it for the
                    collumn to be perfectly vertical?


                    > BTW, hope you have at least 50mm column,

                    Yes, that is correct.

                    > otherwise you'll have too high vaporspeed assuming good
                    > insulation which may also be your problem.

                    The collumn itself was un-insulated at the time.

                    Thanks for your input so far,
                    Cheers,
                    Clive.
                  • Clive Milne
                    Incidently, pressure was controlled (rightly or wrongly) by backing off the cooling water until the system was obviously at a positive pressure (spirit weeping
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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                      Incidently, pressure was controlled (rightly or wrongly) by
                      backing off the cooling water until the system was obviously
                      at a positive pressure (spirit weeping out from under the
                      top cap) Then increased cooling water flow just up to the point
                      where that stopped?

                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Clive Milne" <milnecd@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi guys,
                      > Just had a run with a new valved reflux still, It has a
                      little
                      > over 1.1 meters of packing height (structured copper mesh), driven
                      > by a 1400W element. With a 4:1 reflux ratio, the spirit came out
                      > at 96%. (Generous amount of fore-shots excluded)
                      > However... there is still a noticable undertaste that I can only
                      > describe as like isopropyl in taste/smell. Comparing this base
                      spirit
                      > to a freinds efforts with an 8" commercial collumn where he gets
                      80%,
                      > it seems to be on par with his triple distilled spirit.
                      > Anyway, the question is, can I do anything to minimise the
                      > capture of these floavours? Will double distilling reduce them
                      > further? Is activated carbon effective?
                      > Thanks in advance.
                      > Clive.
                    • mikejwoodnz
                      ... Jim, - that s a great tip - I always have plenty of backset (dunder) as I keep it from my first whisky run for the next ferment. Next time I do the spirit
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 28, 2009
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                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Again, the higher the ABV of the second distillation,
                        > the more flavors will be lost.
                        >
                        > Also, a trick I learned to enhance flavors on a spirits distillation, is
                        > to use the backset from the first distillation or, some more of the same
                        > fermenation to dilute with instead of filtered water.
                        > Vino es Veritas,
                        > Jim aka Waldo.

                        Jim,
                        - that's a great tip - I always have plenty of backset (dunder) as I keep it from my first whisky run for the next ferment. Next time I do the spirit run I will add some to the still charge.
                        - cheers Mike
                      • johnsmith24668
                        I just finished my first shot at making a batch of MUM wash. I d appreciate feedback if my yield is about where I should expect. I started with two 4 gallon
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 19, 2013
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                          I just finished my first shot at making a batch of MUM wash. I'd appreciate feedback if my yield is about where I should expect.

                          I started with two 4 gallon washes, 1.082 for one, 1.080 for the second and both fermented out to 0.99.

                          Stripped both ferments together collecting everything to about 210F/98C at which point I was getting 22% coming off, uncorrected for temperature). I collected a bit under 1.5 gallons at 45%. Treated with bicarb for a week.

                          Ran again, with water to cover elements which diluted the charge to 28%. Discarded the first few drips, and started collecting around 172/78 up to 203/95. Yielded a bit under a gallon at about 65%, and again added bicarb.

                          Last run I read the gallon at 64% going in, 30% after adding water. Yielded about 4 cups/1 quart of heads around 71%, a bit under 3 cups of hearts at 61%, and about 2.75c of tails at 51%.

                          I made the cuts using the multiple jar method, going by smell and taste (cutting in half with water). As I was only collecting about 0.75c per jar, I didn't have enough to determine the % of each bottle.

                          It's a lot of numbers! Thanks for casting an eye over it, and any feedback would be very much appreciated.
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