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Mash confusion and bucket still

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  • Bob Bourne
    I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert spoons of dry yeast. It s been sitting 2-3 days. I ve just used my (beer) hydrometer to
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 29, 2003
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      I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert spoons
      of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.

      I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content and it's
      bobbing around the 80/90 mark.

      Is that what I should expect?

      Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.

      I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?

      Bob Bourne.
    • Darryl Ward
      Hello Bob I would normally use 5 kg of sugar to 20 litres of water. SG at start is around 1090, and around 990 at finish.... so I am not sure what you mean by
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 29, 2003
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        Hello Bob

        I would normally use 5 kg of sugar to 20 litres of water.

        SG at start is around 1090, and around 990 at finish.... so I am not sure
        what you mean by "the 80/90" mark. If you mean "980/990", then fermentation
        is complete; if however you mean "1080/1090", then you have a stuck
        fermentation.

        What sort of yeast did you use? I would normally go for a spirit yeast,
        (such as Turbo Yeast), or if you can not get one something like a champagne
        yeast... but certainly NOT a bakers' yeast.

        Also, if you are using straight yeast, you would want to add some nutrients.
        These generally come already included with spirit yeasts, however, for 20
        litres, the following should suffice:

        4 tsp "yeast nutrient salts" (a mixture for winemakers from brew shops)
        4 or more tsp citric acid (to raise acidity... use testing tapers to get it
        to around 3.5 pH)
        2-3 tbsp molasses
        1 tsp Marmite (leave it out if you can't get it)

        If you do indeed have a "stuck fermentation", add perhaps a little more
        sugar, nutrients and yeast as described above, and see how you go.

        Good luck!

        Cheers

        Darryl

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 11:03 AM
        Subject: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


        > I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert spoons
        > of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.
        >
        > I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content and
        it's
        > bobbing around the 80/90 mark.
        >
        > Is that what I should expect?
        >
        > Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.
        >
        > I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?
        >
        > Bob Bourne.
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Harley Daschund
        Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with plain yeast...what type yeast did you use? ...
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 29, 2003
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          Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
          'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?





          >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
          >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
          >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:03:06 +1000
          >
          >I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert spoons
          >of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.
          >
          >I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content and it's
          >bobbing around the 80/90 mark.
          >
          >Is that what I should expect?
          >
          >Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.
          >
          >I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?
          >
          >Bob Bourne.
          >


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        • Bob Bourne
          ... Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page 36-7. In part - Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 29, 2003
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            Harley wrote:
            > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
            > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?

            Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page
            36-7.

            In part -
            "Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine [you] will
            find the fermentation of supermarket sugar with baker's yeast in laundry
            tub a rather simple and crude procedure. Don't be disconcerted by this. All
            we are doing at this stage is producing the alcohol we need."

            I used Lowan Instant Dried Yeast. It was very active. My problem was trying
            to work out what the hydrometer readings meant - a reading of 80-90 It's a
            Brewiser beer kit hydrometer.

            Bob Bourne.
          • Mike Nixon
            Bob Bourne wrote: Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still ... Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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              Bob Bourne wrote:
              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still

              Harley wrote:
              > Bob...you are
              wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
              > 'plain'
              yeast...what type yeast did you use?

              Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page 36-7.
              =============================
              Bob,
               
              Harley is absolutely right.  Bakers yeast is the last thing you want to use.  This was a bone of contention between John Stone and myself, but he insisted that he was right as he was a PhD chemist, and I'm not.  The fact is that bakers yeast is not alcohol tolerant and dies at anything much above 8% abv.  It also produces a heap of congeners that you have to strip out.  There are many good yeasts designed for sugar ferments that ferment to higher levels of alcohol and with less congeners, and turbo mixtures that do even better as they include the nutrients that sugar alone does not provide.  That book is well past its 'use by' date on the matter of fermentation, and we have all moved on from there.
               
              Mike N
               
            • spoliatio
              Hi Mike Good to see you back ..... getting worried. Must have been hols :-) Spoliatio ... with ... Nixon, page 36-7. ... want to use. This was a bone of
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                Hi Mike

                Good to see you back ..... getting worried. Must have been hols :-)
                Spoliatio

                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                > Bob Bourne wrote:
                > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                >
                > Harley wrote:
                > > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water
                with
                > > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?
                >
                > Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael
                Nixon, page 36-7.
                > =============================
                > Bob,
                >
                > Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the last thing you
                want to use. This was a bone of contention between John Stone and
                myself, but he insisted that he was right as he was a PhD chemist,
                and I'm not. The fact is that bakers yeast is not alcohol tolerant
                and dies at anything much above 8% abv. It also produces a heap of
                congeners that you have to strip out. There are many good yeasts
                designed for sugar ferments that ferment to higher levels of alcohol
                and with less congeners, and turbo mixtures that do even better as
                they include the nutrients that sugar alone does not provide. That
                book is well past its 'use by' date on the matter of fermentation,
                and we have all moved on from there.
                >
                > Mike N
              • Harley Daschund
                Since I dont own the publication you mentioned,I have to assume it contradicts my statement...if it works for you,go for it...I have had very little success
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                  Since I dont own the publication you mentioned,I have to assume it
                  contradicts my statement...if it works for you,go for it...I have had very
                  little success using anything other than a 'Turbo' yeast with sugar
                  washs.....:>)






                  >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                  >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                  >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:32:14 +1000
                  >
                  >Harley wrote:
                  > > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
                  > > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?
                  >
                  >Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page
                  >36-7.
                  >
                  >In part -
                  >"Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine [you] will
                  >find the fermentation of supermarket sugar with baker's yeast in laundry
                  >tub a rather simple and crude procedure. Don't be disconcerted by this. All
                  >we are doing at this stage is producing the alcohol we need."
                  >
                  >I used Lowan Instant Dried Yeast. It was very active. My problem was trying
                  >to work out what the hydrometer readings meant - a reading of 80-90 It's a
                  >Brewiser beer kit hydrometer.
                  >
                  >Bob Bourne.
                  >


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                • Bob Bourne
                  OK. Thanks for the updated information Mike. It was just an experiment anyway, I ll tip it out. Bob. ... From: Mike Nixon To:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                    OK. Thanks for the updated information Mike.

                    It was just an experiment anyway, I'll tip it out.

                    Bob.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Mike Nixon" <mike@...>
                    To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 7:22 PM
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


                    Bob Bourne wrote:
                    Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still

                    Harley wrote:
                    > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
                    > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?

                    Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon, page
                    36-7.
                    =============================
                    Bob,

                    Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the last thing you want to use.
                    This was a bone of contention between John Stone and myself, but he insisted
                    that he was right as he was a PhD chemist, and I'm not. The fact is that
                    bakers yeast is not alcohol tolerant and dies at anything much above 8% abv.
                    It also produces a heap of congeners that you have to strip out. There are
                    many good yeasts designed for sugar ferments that ferment to higher levels
                    of alcohol and with less congeners, and turbo mixtures that do even better
                    as they include the nutrients that sugar alone does not provide. That book
                    is well past its 'use by' date on the matter of fermentation, and we have
                    all moved on from there.

                    Mike N
                  • Bob Bourne
                    Evidently you are correct Harley, see Mike s email. I ll tip it out! Bob. ... From: Harley Daschund To:
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                      Evidently you are correct Harley, see Mike's email. I'll tip it out!

                      Bob.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Harley Daschund" <harley_daschund@...>
                      To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:00 AM
                      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


                      > Since I dont own the publication you mentioned,I have to assume it
                      > contradicts my statement...if it works for you,go for it...I have had very
                      > little success using anything other than a 'Turbo' yeast with sugar
                      > washs.....:>)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                      > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                      > >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:32:14 +1000
                      > >
                      > >Harley wrote:
                      > > > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water with
                      > > > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?
                      > >
                      > >Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon,
                      page
                      > >36-7.
                      > >
                      > >In part -
                      > >"Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine [you]
                      will
                      > >find the fermentation of supermarket sugar with baker's yeast in laundry
                      > >tub a rather simple and crude procedure. Don't be disconcerted by this.
                      All
                      > >we are doing at this stage is producing the alcohol we need."
                      > >
                      > >I used Lowan Instant Dried Yeast. It was very active. My problem was
                      trying
                      > >to work out what the hydrometer readings meant - a reading of 80-90 It's
                      a
                      > >Brewiser beer kit hydrometer.
                      > >
                      > >Bob Bourne.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                      > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Bob Bourne
                      Hello Darryl, Thanks for your wash suggestions. I ll give it a go! Cheers, Bob. ... From: Darryl Ward To:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                        Hello Darryl,

                        Thanks for your wash suggestions. I'll give it a go!

                        Cheers,

                        Bob.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Darryl Ward" <taliesin@...>
                        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 10:23 AM
                        Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


                        > Hello Bob
                        >
                        > I would normally use 5 kg of sugar to 20 litres of water.
                        >
                        > SG at start is around 1090, and around 990 at finish.... so I am not sure
                        > what you mean by "the 80/90" mark. If you mean "980/990", then
                        fermentation
                        > is complete; if however you mean "1080/1090", then you have a stuck
                        > fermentation.
                        >
                        > What sort of yeast did you use? I would normally go for a spirit yeast,
                        > (such as Turbo Yeast), or if you can not get one something like a
                        champagne
                        > yeast... but certainly NOT a bakers' yeast.
                        >
                        > Also, if you are using straight yeast, you would want to add some
                        nutrients.
                        > These generally come already included with spirit yeasts, however, for 20
                        > litres, the following should suffice:
                        >
                        > 4 tsp "yeast nutrient salts" (a mixture for winemakers from brew shops)
                        > 4 or more tsp citric acid (to raise acidity... use testing tapers to get
                        it
                        > to around 3.5 pH)
                        > 2-3 tbsp molasses
                        > 1 tsp Marmite (leave it out if you can't get it)
                        >
                        > If you do indeed have a "stuck fermentation", add perhaps a little more
                        > sugar, nutrients and yeast as described above, and see how you go.
                        >
                        > Good luck!
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        >
                        > Darryl
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                        > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 11:03 AM
                        > Subject: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                        >
                        >
                        > > I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert
                        spoons
                        > > of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.
                        > >
                        > > I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content and
                        > it's
                        > > bobbing around the 80/90 mark.
                        > >
                        > > Is that what I should expect?
                        > >
                        > > Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.
                        > >
                        > > I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?
                        > >
                        > > Bob Bourne.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                        ... No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes. ... I d agree here too - but note as the last thing to use.. I wouldn t say never use it - if
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                          > It was just an experiment anyway, I'll tip it out.

                          No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes.

                          >> Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the
                          >> last thing you want to use.

                          I'd agree here too - but note as "the last thing to use.."
                          I wouldn't say "never use it" - if you dont have access to the Turbos, or a decent wine yeast, etc, then bakers yeast will work, but as Mike points out, expect much lower alcohol, more fusels (and a real yeasty taste).It is a last resort, but it will work. I like adding it to my mollases rum for the flavour it adds. That stuff is never going to get above 7-8% alcohol, so no problems there.

                          Tony
                        • Bob Bourne
                          Hi Tony, Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket with a plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it? Cheers, Bob. ... a decent
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                            Hi Tony,

                            Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket with a
                            plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it?

                            Cheers,

                            Bob.

                            > No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes.
                            >
                            > >> Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the
                            > >> last thing you want to use.
                            >
                            > I'd agree here too - but note as "the last thing to use.."
                            > I wouldn't say "never use it" - if you dont have access to the Turbos, or
                            a decent wine yeast, etc, then bakers yeast will work, but as Mike points
                            out, expect much lower alcohol, more fusels (and a real yeasty taste).It is
                            a last resort, but it will work. I like adding it to my mollases rum for the
                            flavour it adds. That stuff is never going to get above 7-8% alcohol, so no
                            problems there.
                          • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                            ... I ve got a wash at present which has been sitting for about 1.5-2 months, just in the fermenter with an airlock. Just a matter of keeping it sealed so as
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                              > Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket with a
                              > plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it?

                              I've got a wash at present which has been sitting for about 1.5-2 months, just in the fermenter with an airlock. Just a matter of keeping it sealed so as not to lose the CO2 layer. So - depending on how good your rubber band seal is - maybe weeks, maybe months.

                              Tony
                            • Bob Bourne
                              OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know when it s off! Or useless? Bob. ... From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know when it's off! Or
                                useless?

                                Bob.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@...>
                                To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:20 AM
                                Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


                                >
                                > > Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket with a
                                > > plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it?
                                >
                                > I've got a wash at present which has been sitting for about 1.5-2 months,
                                just in the fermenter with an airlock. Just a matter of keeping it sealed
                                so as not to lose the CO2 layer. So - depending on how good your rubber
                                band seal is - maybe weeks, maybe months.
                                >
                                > Tony
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                              • Mike Nixon
                                Agree with Tony wholeheartedly! NEVER throw out booze!!!! Save it for friends you don t like :-)) Mike N ... From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) To:
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                  Agree with Tony wholeheartedly!  NEVER throw out booze!!!!
                                  Save it for friends you don't like :-))
                                   
                                  Mike N
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 10:05 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still

                                  > It was just an experiment anyway, I'll tip it out.

                                  No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes.

                                  >> Harley is absolutely right.  Bakers yeast is the 
                                  >> last thing you want to use.

                                  I'd agree here too - but note as "the last thing to use.."
                                  I wouldn't say "never use it" - if you dont have access to the Turbos, or a decent wine yeast, etc, then bakers yeast will work, but as Mike points out, expect much lower alcohol, more fusels (and a real yeasty taste).It is a last resort, but it will work. I like adding it to my mollases rum for the flavour it adds. That stuff is never going to get above 7-8% alcohol, so no problems there.

                                  Tony




                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com



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                                • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                                  ... the smell of vinegar
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                    > OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know
                                    > when it's off! Or useless?

                                    the smell of vinegar
                                  • Bob Bourne
                                    ... Thanks Tony. Now that is something to know! Cheers, Bob.
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                      > > OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know
                                      > > when it's off! Or useless?
                                      >
                                      > the smell of vinegar

                                      Thanks Tony. Now that is something to know!

                                      Cheers,

                                      Bob.
                                    • Bob Bourne
                                      Agree with Tony wholeheartedly! NEVER throw out booze!!!! Save it for friends you don t like :-)) Mike N Ha! I ll add that one to my other methods Mike!
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                        Agree with Tony wholeheartedly! NEVER throw out booze!!!!
                                        Save it for friends you don't like :-))

                                        Mike N

                                        Ha! I'll add that one to my other methods Mike!

                                        Cheers,

                                        B.
                                      • Harley Daschund
                                        Bob...I usually judge what works/dont work from my personal experience....what someone else experiences,without my knowing the specific details of the
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                          Bob...I usually judge what works/dont work from my personal
                                          experience....what someone else experiences,without my knowing the specific
                                          details of the procedure leading up to their results,has very little
                                          influence on my methods of doing 'whatever'...bottom line is..and this
                                          pertains to all...if it works for you/you are satisfied with the result,go
                                          with it...keep an open mind but,at the same time,dont let anyone tell you
                                          that you are wrong when you have satisfactory results...example...one fellow
                                          is well pleased with a Jack Daniels-like product...I,personally would rather
                                          drink 'stump-water' than that crap..but,thats JMPO......have fun and 'cop a
                                          buzz' occasionally...actually,I enjoy watching my friends 'consume' my
                                          'wares' almost as much as I enjoy consuming them myself...:>)






                                          >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                                          >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                          >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:59:00 +1000
                                          >
                                          >Evidently you are correct Harley, see Mike's email. I'll tip it out!
                                          >
                                          >Bob.
                                          >----- Original Message -----
                                          >From: "Harley Daschund" <harley_daschund@...>
                                          >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:00 AM
                                          >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > Since I dont own the publication you mentioned,I have to assume it
                                          > > contradicts my statement...if it works for you,go for it...I have had
                                          >very
                                          > > little success using anything other than a 'Turbo' yeast with sugar
                                          > > washs.....:>)
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                                          > > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                          > > >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:32:14 +1000
                                          > > >
                                          > > >Harley wrote:
                                          > > > > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water
                                          >with
                                          > > > > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?
                                          > > >
                                          > > >Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael Nixon,
                                          >page
                                          > > >36-7.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >In part -
                                          > > >"Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine [you]
                                          >will
                                          > > >find the fermentation of supermarket sugar with baker's yeast in
                                          >laundry
                                          > > >tub a rather simple and crude procedure. Don't be disconcerted by this.
                                          >All
                                          > > >we are doing at this stage is producing the alcohol we need."
                                          > > >
                                          > > >I used Lowan Instant Dried Yeast. It was very active. My problem was
                                          >trying
                                          > > >to work out what the hydrometer readings meant - a reading of 80-90
                                          >It's
                                          >a
                                          > > >Brewiser beer kit hydrometer.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >Bob Bourne.

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                                        • nanosleep
                                          If you are going to store the wash for some time, I d recommend racking it off of the yeast. Let the wash finish fermenting, let all the yeast settle to the
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                            If you are going to store the wash for some time, I'd
                                            recommend 'racking' it off of the yeast. Let the wash
                                            finish fermenting, let all the yeast settle to the bottom,
                                            then gently siphon the wash into a clean fermenter.
                                            Avoid contact with air. Try not to suck up any of the
                                            yeast gunk with the siphon. If left for a long time the
                                            yeast cells die and start to decompose. Not a problem other
                                            than it gives the wash a bad taste and smell.
                                            Doing a racking (or a few rackings) before distilling will
                                            help you get cleaner vodkas. I'm not sure if you *want*
                                            some of the yeast smell/tastes if you are doing whiskey/brandy
                                            or the like. I usually never have enough patience to do a
                                            proper racking. "Looks like it's done fermenting so RUN IT!!"

                                            -A

                                            --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bourne" <bourne@v...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know when it's
                                            off! Or
                                            > useless?
                                            >
                                            > Bob.
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@c...>
                                            > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:20 AM
                                            > Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > > > Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket
                                            with a
                                            > > > plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it?
                                            > >
                                            > > I've got a wash at present which has been sitting for about 1.5-2
                                            months,
                                            > just in the fermenter with an airlock. Just a matter of keeping it
                                            sealed
                                            > so as not to lose the CO2 layer. So - depending on how good your
                                            rubber
                                            > band seal is - maybe weeks, maybe months.
                                            > >
                                            > > Tony
                                            > >
                                          • Bob Bourne
                                            Harley ... yeah, I go along with all of that! Cheers, Bob. ... From: Harley Daschund To: Sent:
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                              Harley ... yeah, I go along with all of that!

                                              Cheers, Bob.

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "Harley Daschund" <harley_daschund@...>
                                              To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:57 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still


                                              > Bob...I usually judge what works/dont work from my personal
                                              > experience....what someone else experiences,without my knowing the
                                              specific
                                              > details of the procedure leading up to their results,has very little
                                              > influence on my methods of doing 'whatever'...bottom line is..and this
                                              > pertains to all...if it works for you/you are satisfied with the result,go
                                              > with it...keep an open mind but,at the same time,dont let anyone tell you
                                              > that you are wrong when you have satisfactory results...example...one
                                              fellow
                                              > is well pleased with a Jack Daniels-like product...I,personally would
                                              rather
                                              > drink 'stump-water' than that crap..but,thats JMPO......have fun and 'cop
                                              a
                                              > buzz' occasionally...actually,I enjoy watching my friends 'consume' my
                                              > 'wares' almost as much as I enjoy consuming them myself...:>)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                                              > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                              > >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:59:00 +1000
                                              > >
                                              > >Evidently you are correct Harley, see Mike's email. I'll tip it out!
                                              > >
                                              > >Bob.
                                              > >----- Original Message -----
                                              > >From: "Harley Daschund" <harley_daschund@...>
                                              > >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:00 AM
                                              > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > > Since I dont own the publication you mentioned,I have to assume it
                                              > > > contradicts my statement...if it works for you,go for it...I have had
                                              > >very
                                              > > > little success using anything other than a 'Turbo' yeast with sugar
                                              > > > washs.....:>)
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >From: "Bob Bourne" <bourne@...>
                                              > > > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                              > > > >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:32:14 +1000
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Harley wrote:
                                              > > > > > Bob...you are wasting your time trying to ferment sugar and water
                                              > >with
                                              > > > > > 'plain' yeast...what type yeast did you use?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Harley see: The Distillation of Alcohol, John Stone and Michael
                                              Nixon,
                                              > >page
                                              > > > >36-7.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >In part -
                                              > > > >"Those of you who are familiar with the making of beer and wine [you]
                                              > >will
                                              > > > >find the fermentation of supermarket sugar with baker's yeast in
                                              > >laundry
                                              > > > >tub a rather simple and crude procedure. Don't be disconcerted by
                                              this.
                                              > >All
                                              > > > >we are doing at this stage is producing the alcohol we need."
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >I used Lowan Instant Dried Yeast. It was very active. My problem was
                                              > >trying
                                              > > > >to work out what the hydrometer readings meant - a reading of 80-90
                                              > >It's
                                              > >a
                                              > > > >Brewiser beer kit hydrometer.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Bob Bourne.
                                              >
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                                            • nanosleep
                                              I don t pour out anything. I ll run it in the reflux still with an output of one drip per second if that s what it takes to squeeze out clean alcohol. But
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                                I don't pour out anything. I'll run it in the reflux still
                                                with an output of one drip per second if that's what it
                                                takes to squeeze out clean alcohol. But that's just
                                                what *I'd* do.

                                                -The cheap old bastard


                                                --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)"
                                                <Tony.Ackland@c...> wrote:
                                                > > It was just an experiment anyway, I'll tip it out.
                                                >
                                                > No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes.
                                                >
                                                > >> Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the
                                                > >> last thing you want to use.
                                                >
                                                > I'd agree here too - but note as "the last thing to use.."
                                                > I wouldn't say "never use it" - if you dont have access to the
                                                Turbos, or a decent wine yeast, etc, then bakers yeast will work, but
                                                as Mike points out, expect much lower alcohol, more fusels (and a real
                                                yeasty taste).It is a last resort, but it will work. I like adding it
                                                to my mollases rum for the flavour it adds. That stuff is never going
                                                to get above 7-8% alcohol, so no problems there.
                                                >
                                                > Tony
                                              • Bob Bourne
                                                I m a very cheap old bastard! Perhaps that s why I m still working on my reflux still ... Cheers, Bob. ... From: nanosleep To:
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                                  I'm a very cheap old bastard!

                                                  Perhaps that's why I'm still working on my reflux still ...

                                                  Cheers, Bob.
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@...>
                                                  To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:10 PM
                                                  Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mash confusion and bucket still


                                                  > I don't pour out anything. I'll run it in the reflux still
                                                  > with an output of one drip per second if that's what it
                                                  > takes to squeeze out clean alcohol. But that's just
                                                  > what *I'd* do.
                                                  >
                                                  > -The cheap old bastard
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)"
                                                  > <Tony.Ackland@c...> wrote:
                                                  > > > It was just an experiment anyway, I'll tip it out.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > No. Still give it a crack & see for yourself how it goes.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >> Harley is absolutely right. Bakers yeast is the
                                                  > > >> last thing you want to use.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I'd agree here too - but note as "the last thing to use.."
                                                  > > I wouldn't say "never use it" - if you dont have access to the
                                                  > Turbos, or a decent wine yeast, etc, then bakers yeast will work, but
                                                  > as Mike points out, expect much lower alcohol, more fusels (and a real
                                                  > yeasty taste).It is a last resort, but it will work. I like adding it
                                                  > to my mollases rum for the flavour it adds. That stuff is never going
                                                  > to get above 7-8% alcohol, so no problems there.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Tony
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                  > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Bob Bourne
                                                  -A, Yeah. I just wanted to fill in time while I wait for my reflux still to be finished. I had the sugar, I had the yeast. I was going to try a bucket still.
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                                    -A,

                                                    Yeah. I just wanted to fill in time while I wait for my reflux still to be
                                                    finished. I had the sugar, I had the yeast. I was going to try a bucket
                                                    still. Still may! (Pun intended!)

                                                    Still trying!

                                                    Bob.
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@...>
                                                    To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:05 PM
                                                    Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mash confusion and bucket still


                                                    > If you are going to store the wash for some time, I'd
                                                    > recommend 'racking' it off of the yeast. Let the wash
                                                    > finish fermenting, let all the yeast settle to the bottom,
                                                    > then gently siphon the wash into a clean fermenter.
                                                    > Avoid contact with air. Try not to suck up any of the
                                                    > yeast gunk with the siphon. If left for a long time the
                                                    > yeast cells die and start to decompose. Not a problem other
                                                    > than it gives the wash a bad taste and smell.
                                                    > Doing a racking (or a few rackings) before distilling will
                                                    > help you get cleaner vodkas. I'm not sure if you *want*
                                                    > some of the yeast smell/tastes if you are doing whiskey/brandy
                                                    > or the like. I usually never have enough patience to do a
                                                    > proper racking. "Looks like it's done fermenting so RUN IT!!"
                                                    >
                                                    > -A
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bourne" <bourne@v...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > > OK. Thanks. Maybe, I should have also asked, How do I know when it's
                                                    > off! Or
                                                    > > useless?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Bob.
                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > From: "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@c...>
                                                    > > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:20 AM
                                                    > > Subject: RE: [new_distillers] Mash confusion and bucket still
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > > Thanks for your mail. How long will this stuff keep in a bucket
                                                    > with a
                                                    > > > > plastic sheet over it and a rubber band to seal it?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I've got a wash at present which has been sitting for about 1.5-2
                                                    > months,
                                                    > > just in the fermenter with an airlock. Just a matter of keeping it
                                                    > sealed
                                                    > > so as not to lose the CO2 layer. So - depending on how good your
                                                    > rubber
                                                    > > band seal is - maybe weeks, maybe months.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Tony
                                                    > > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • CornFed (Randy)
                                                    dont toss it out and waste all of that good sugar!!! just go and get some yeast at a brewing shop or order some in. The sugar water will wait for you to
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                                      dont toss it out and waste all of that good sugar!!! just go and
                                                      get some yeast at a brewing shop or order some in. The sugar water
                                                      will wait for you to get the proper ingrediants

                                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bourne" <bourne@v...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert
                                                      spoons
                                                      > of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.
                                                      >
                                                      > I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content
                                                      and it's
                                                      > bobbing around the 80/90 mark.
                                                      >
                                                      > Is that what I should expect?
                                                      >
                                                      > Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.
                                                      >
                                                      > I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?
                                                      >
                                                      > Bob Bourne.
                                                    • Bob Bourne
                                                      Ah! Good idea! Thanks, I ll do that! Bob. ... From: CornFed (Randy) To: Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Mar 30, 2003
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                                                        Ah! Good idea! Thanks, I'll do that!

                                                        Bob.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "CornFed (Randy)" <cornfed15@...>
                                                        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 12:58 PM
                                                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mash confusion and bucket still


                                                        > dont toss it out and waste all of that good sugar!!! just go and
                                                        > get some yeast at a brewing shop or order some in. The sugar water
                                                        > will wait for you to get the proper ingrediants
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bourne" <bourne@v...>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > > I made a mash. 4kg sugar, about 20 litres water and 4 heaped desert
                                                        > spoons
                                                        > > of dry yeast. It's been sitting 2-3 days.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I've just used my (beer) hydrometer to measure the alcohol content
                                                        > and it's
                                                        > > bobbing around the 80/90 mark.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Is that what I should expect?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Isn't a mash supposed to be around 10/20 %.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I want to try using a simple bucket still. What can I expect to get?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Bob Bourne.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                      • nanosleep
                                                        I thought Bob had already pitched baker s yeast. Maybe I m mistaken. After the first day of pitching the baker s yeast, it ll probably be hard to get the
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Mar 31, 2003
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                                                          I thought Bob had already pitched baker's yeast.
                                                          Maybe I'm mistaken.
                                                          After the first day of pitching the baker's yeast,
                                                          it'll probably be hard to get the 'good' yeast to
                                                          overtake the baker's yeast. The baker's should
                                                          still produce some alcohol. It just won't be as
                                                          much or as clean as it could be when using a
                                                          brewer's/distiller's yeast.

                                                          -A

                                                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "CornFed (Randy)"
                                                          <cornfed15@h...> wrote:
                                                          > dont toss it out and waste all of that good sugar!!! just go and
                                                          > get some yeast at a brewing shop or order some in. The sugar
                                                          water
                                                          > will wait for you to get the proper ingrediants
                                                          >
                                                        • Bob Bourne
                                                          That s OK. I m chuck the shit! BB. ... From: nanosleep To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:57 AM
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , May 1, 2003
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                                                            That's OK. I'm chuck the shit!

                                                            BB.
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: "nanosleep" <nanosleep@...>
                                                            To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:57 AM
                                                            Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Mash confusion and bucket still


                                                            > I thought Bob had already pitched baker's yeast.
                                                            > Maybe I'm mistaken.
                                                            > After the first day of pitching the baker's yeast,
                                                            > it'll probably be hard to get the 'good' yeast to
                                                            > overtake the baker's yeast. The baker's should
                                                            > still produce some alcohol. It just won't be as
                                                            > much or as clean as it could be when using a
                                                            > brewer's/distiller's yeast.
                                                            >
                                                            > -A
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "CornFed (Randy)"
                                                            > <cornfed15@h...> wrote:
                                                            > > dont toss it out and waste all of that good sugar!!! just go and
                                                            > > get some yeast at a brewing shop or order some in. The sugar
                                                            > water
                                                            > > will wait for you to get the proper ingrediants
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                            >
                                                            >
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