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Still improvement question

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  • deno752002
    I ve given my new still a few more runs. I am finding it difficult if not impossible to get the still to run with the column head temperature below 90 degrees
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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      I've given my new still a few more runs. I am finding it difficult if
      not impossible to get the still to run with the column head
      temperature below 90 degrees C.

      On the last run it stayed at about 93 degrees pretty well the whole
      time untill the run was finished and I wound up with distilate at
      55% which matches Tony's graph for vapour alcohol content.

      I want to get the percentage in the distillate up a bit - more
      like an easily achievable 80% for which I would need a column head
      vapour temp of about the mid 80s. (Am I basiccally correct
      here??)

      At the moment my column is 2" by 2 feet high with scrubbers for 18
      inches in it. Would lengething the height of the column by 380mm (15
      inches) and adding another foot or so of scrubbers allow it to run
      with a cooler head vapour temp?

      If not I might just have to make an internal reflux coil for it after
      all.

      Any suggestions most welcome.

      There is a photo of the still in it's current form at;

      http://www.oldengine.org/members/dene/still.htm

      Thanks in advance
      Dene
      getctat the top of the column
    • pjmnc62
      Deno, After Looking at your still, it is my opinion that it is configured as a simple pot still. You did not provide a means for the condensate to return back
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Deno,
        After Looking at your still, it is my opinion that it is configured
        as a simple pot still. You did not provide a means for the condensate
        to return back down the column (reflux). Adding column height is not
        the best fix for this still, although additional column height might
        allow some vapour to condense and return (if uninsulated).

        The addition of a small internal cooling coil at the still head would
        be a good solution for you. You should design it so that the coolant
        can be controlled over a finely adjustable range of flows. You should
        be able to adjust from 0% reflux to 100% reflux. Very little cooling
        should provide the result that you desire, in my opinion.

        I would also add a little more column packing (nearly full) to
        provide more interaction between ascending and decending components.
        When starting, run at 100% reflux and allow the column to stabilize
        before collecting to achieve your best results.
        I hope this helps.
        PJ

        --- In new_distillers@y..., "deno752002" <waterline@o...> wrote:
        > I've given my new still a few more runs. I am finding it difficult
        > if not impossible to get the still to run with the column head
        > temperature below 90 degrees C.
        >
        > On the last run it stayed at about 93 degrees pretty well the whole
        > time untill the run was finished and I wound up with distilate at
        > 55% which matches Tony's graph for vapour alcohol content.
        >
        > I want to get the percentage in the distillate up a bit - more
        > like an easily achievable 80% for which I would need a column head
        > vapour temp of about the mid 80s. (Am I basiccally correct
        > here??)
        >
        > At the moment my column is 2" by 2 feet high with scrubbers for 18
        > inches in it. Would lengething the height of the column by 380mm
        > (15 inches) and adding another foot or so of scrubbers allow it to
        > run with a cooler head vapour temp?
        >
        > If not I might just have to make an internal reflux coil for it
        > after all.
        >
        > Any suggestions most welcome.
      • John Vandermeulen
        Hello deno, It sounds as if your column is behaving like a potstill set-up. But let s have some more information. 1) what is your wash, and what is the
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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          Hello deno,
          It sounds as if your column is behaving like a potstill set-up. But let's
          have some more information.
          1) what is your wash, and what is the potential alcohol content
          2) how big is your boiler; what and how much heat source
          3) Is the water line to the condenser the only source of cooling
          4) How long is the lyne arm; what sort of condenser
          5) You write that the column-temp. stays around 93oC. What is the behavior
          before it reaches that temp, does it simply climb without stopping anywhere?
          John V


          deno752002 wrote:

          > I've given my new still a few more runs. I am finding it difficult if
          > not impossible to get the still to run with the column head
          > temperature below 90 degrees C.
          >
          > On the last run it stayed at about 93 degrees pretty well the whole
          > time untill the run was finished and I wound up with distilate at
          > 55% which matches Tony's graph for vapour alcohol content.
          >
          > I want to get the percentage in the distillate up a bit - more
          > like an easily achievable 80% for which I would need a column head
          > vapour temp of about the mid 80s. (Am I basiccally correct
          > here??)
          >
          > At the moment my column is 2" by 2 feet high with scrubbers for 18
          > inches in it. Would lengething the height of the column by 380mm (15
          > inches) and adding another foot or so of scrubbers allow it to run
          > with a cooler head vapour temp?
          >
          > If not I might just have to make an internal reflux coil for it after
          > all.
          >
          > Any suggestions most welcome.
          >
          > There is a photo of the still in it's current form at;
          >
          > http://www.oldengine.org/members/dene/still.htm
          >
          > Thanks in advance
          > Dene
          > getctat the top of the column
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
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        • deno752002
          ... In the last run it when it sat at 93 it was a 10% alcohol and water mix. Basically the alcohol that I d distilled from previous runs re-diluted. ...
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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            > 1) what is your wash, and what is the potential alcohol content

            In the last run it when it sat at 93 it was a 10% alcohol and water
            mix. Basically the alcohol that I'd distilled from previous runs
            re-diluted.

            > 2) how big is your boiler; what and how much heat source

            Boiler is just under 5 litres and the heat source is capable of 1350
            watts although I run it at a lot less than that after it has
            initially warmed up

            > 3) Is the water line to the condenser the only source of cooling

            Yes. There is no cooling coil in the top of the column and the hose
            into the condenser is the only source of condenser cooling. On the
            last run I had added a bag of ice to the condenser water as well to
            get it really cool.

            > 4) How long is the lyne arm; what sort of condenser

            The condenser is just a coil (5 metres or so) in a drum. Lyne
            arm is about 8 inches long. The two are connected with a foot or so
            of food grade plastic hose. Once the technicalities of the still are
            worked out and it's all working properly I'll do away with the plastic
            and make something out of copper.

            > 5) You write that the column-temp. stays around 93oC. What
            > is the behavior before it reaches that temp, does it
            > simply climb without stopping anywhere?

            Pretty much. It sits at about 24 degrees (ambient) then once the
            boiler gets up to the mid nineties, the head temp takes a fairly
            sudden rise to the low nineties. I've been getting the boiler temp to
            sit around 94 for ten minutes or so (to let the column warm up slowly)
            and then slowly creeping the boiler temp up to about 96 or 7 for the
            run and holding it around there.

            Thanks

            Dene
            > > There is a photo of the still in it's current form at;
            > >
            > > http://www.oldengine.org/members/dene/still.htm
          • homedistiller
            Hi Dene, Just some loose ideas... Improvements that you could apply instantly: Fill the column entirely with scrubbers, loose enough. It will give you
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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              Hi Dene,

              Just some loose ideas...

              Improvements that you could apply instantly:

              Fill the column entirely with scrubbers, loose enough. It will give
              you instantly a virtually longer column.

              Don't insulate the top part of the column. It's a dirty trick really
              but it will probably provide you some hard-needed reflux. More reflux
              will give you higher purity. Remember, it will also take more time
              because reflux means: you are redistilling.

              Don't try to control the boiling temperature of the wash. This is
              impossible, it's a basic law of physics. All one can do is monitor
              it. It can tell you how much alcohol is left in the wash. As the
              ethanol is getting distilled out of the wash, the boiling point will
              rise.

              Only provide the amount of heat necessary to keep the wash slowly
              boiling and so that enough vapour keeps your column happy, so to
              speak. This should be visible when you monitor lower vapour
              temperatures at the top of your column. Closer you can come to the 78
              degrees Celcius, higher the purity will be.

              Greetings,
              Dirk




              --- In new_distillers@y..., "deno752002" <waterline@o...> wrote:
              > I've given my new still a few more runs. I am finding it difficult
              if
              > not impossible to get the still to run with the column head
              > temperature below 90 degrees C.
              >
              > On the last run it stayed at about 93 degrees pretty well the whole
              > time untill the run was finished and I wound up with distilate at
              > 55% which matches Tony's graph for vapour alcohol content.
              >
              > I want to get the percentage in the distillate up a bit - more
              > like an easily achievable 80% for which I would need a column head
              > vapour temp of about the mid 80s. (Am I basiccally correct
              > here??)
              >
              > At the moment my column is 2" by 2 feet high with scrubbers for 18
              > inches in it. Would lengething the height of the column by 380mm
              (15
              > inches) and adding another foot or so of scrubbers allow it to run
              > with a cooler head vapour temp?
              >
              > If not I might just have to make an internal reflux coil for it
              after
              > all.
              >
              > Any suggestions most welcome.
              >
              > There is a photo of the still in it's current form at;
              >
              > http://www.oldengine.org/members/dene/still.htm
              >
              > Thanks in advance
              > Dene
              > getctat the top of the column
            • Dene Oehme
              ... Thanks Dirk - Giving it all a try now. Will let you know how it goes. I ve also lengthened my column to just under 1 metre. Dene
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 1, 2002
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                > Hi Dene,
                > Just some loose ideas...
                > Fill the column entirely with scrubbers,
                > Don't insulate the top part of the column.
                > Don't try to control the boiling temperature of the wash.

                Thanks Dirk - Giving it all a try now. Will let you know how it goes.
                I've also lengthened my column to just under 1 metre.

                Dene
              • Dene Oehme
                ... Ok.....New Question...... I ve just run the still with the improvements Dirk suggested and the longer fully packed column. It ran with a head temp at
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                  --- In new_distillers@y..., "Dene Oehme" <waterline@o...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Dene,
                  > > Just some loose ideas...
                  > > Fill the column entirely with scrubbers,
                  > > Don't insulate the top part of the column.
                  > > Don't try to control the boiling temperature of the wash.
                  >
                  > Thanks Dirk - Giving it all a try now. Will let you know
                  > how it goes. I've also lengthened my column to just
                  > under 1 metre.

                  Ok.....New Question...... I've just run the still with the
                  improvements Dirk suggested and the longer fully packed column. It
                  ran with a head temp at around 79 - 80oC for most of the run,
                  increasing gradually towards the end but never over 88 or so. How
                  come I still got a distilate of only 50% average?

                  I was measuring alcohol percentage every 60 mils or so and the best
                  was the first at just under 80%. The rest were lower, dropping
                  proportionally throughout the run even though the head temp was still
                  around 80 degrees for most of the run. I thought with the head temp
                  around there I should be looking at about 90%. What am I not
                  understanding correctly??

                  Thanks in advance

                  Confused.
                • Dene Oehme
                  ... Makes sense but what about the pressure build up in the boiler and column? This thing is by no means a pressure vessel and would quickly come apart at
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                    > If you cut off the amount you take off you force it
                    > back down the reflux column allowing it to redistillate
                    > and hence become more pure.

                    Makes sense but what about the pressure build up in the boiler and
                    column? This thing is by no means a "pressure vessel" and would
                    quickly come apart at the seams even under relatively low pressure.

                    Dene
                  • Brian Rowe
                    In my very limited experience looking at the pic of your still you have no control over the amount of distillate that you are taking off. I d say you need some
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                      In my very limited experience looking at the pic of your still you have no
                      control over the amount of distillate that you are taking off.
                      I'd say you need some way of controlling how much you take off. The most
                      basic is a ball valve but its pretty hit and miss. With a needle valve you
                      get more accuracy.
                      If you cut off the amount you take off you force it back down the reflux
                      column allowing it to redistillate and hence become more pure. You should
                      also find that as the % becomes higher the head temp will drop. If you
                      restrict output entirely allowing total reflux the the head temp should
                      settle at a temp about 78 - 78.5.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Dene Oehme" <waterline@...>
                      To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:12 PM
                      Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Still improvement question


                      > --- In new_distillers@y..., "Dene Oehme" <waterline@o...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Hi Dene,
                      > > > Just some loose ideas...
                      > > > Fill the column entirely with scrubbers,
                      > > > Don't insulate the top part of the column.
                      > > > Don't try to control the boiling temperature of the wash.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Dirk - Giving it all a try now. Will let you know
                      > > how it goes. I've also lengthened my column to just
                      > > under 1 metre.
                      >
                      > Ok.....New Question...... I've just run the still with the
                      > improvements Dirk suggested and the longer fully packed column. It
                      > ran with a head temp at around 79 - 80oC for most of the run,
                      > increasing gradually towards the end but never over 88 or so. How
                      > come I still got a distilate of only 50% average?
                      >
                      > I was measuring alcohol percentage every 60 mils or so and the best
                      > was the first at just under 80%. The rest were lower, dropping
                      > proportionally throughout the run even though the head temp was still
                      > around 80 degrees for most of the run. I thought with the head temp
                      > around there I should be looking at about 90%. What am I not
                      > understanding correctly??
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance
                      >
                      > Confused.
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                    • Brian Rowe
                      Good point !!! Thank god you didn t follow my advice. Ok more lateral thinking needed. ... From: Dene Oehme To:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                        Good point !!!
                        Thank god you didn't follow my advice.
                        Ok more lateral thinking needed.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Dene Oehme" <waterline@...>
                        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:58 PM
                        Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Still improvement question


                        >
                        > > If you cut off the amount you take off you force it
                        > > back down the reflux column allowing it to redistillate
                        > > and hence become more pure.
                        >
                        > Makes sense but what about the pressure build up in the boiler and
                        > column? This thing is by no means a "pressure vessel" and would
                        > quickly come apart at the seams even under relatively low pressure.
                        >
                        > Dene
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > ADVERTISEMENT
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                        >
                        >
                      • peter_vcb
                        only 50%?? are you sure of this. try putting your alcoholometer in some water to see if it is reading ok, then try it in some commercial spirits (without
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                          only 50%?? are you sure of this. try putting your alcoholometer in
                          some water to see if it is reading ok, then try it in some commercial
                          spirits (without sugar). does it taste like 50%. my old column was
                          only 680mm packed and i easily got 92% from it (with reflux). how
                          many ml/min are you collecting at. with a 1m column and a variable
                          power contol you should be in the 90's even with no forced reflux. if
                          you turn down the power enough the vapour will travel slowly up the
                          column leading to more time for separation and if the power is low
                          enough it will have sufficient internal reflux for a pure distillate.
                          try aiming for about 10 or 20ml/min i.e. about 1 or 2 700ml bottles
                          per hour. you mention diluting distillate back down to 10% leaving it
                          strong will obviously give you a stonger output, the main reason for
                          diluting back down is just to ensure your elements will still be
                          covered in liquid when you are coming near the end of a run, you have
                          no reason to dilute it back down since you have no elements. try
                          blowing through your column to see if it is packed too tightly. also
                          how are you measuring the percentage of such small amounts?




                          --- In new_distillers@y..., "Dene Oehme" <waterline@o...> wrote:
                          > --- In new_distillers@y..., "Dene Oehme" <waterline@o...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Hi Dene,
                          > > > Just some loose ideas...
                          > > > Fill the column entirely with scrubbers,
                          > > > Don't insulate the top part of the column.
                          > > > Don't try to control the boiling temperature of the wash.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks Dirk - Giving it all a try now. Will let you know
                          > > how it goes. I've also lengthened my column to just
                          > > under 1 metre.
                          >
                          > Ok.....New Question...... I've just run the still with the
                          > improvements Dirk suggested and the longer fully packed column. It
                          > ran with a head temp at around 79 - 80oC for most of the run,
                          > increasing gradually towards the end but never over 88 or so. How
                          > come I still got a distilate of only 50% average?
                          >
                          > I was measuring alcohol percentage every 60 mils or so and the best
                          > was the first at just under 80%. The rest were lower, dropping
                          > proportionally throughout the run even though the head temp was
                          still
                          > around 80 degrees for most of the run. I thought with the head
                          temp
                          > around there I should be looking at about 90%. What am I not
                          > understanding correctly??
                          >
                          > Thanks in advance
                          >
                          > Confused.
                        • homedistiller
                          Dene, How much distillate did you collect ? You have a very small boiler. A 4 liter wash at 10% will give you only 0.4 liter 80% (= what you measured). And for
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                            Dene,

                            How much distillate did you collect ?
                            You have a very small boiler. A 4 liter wash at 10% will give you
                            only 0.4 liter 80% (= what you measured). And for you, this is a
                            theoretical, since there isn't much to control the reflux in your
                            column. Towards the end of the distillation you need much increased
                            reflux to get some purity. As Peter advises, trim the heat input to
                            the very minimum when you have a boil. This will give the highest
                            natural reflux possible with your set-up. And indeed when you
                            redistill,there is no need to dilute the distillate: it makes you
                            just run in circles.

                            See also Tony's site:
                            http://homedistiller.org/dtw.htm#collect
                            http://homedistiller.org/theory.htm#strong

                            Greetings,
                            Dirk

                            > Ok.....New Question...... I've just run the still with the
                            > improvements Dirk suggested and the longer fully packed column. It
                            > ran with a head temp at around 79 - 80oC for most of the run,
                            > increasing gradually towards the end but never over 88 or so. How
                            > come I still got a distilate of only 50% average?
                            >
                            > I was measuring alcohol percentage every 60 mils or so and the best
                            > was the first at just under 80%. The rest were lower, dropping
                            > proportionally throughout the run even though the head temp was
                            still
                            > around 80 degrees for most of the run. I thought with the head
                            temp
                            > around there I should be looking at about 90%. What am I not
                            > understanding correctly??
                            >
                            > Thanks in advance
                            >
                            > Confused.
                          • Dene Oehme
                            Thanks for the response Peter, Alcometer reads zero in water - heven t got anything to check the top end with. With my limited experience it does taste like
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                              Thanks for the response Peter,

                              Alcometer reads zero in water - heven't got anything to check the top
                              end with. With my limited experience it does taste like 50%

                              > if the power is low enough it will have sufficient
                              > internal reflux for a pure distillate.

                              That's what I was hoping.

                              I'm collecting at under 10ml/minute. Haven't worked it out exactly.

                              The main reason I diluted my already collected alcohol down to 10%
                              for these test runs is becasue I'm guessing that's about the strength
                              of wash I'll be using once I distill some real stuff. Basically I
                              wanted the still to run as close to what it will with a real wash.

                              > try blowing through your column to see if it is packed
                              > too tightly.

                              I do that each time I assemble the column and it's always flowed fine.

                              > how are you measuring the percentage of such small amounts?

                              I put the alcometer in a test tube, hold the test tube under the
                              condenser outlet with a magic arm, once I collect enough to get a
                              reading I note it and tip the contents of the test tube into a jar
                              then start refilling the test tube again. Time consuming and tedious
                              but accurate I suspect.
                            • Dene Oehme
                              Thanks again Dirk, ... About 400ml at an average of 50%. I could have gone longer and got more out of it but when it got to producing at about 15%, I stopped
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                                Thanks again Dirk,

                                > How much distillate did you collect ?

                                About 400ml at an average of 50%. I could have gone longer and got
                                more out of it but when it got to producing at about 15%, I stopped it
                                for the day.

                                > And indeed when you redistill,there is no need to dilute the
                                > distillate: it makes you just run in circles.

                                Yea, I realise that in the real world, if I'm after best product, I
                                wouldn't do that but as I explained to Peter, I'm assuming that when I
                                do a run with a real wash I'll be starting with something at about 10%
                                so I wanted to simulate that situation.

                                > http://homedistiller.org/theory.htm#strong

                                I've been going by that graph for my assumptions regarding strength.
                                That's why I raised the question earlier about why with a head temp of
                                80 degrees am I still only getting 50% alcohol output.

                                Regards

                                Dene
                              • peter_vcb
                                the theory and temps you say all add up to you having good distillate especially running under 10ml/min even with no forced reflux it should be better. does
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                                  the theory and temps you say all add up to you having good distillate
                                  especially running under 10ml/min even with no forced reflux it
                                  should be better. does the distillate taste nice? what is its smell
                                  like?

                                  more technical stuff to check.
                                  1 is the thermometer accurate? try it in boiling water.
                                  2 is the probe reading temperature in the right place in the column?
                                  it should be ideally placed right where the take off tube is.
                                  3 does the probe need a certain portion to be covered? many glass and
                                  digital thermometers need a certain lenght to be exposed to the
                                  temperature. many digital probes have their devices 1/3 the way up.
                                  this can be checked by putting the tip in boiling water to see if you
                                  get 100c
                                  4 is there a possible hole in your condenser side letting water
                                  trickle into your distillate. this can easily happen and is hard to
                                  spot with a worm type condenser like yours. at such low take offs it
                                  will add up even if it is just a few drops. try removing the worm
                                  from the barrel, turn the still upside down and try to fill it
                                  entirely with water to spot any leaks, plug up the outlet.
                                  another way to check would be to accurately measure 1 litre of water
                                  and distill it until the still is totally dry, then simply measure
                                  what came out and see if it is over a litre



                                  --- In new_distillers@y..., "Dene Oehme" <waterline@o...> wrote:
                                  > Thanks again Dirk,
                                  >
                                  > > How much distillate did you collect ?
                                  >
                                  > About 400ml at an average of 50%. I could have gone longer and got
                                  > more out of it but when it got to producing at about 15%, I stopped
                                  it
                                  > for the day.
                                  >
                                  > > And indeed when you redistill,there is no need to dilute the
                                  > > distillate: it makes you just run in circles.
                                  >
                                  > Yea, I realise that in the real world, if I'm after best product, I
                                  > wouldn't do that but as I explained to Peter, I'm assuming that
                                  when I
                                  > do a run with a real wash I'll be starting with something at about
                                  10%
                                  > so I wanted to simulate that situation.
                                  >
                                  > > http://homedistiller.org/theory.htm#strong
                                  >
                                  > I've been going by that graph for my assumptions regarding
                                  strength.
                                  > That's why I raised the question earlier about why with a head temp
                                  of
                                  > 80 degrees am I still only getting 50% alcohol output.
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  >
                                  > Dene
                                • John Vandermeulen
                                  1) Alcoholmeter - you can check higher alcohol ranges by dropping the alcoholmeter into a bottle of wine, and into a bottle of vodka. The latter should give
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
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                                    1) Alcoholmeter - you can check higher alcohol ranges by dropping the
                                    alcoholmeter into a bottle of wine, and into a bottle of vodka. The latter
                                    should give you a credible reading for 42%abv.
                                    2) Leaky condenser - that suggestion is a good one. Try turning on the
                                    condenser water lines, without any heat. Can you isolate the condenser? And
                                    watch for water coming from the drain spout. (Which it should not.)
                                    John
                                  • BOKAKOB
                                    It appears that your heat power is too high. try running the still with a spacers between the hot plate and the pot. you may want to use machine nuts. if it
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 2, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      It appears that your heat power is too high. try running the still with a spacers between the hot plate and the pot. you may want to use machine nuts. if it works out then you will have to think how to control input power for your heating element. i am so happy i use natural gas.

                                       deno752002 <waterline@...> wrote:

                                      I've given my new still a few more runs.  I am finding it difficult if
                                      not impossible to get the still to run with the column head
                                      temperature below 90 degrees C. 

                                      On the last run it stayed at about 93 degrees pretty well the whole
                                      time untill the run was finished and I wound up with distilate at
                                      55% which matches Tony's graph for vapour alcohol content. 

                                      I want to get the percentage in the distillate up a bit - more
                                      like an easily achievable 80% for which I would need a column head
                                      vapour temp of about the mid 80s.  (Am I basiccally correct
                                      here??) 

                                      At the moment my column is 2" by 2 feet high with scrubbers for 18
                                      inches in it.  Would lengething the height of the column by 380mm (15
                                      inches) and adding another foot or so of scrubbers allow it to run
                                      with a cooler head vapour temp?

                                      If not I might just have to make an internal reflux coil for it after
                                      all. 

                                      Any suggestions most welcome.

                                      There is a photo of the still in it's current form at;

                                      http://www.oldengine.org/members/dene/still.htm

                                      Thanks in advance
                                      Dene
                                      getctat the top of the column



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                                      I can be wrong I must say.
                                      Cheers, Alex...



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