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Re: [new_distillers] Filtering

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  • Mike Nixon
    James Bain wrote: Subject: [new_distillers] Filtering Hi James. Okay, I know that a thousand threads have started on this topic, but I haven t heard any
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 5, 2002
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      James Bain wrote:
      Subject: [new_distillers] Filtering

      Hi James.

      Okay, I know that a thousand threads have started on this topic, but I haven't heard any convincing arguments yet.
      So let's see if you can get some now.  I'll try to keep the answers brief as there are an awful lot of questions!   Please do not interpret this as being dismissive.  It is not.

      How and when to filter.

      First question:

      Is there >any< reason not to filter the wash before distilling?
      There is no overriding reason to either filter or not before distilling, but very good reasons why you should first do a quick strip run to get a liquid free of all solids and to start out a main run with a solid-free mix that has all the volatiles concentrated in it.

      I am using a pot still with sugar wash (too lazy/busy/cash-strapped presently to go reflux yet) and it seems that if what I want to get rid of is all the smelly junk in my near-rum to make it into a neutral spirit, I could just take this out first, right?
      "Just" take it out?  I wish it were that simple!

      At 20%, running it through a commercial active carbon filter, one normally used for under sink water filtration, would work, right? Or even one of those carafe systems like the Brita's or whatever. Could even use the ceramic prefilter to get rid of the remaining yeasties.

      Then, if you paid careful attention to your cuts, you'd have a pretty good middle slice of neutral spirits, right?
      Sorry ... that is an attractive idea, but wrong.  The sheer quantity of volatiles would quickly saturate the carbon before you even scratched the surface.  Carbon is for getting rid of small amounts, not bulk.  Also, if I read you right, you propose running a raw fermented wash through the carbon and try to use it as a filter to get rid of the yeast.  Sorry ... granulated carbon makes a lousy filter, and even good filters have a hard time catching all the yeast ... some of which are really tiny.

      Second Question;

      Why not filter then after first still run, at the ca 50-60% range? Or even higher?

      It's just the water soluble gunk we'd be after, right? take off the heads and tails and you'd have no ethyl acetate or otherwise.
      All the 'gunk' is soluble, including ethanol.  Taking off the heads and tails is exactly what most people do ... after first stripping and then re-distilling.  In any event, if you have done a first run (to get around 40%)  then you will have left behind all the solids.

      All the talk about dissolved minerals in the carbon makes some sense, but then why would it leach out into alcohol where it wouldn't in water?
      Alcohol is a very good dissolver of all sorts of substances ... better than water with hydrocarbons.  The minerals in new carbon (if they are there) are all soluble in water and can be removed by simple washing.

      Is the 40% given for filtration just because most people are going to drink it at that percentage?
      40% is recommended for carbon treatment (which is not filtration) because water content has been proven to be beneficial in carbon treatment.  There are reasons, but they would be tedious to list here.  Call me if you want them.

      I'd love to store and age some of this and cask-strength is normally up near 65% right? If I have to take it down to 40%, filter it, then distill it again to take it up to that and beyond, well, it's a time waster, right?
      Not sure what you are trying to achieve.  If you are aging spirits in a cask (oak?) then you are aiming to mature the congeners that provide flavor.  If you are after straight vodka, aging is a certainly a waste of time.  Also, why would you want to filter a liquid that is already free of solids?

      Using similar commercial active carbon cannister to what I would use above (they're only like 10$ or so each and are rated to filter drinking water off of one tap for about a year--would even be adaptable to the neat "Updraft" Carbon filter system I saw detailed on the Distiller's list), could I then just filter this first run?
      No.

      There's always the plastic and alcohol thing i suppose, but this all seems to be PVC.
      Not understood, unless you mean tainting that many plastics can induce.  Many plastics contain fillers that are leached out by alcohol.  They do not taste nice!

      So, the questions reduce to performance of the carbon and plastic and dissolved nasties in the alcohol.
      Cannot comment, for reason given above.

      Does any one have some definitive answers along these lines?

      Please?

      Thanks in advance,

      James.
      The bottom line of all your questions seems to be based in the notion that carbon can be used early in the process to save time later.  This is not a silly notion, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  We have recently had posts suggesting packing columns with carbon in order to achieve this, and full marks for thinking outside the square.  Sadly, I'm sorry to say that Nature has certain rules and we cannot change them.  Carbon is very good at cleaning small concentrations of nasties from liquids, but is not much good in other applications.  Having said that, please carry on thinking outside that square.  It's one of the most useful things that can be done, as how on earth do new inventions or discoveries get made?

      Mike N

       

    • peter_vcb
      there are home brew liquer kits which i used to make. you brew sugar water over 5 weeks up to 22%. add finings to clear it crystal clear, then you add charcoal
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 6, 2002
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        there are home brew liquer kits which i used to make. you brew sugar
        water over 5 weeks up to 22%. add finings to clear it crystal clear,
        then you add charcoal and let it settle for a week. decant it off and
        it was mixed with flavorings. they were very nice and almost
        flavourless when first taken off the carbon.

        if i was using a 25litre 20% sugar wash using a potstill i would let
        it clear for a few days to get it pretty clear. then distill once to
        strip it of solids, collecting everything in the same container,
        should be about 12l@40%. then do a second distillation (without
        dilution) ditching the first 100-150ml as foreshots. collect the next
        litre as heads separately. collect the next 6litres as my main run
        and collect the last litre as tails in the same bottle as the heads.
        i would then dilute the 6 litres down to 25-30% and charcoal it for a
        month or more. i would then decant it off the charcoal and redistill
        it collecting every drop as drinkable charcoal free vodka of a high
        strength with no need to dilute it.

        i find redistilling charcoaled vodka to be faster than filtering the
        charcoal out (and it definitely gets rid of ALL carbon), i find the
        charcoal works better at lower percentages, you can dilute it a lot
        since the redistillation will boost the strength again anyway.


        --- In new_distillers@y..., James Bain <orgulasmaggot@y...> wrote:
        > Okay, I know that a thousand threads have started on
        > this topic, but I haven't heard any convincing
        > arguments yet.
        >
        > How and when to filter.
        >
        > First question:
        >
        > Is there >any< reason not to filter the wash before
        > distilling?
        >
        > I am using a pot still with sugar wash (too
        > lazy/busy/cash-strapped presently to go reflux yet)
        > and it seems that if what I want to get rid of is all
        > the smelly junk in my near-rum to make it into a
        > neutral spirit, I could just take this out first,
        > right?
        >
        > At 20%, running it through a commercial active carbon
        > filter, one normally used for under sink water
        > filtration, would work, right? Or even one of those
        > carafe systems like the Brita's or whatever. Could
        > even use the ceramic prefilter to get rid of the
        > remaining yeasties.
        >
        > Then, if you paid careful attention to your cuts,
        > you'd have a pretty good middle slice of neutral
        > spirits, right?
        >
        >
        > Second Question;
        >
        > Why not filter then after first still run, at the ca
        > 50-60% range? Or even higher?
        >
        > It's just the water soluble gunk we'd be after, right?
        > take off the heads and tails and you'd have no ethyl
        > acetate or otherwise.
        >
        > All the talk about dissolved minerals in the carbon
        > makes some sense, but then why would it leach out into
        > alcohol where it wouldn't in water?
        >
        > Is the 40% given for filtration just because most
        > people are going to drink it at that percentage?
        >
        > I'd love to store and age some of this and
        > cask-strength is normally up near 65% right? If I have
        > to take it down to 40%, filter it, then distill it
        > again to take it up to that and beyond, well, it's a
        > time waster, right?
        >
        > Using similar commercial active carbon cannister to
        > what I would use above (they're only like 10$ or so
        > each and are rated to filter drinking water off of one
        > tap for about a year--would even be adaptable to the
        > neat "Updraft" Carbon filter system I saw detailed on
        > the Distiller's list), could I then just filter this
        > first run?
        >
        > There's always the plastic and alcohol thing i
        > suppose, but this all seems to be PVC.
        >
        >
        > So, the questions reduce to performance of the carbon
        > and plastic and dissolved nasties in the alcohol.
        >
        > Does any one have some definitive answers along these
        > lines?
        >
        > Please?
        >
        > Thanks in advance,
        >
        > James.
      • Carter N/A
        I ve decided not to go with the tube filled with activated carbon, I think it just will be too much of a PIA. I need the 93% so I can make absinthe and I don t
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 6, 2005
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          I've decided not to go with the tube filled with activated carbon, I think
          it just will be too much of a PIA. I need the 93% so I can make absinthe and
          I don't want to water down the mix, I will at least need to cut it down to
          85%. Anyway, I've got 4 liters of neutral alcohol from wine and according to
          the "compleat distiller" they've had good results with just adding carbon to
          the alcohol and letting it sit for a week. I used about 2 1/2 pounds of
          carbon to 2 liters of alcohol. Has anyone had any experience with this. My
          questions are this, from what I know, just shake it about 4 times a day to
          circulate it and then after a week your done? The important thing is what
          kind of setups are people using to filter off the alcohol once they're done
          filtering? Have any of you built a paper filter to pass it through to remove
          the miniscule particles left by the carbon? Any design ideas? Or should I
          just use a very very fine sieve? IF so where can I get one, I've looked but
          all household sieves look the same, I've got a fine one at home already and
          some of the carbon passes right through it. Any help would be great. Thanks
        • Robert N
          Try a couple of cotton balls in the funnel with say a coffee filter paper above to catch the large carbon particles. Yours in Spirit Robert _____ From:
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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            Try a couple of cotton balls in the funnel with say a coffee filter paper
            above to catch the large carbon particles.



            Yours in Spirit

            Robert



            _____

            From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Carter N/A
            Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 3:04 PM
            To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [new_distillers] Filtering



            I've decided not to go with the tube filled with activated carbon, I think
            it just will be too much of a PIA. I need the 93% so I can make absinthe and

            I don't want to water down the mix, I will at least need to cut it down to
            85%. Anyway, I've got 4 liters of neutral alcohol from wine and according to

            the "compleat distiller" they've had good results with just adding carbon to

            the alcohol and letting it sit for a week. I used about 2 1/2 pounds of
            carbon to 2 liters of alcohol. Has anyone had any experience with this. My
            questions are this, from what I know, just shake it about 4 times a day to
            circulate it and then after a week your done? The important thing is what
            kind of setups are people using to filter off the alcohol once they're done
            filtering? Have any of you built a paper filter to pass it through to remove

            the miniscule particles left by the carbon? Any design ideas? Or should I
            just use a very very fine sieve? IF so where can I get one, I've looked but
            all household sieves look the same, I've got a fine one at home already and
            some of the carbon passes right through it. Any help would be great. Thanks





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Roderick Holmes
            2.5 lbs for 2 liters sound like a lot. I only use about 3 tablespoons per liter when I do mine. Part of the problem of using so much carbon is that the carbon
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 7, 2005
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              2.5 lbs for 2 liters sound like a lot. I only use about 3 tablespoons per liter when I do mine. Part of the problem of using so much carbon is that the carbon will hold a bit of your distillate. Your 2 liters may end up 1.8 L with the carbon holding the other .2L.

              Roderick

              Robert N <dinks_c@...> wrote:
              Try a couple of cotton balls in the funnel with say a coffee filter paper
              above to catch the large carbon particles.



              Yours in Spirit

              Robert



              _____

              From: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:new_distillers@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Carter N/A
              Sent: Monday, 7 November 2005 3:04 PM
              To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [new_distillers] Filtering



              I've decided not to go with the tube filled with activated carbon, I think
              it just will be too much of a PIA. I need the 93% so I can make absinthe and

              I don't want to water down the mix, I will at least need to cut it down to
              85%. Anyway, I've got 4 liters of neutral alcohol from wine and according to

              the "compleat distiller" they've had good results with just adding carbon to

              the alcohol and letting it sit for a week. I used about 2 1/2 pounds of
              carbon to 2 liters of alcohol. Has anyone had any experience with this. My
              questions are this, from what I know, just shake it about 4 times a day to
              circulate it and then after a week your done? The important thing is what
              kind of setups are people using to filter off the alcohol once they're done
              filtering? Have any of you built a paper filter to pass it through to remove

              the miniscule particles left by the carbon? Any design ideas? Or should I
              just use a very very fine sieve? IF so where can I get one, I've looked but
              all household sieves look the same, I've got a fine one at home already and
              some of the carbon passes right through it. Any help would be great. Thanks





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rod
              if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ???? i only carbon under 80% you wont be able to tell the difference unless you collect the tails as well and mix
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 9, 2005
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                if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ????
                i only carbon under 80%
                you wont be able to tell the difference
                unless you collect the tails as well and mix them with ya good stuff!
              • Ian Kent
                I get 92% and don t use carbon. To me it s not worth the effort ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 9, 2005
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                  I get 92% and don't use carbon.
                  To me it's not worth the effort

                  On 11/9/05, Rod <bull910@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ????
                  > i only carbon under 80%
                  > you wont be able to tell the difference
                  > unless you collect the tails as well and mix them with ya good stuff!
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wes
                  ... stuff! ... I have followed the thread on filtering for a few weeks and have been unsure if i have been missing out on something. I am pretty harsh with the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 9, 2005
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                    --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ian Kent <kegscruiser@g...>
                    wrote:

                    >
                    > I get 92% and don't use carbon.
                    > To me it's not worth the effort
                    >
                    > On 11/9/05, Rod <bull910@h...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ????
                    > > i only carbon under 80%
                    > > you wont be able to tell the difference
                    > > unless you collect the tails as well and mix them with ya good
                    stuff!
                    > >
                    > >
                    I have followed the thread on filtering for a few weeks and have
                    been unsure if i have been missing out on something.
                    I am pretty harsh with the cuts and the end product has been quite
                    acceptable from a 1200mm reflux still putting out consistantly high
                    95% hootch.
                    I made a filter from a 100mm sewage pipe about a metre long that I
                    used as a waterproof container for flares and stuff that i wanted to
                    keep dry in a boat.(no shit)
                    I cut a hole in the bottom and put a 40mm adapter in that accepts a
                    bung from a fermenter. I pushed a copper pipe that a tampon fits
                    inside halfway in on the inside and a tap in the other end of the
                    bung.
                    Put 500g of carbon inside and run 9 litres of 40% through it. It
                    took a couple of days to drip through and the end result.............
                    it does make a differance, my wife is impressed and brother that is
                    something that rarely happens.

                    Just my two bobs worth

                    Wes
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • emailbenja
                    ... Precisely my observations. The product is 95%, which means there is 5% of some other crap in there. In an ideal world, its water (inseperable from the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 10, 2005
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                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Wes" <fourtysouth@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ian Kent <kegscruiser@g...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I get 92% and don't use carbon.
                      > > To me it's not worth the effort
                      > >
                      > > On 11/9/05, Rod <bull910@h...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ????
                      > > > i only carbon under 80%
                      > > > you wont be able to tell the difference
                      > > > unless you collect the tails as well and mix them with ya good
                      > stuff!
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > I have followed the thread on filtering for a few weeks and have
                      > been unsure if i have been missing out on something.
                      > I am pretty harsh with the cuts and the end product has been quite
                      > acceptable from a 1200mm reflux still putting out consistantly high
                      > 95% hootch.
                      > I made a filter from a 100mm sewage pipe about a metre long that I
                      > used as a waterproof container for flares and stuff that i wanted to
                      > keep dry in a boat.(no shit)
                      > I cut a hole in the bottom and put a 40mm adapter in that accepts a
                      > bung from a fermenter. I pushed a copper pipe that a tampon fits
                      > inside halfway in on the inside and a tap in the other end of the
                      > bung.
                      > Put 500g of carbon inside and run 9 litres of 40% through it. It
                      > took a couple of days to drip through and the end result.............
                      > it does make a differance, my wife is impressed and brother that is
                      > something that rarely happens.
                      >
                      > Just my two bobs worth
                      >
                      > Wes
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      Precisely my observations. The product is 95%, which means there is 5%
                      of some other crap in there. In an ideal world, its water (inseperable
                      from the azeotropic mix), but i reckon noone can make it that pure.
                      Filter it anyway- its not gonna hurt!
                      cheers
                      benja
                    • Lindsay Williams
                      I m now in the filter, regardless, corner, too. There is no doubt it does make it much more certain that the product will be taintless (new word!!). Cheers,
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 10, 2005
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                        I'm now in the filter, regardless, corner, too. There is no doubt it
                        does make it much more certain that the product will be taintless (new
                        word!!).

                        Cheers,
                        Lindsay.

                        --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "emailbenja" <emailbenja@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Wes" <fourtysouth@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ian Kent <kegscruiser@g...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > I get 92% and don't use carbon.
                        > > > To me it's not worth the effort
                        > > >
                        > > > On 11/9/05, Rod <bull910@h...> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > if your getting 93% why bother with carbon ????
                        > > > > i only carbon under 80%
                        > > > > you wont be able to tell the difference
                        > > > > unless you collect the tails as well and mix them with ya good
                        > > stuff!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > I have followed the thread on filtering for a few weeks and have
                        > > been unsure if i have been missing out on something.
                        > > I am pretty harsh with the cuts and the end product has been quite
                        > > acceptable from a 1200mm reflux still putting out consistantly high
                        > > 95% hootch.
                        > > I made a filter from a 100mm sewage pipe about a metre long that I
                        > > used as a waterproof container for flares and stuff that i wanted to
                        > > keep dry in a boat.(no shit)
                        > > I cut a hole in the bottom and put a 40mm adapter in that accepts a
                        > > bung from a fermenter. I pushed a copper pipe that a tampon fits
                        > > inside halfway in on the inside and a tap in the other end of the
                        > > bung.
                        > > Put 500g of carbon inside and run 9 litres of 40% through it. It
                        > > took a couple of days to drip through and the end result.............
                        > > it does make a differance, my wife is impressed and brother that is
                        > > something that rarely happens.
                        > >
                        > > Just my two bobs worth
                        > >
                        > > Wes
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > Precisely my observations. The product is 95%, which means there is 5%
                        > of some other crap in there. In an ideal world, its water (inseperable
                        > from the azeotropic mix), but i reckon noone can make it that pure.
                        > Filter it anyway- its not gonna hurt!
                        > cheers
                        > benja
                        >
                      • Harry
                        ... it ... (new ... Taintless!!!! The mind boggles! Email me & I ll tell ya what a tainter is. ;) Slainte! regards Harry Moderator
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 10, 2005
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                          --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsay Williams"
                          <linw@x...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm now in the filter, regardless, corner, too. There is no doubt
                          it
                          > does make it much more certain that the product will be taintless
                          (new
                          > word!!).
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Lindsay.



                          Taintless!!!! The mind boggles! Email me & I'll tell ya what
                          a 'tainter' is. ;)


                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry
                          Moderator
                        • emailbenja
                          Quote the product will be taintless (new word!!). Hey i almost wrote unseperatable instead of inseperable in my previous post. This new word thing is easy,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 10, 2005
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                            Quote
                            "the product will be taintless (new word!!). "
                            Hey i almost wrote unseperatable instead of inseperable in my previous
                            post. This new word thing is easy, but you need skill to use existing
                            (forgotten?) ones like Harry does. Any onld fool can spooner their way
                            to so-called new words!
                            cheers
                            benja
                          • Lindsay Williams
                            ... Any onld fool can spooner their way ... Even old fools!! Lindsay.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 10, 2005
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                              --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "emailbenja" <emailbenja@y...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Quote
                              Any onld fool can spooner their way

                              > benja
                              >
                              Even old fools!!

                              Lindsay.
                            • ethanol.dude
                              Here s what I do, take a piece of two inch PVC pipe about 3 foot long. Cap one end, drill a very small hole in the cap, right in the middle, flip it over and
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 11, 2006
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                                Here's what I do, take a piece of two inch PVC pipe about 3 foot
                                long. Cap one end, drill a very small hole in the cap, right in the
                                middle, flip it over and pack it full of activated carbon. Take some
                                PVC increasers and make a funnel at the top(the end that's not capped).

                                Make some kind of stand where it can set straight up and down then put
                                a mason jar under it and fill it full of your distillate. The alcohol
                                runs all the way through and out the very small hole you drilled in
                                the cap at the bottom. This way it gets exposed to lots of carbon on
                                it's way down.

                                Once you have the jar filled you can filter out the small amount of
                                carbon that came through with a cotton filter.

                                Do this two or three times and it really does a good job.

                                ED
                              • fit_dude42
                                Ah-Ha so it does come out with bits in! Thanks. I thought it was me doing something wrong. I presume i could use your method but use the carbon teabags
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 12, 2006
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                                  Ah-Ha so it does come out with bits in! Thanks. I thought it was me
                                  doing something wrong. I presume i could use your method but use the
                                  carbon 'teabags' instead.

                                  I didn't realise you had to filter more than once. I was under the
                                  impression it was a once through deal. Possibly why i'd thought i'd
                                  done it wrong, 'cos it still had a taint.

                                  Thanks for that.

                                  Karl.
                                  Cheers m'dears


                                  --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ethanol.dude"
                                  <ethanol.dude@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Here's what I do, take a piece of two inch PVC pipe about 3 foot
                                  > long. Cap one end, drill a very small hole in the cap, right in
                                  the
                                  > middle, flip it over and pack it full of activated carbon. Take
                                  some
                                  > PVC increasers and make a funnel at the top(the end that's not
                                  capped).
                                  >
                                  > Make some kind of stand where it can set straight up and down then
                                  put
                                  > a mason jar under it and fill it full of your distillate. The
                                  alcohol
                                  > runs all the way through and out the very small hole you drilled
                                  in
                                  > the cap at the bottom. This way it gets exposed to lots of carbon
                                  on
                                  > it's way down.
                                  >
                                  > Once you have the jar filled you can filter out the small amount
                                  of
                                  > carbon that came through with a cotton filter.
                                  >
                                  > Do this two or three times and it really does a good job.
                                  >
                                  > ED
                                  >
                                • xpensv65
                                  Just set up charcoal filter. Is it better to filter fluid pure. Or should I dilute the product first. Thanks
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 21, 2011
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                                    Just set up charcoal filter. Is it better to filter fluid pure. Or should I dilute the product first. Thanks
                                  • bigdaddyg851
                                    dilute to drinking strength .and i have found cold distillate filters better .
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 21, 2011
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                                      dilute to drinking strength .and i have found cold distillate filters better .

                                      --- In new_distillers@yahoogroups.com, "xpensv65" <mabadman@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Just set up charcoal filter. Is it better to filter fluid pure. Or should I dilute the product first. Thanks
                                      >
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