Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [new_distillers] Arr!! Break... something...

Expand Messages
  • John Vandermeulen
    Michael, what was the wort/wash that you were distilling? How did you get it at 30% to begin with? John V
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Michael,
      what was the wort/wash that you were distilling? How did you get it at 30%
      to begin with?
      John V

      Michael wrote:

      > Okay...
      >
      > INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE
      >
      > Modified my still spirits reflux still with a 1m x 2" column and
      > disconnecting the cooling jacket. Running the old condenser at the
      > top of the 1m column, with a 2" to 15mm adapter. Run a 15mm to 2"
      > adapter from the boiler lid to the column. I think the boiler has a
      > 1800W element, although it is unmarked. Have 18 scrubbers packed
      > into my column.
      >
      > Just ran a 15L batch at 30% through it. Got 4.5L at 65%, and another
      > 4.5L at 10%. Final temp was 92 degrees Celcius. This is worse than
      > before I modified the *INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE* still. There are
      > no leaks, and there does not appear to be any leaks from the
      > condenser fluid to the condensate.
      >
      > Only good point is the 65% stuff tastes good (I am drinking this
      > right now ;) )
      >
      > For the life of me I do not understand. Heads came off in about 2
      > seconds flat (actually jumped from 25 deg to 78.5 in about 2 seconds
      > flat no shit), then it settled right on 78.5 degrees, and came off at
      > 85%. Kept like this for about an hour till it started creeping up in
      > temp.
      >
      > At 86 deg and 42% I switched to the second flagon. I had collected
      > 4.5L by this stage. I kept collecting for another 2 hours until I
      > had another 4.5L and it was at 92%.
      >
      > Ah bugger, this is frustrating... It should work...
      >
      > Does anybody have a clue what the f... *INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE* I
      > am doing wrong?
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Michael
      It was an old run that I was redistilling. I had distilled it twice before, and both times it had come out with a very strong acetone sort of smell. It came
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 5, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        It was an old run that I was redistilling. I had distilled it twice
        before, and both times it had come out with a very strong acetone
        sort of smell. It came out without the smell this time, but I do not
        understand why it was so much weaker than it would have been before
        my mods.

        --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
        wrote:
        > Michael,
        > what was the wort/wash that you were distilling? How did you get
        it at 30%
        > to begin with?
        > John V
      • nanosleep
        In the heart of your run you said you got 85% output. The 1 meter column with scrubbers should be able to get this up into the 90+% range. I m not familiar
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 6, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          In the heart of your run you said you got 85% output.
          The 1 meter column with scrubbers should be able to get
          this up into the 90+% range. I'm not familiar with the
          head. Does it provide reflux back into the column? If
          not the you are only getting the 'natural' reflux from
          what recondenses inside the column. This probably is
          not enough reflux.

          With 1800watts you *could* be flooding. I run 1500watts on a
          1.5meter by 2inch column with no troubles. You might try
          packing your column less. Stretch those scrubbies out a bit.
          If possible try reducing the heat input. Don't insulate the
          boiler. When I flood my column the percent drops below 90
          and the output has a smell. The heart of your run should
          smell of alcohol only.

          Also, how fast do you draw off the distillate? You need a
          good percentage refluxed into the column to get the high
          proof output.

          I'd bet with some minor modifications you can be making 90+%

          In my still, temperature is a lousy method to determine the cut
          points. The temp at the top of my column goes from room temp
          to 170F in about 10 seconds. It will ALWAYS go to 170F even
          if I have the offtake valve closed and I'm refluxing everything.
          I use smell to determine when I'm done collecting heads. At the
          end of the run, the temp will still be rock solid on 170F but
          there will start to be a smell of tails in the output. I stop
          my main collection here and collect tails until the temp hits 190
          or 200F.

          -A

          --- In new_distillers@y..., "Michael" <god@p...> wrote:
          > Okay...
          >
          > INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE
          >
          > Modified my still spirits reflux still with a 1m x 2" column and
          > disconnecting the cooling jacket. Running the old condenser at the
          > top of the 1m column, with a 2" to 15mm adapter. Run a 15mm to 2"
          > adapter from the boiler lid to the column. I think the boiler has
          a
          > 1800W element, although it is unmarked. Have 18 scrubbers packed
          > into my column.
          >
          > Just ran a 15L batch at 30% through it. Got 4.5L at 65%, and
          another
          > 4.5L at 10%. Final temp was 92 degrees Celcius. This is worse
          than
          > before I modified the *INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE* still. There are
          > no leaks, and there does not appear to be any leaks from the
          > condenser fluid to the condensate.
          >
          > Only good point is the 65% stuff tastes good (I am drinking this
          > right now ;) )
          >
          > For the life of me I do not understand. Heads came off in about 2
          > seconds flat (actually jumped from 25 deg to 78.5 in about 2
          seconds
          > flat no shit), then it settled right on 78.5 degrees, and came off
          at
          > 85%. Kept like this for about an hour till it started creeping up
          in
          > temp.
          >
          > At 86 deg and 42% I switched to the second flagon. I had collected
          > 4.5L by this stage. I kept collecting for another 2 hours until I
          > had another 4.5L and it was at 92%.
          >
          > Ah bugger, this is frustrating... It should work...
          >
          > Does anybody have a clue what the f... *INSERT SWEARING RANT HERE*
          I
          > am doing wrong?
        • Michael
          What exactly is flooding? Is it when you get liquid forced up the column by boiling it too vigorously? If this is the case, then I had more than 10L of room
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            What exactly is flooding? Is it when you get liquid forced up the
            column by boiling it too vigorously? If this is the case, then I had
            more than 10L of room above the liquid level in my still. It also
            would not explain why I got less than 10%abv liquid condensing out of
            the still at a temp of 92deg cel right at the end of the run when the
            boiler is less than half full.

            The still spirits heads do not provide any means to reflux back to
            the column. I am relying upon the reflux from the column only. This
            gave a draw off rate at the start of 80mL/min, which then dropped to
            40mL/min in about 5 min, and dropped further to 18mL/min after
            another hour. Two hours later it was less than 5mL/min.

            I definitely think that my heating element is too large. I intend to
            install a second element at 1000W. That way I can bring to temp at
            2800W, switch to 1000W to take off heads and middles, and switch to
            1800W to take off tails.

            However this does not explain why the second batch of 4.5L was only
            10%abv and the highest temp that it came off at was 92 deg cel. I've
            got a feeling that I must have sprung a leak in my condenser and got
            water mixed into my output. This does seem to be the only logical
            explanation. Except that I have checked it several times now though,
            and this does not seem to be the case. Oh, well. I wanted to change
            it anyway. Guess I'll just have to make a new condenser.


            --- In new_distillers@y..., "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
            > In the heart of your run you said you got 85% output.
            > The 1 meter column with scrubbers should be able to get
            > this up into the 90+% range. I'm not familiar with the
            > head. Does it provide reflux back into the column? If
            > not the you are only getting the 'natural' reflux from
            > what recondenses inside the column. This probably is
            > not enough reflux.
            >
            > With 1800watts you *could* be flooding. I run 1500watts on a
            > 1.5meter by 2inch column with no troubles. You might try
            > packing your column less. Stretch those scrubbies out a bit.
            > If possible try reducing the heat input. Don't insulate the
            > boiler. When I flood my column the percent drops below 90
            > and the output has a smell. The heart of your run should
            > smell of alcohol only.
            >
            > Also, how fast do you draw off the distillate? You need a
            > good percentage refluxed into the column to get the high
            > proof output.
            >
            > I'd bet with some minor modifications you can be making 90+%
            >
            > In my still, temperature is a lousy method to determine the cut
            > points. The temp at the top of my column goes from room temp
            > to 170F in about 10 seconds. It will ALWAYS go to 170F even
            > if I have the offtake valve closed and I'm refluxing everything.
            > I use smell to determine when I'm done collecting heads. At the
            > end of the run, the temp will still be rock solid on 170F but
            > there will start to be a smell of tails in the output. I stop
            > my main collection here and collect tails until the temp hits 190
            > or 200F.
            >
            > -A
          • Mike Nixon
            Michael asked: Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Arr!! Break... something... What exactly is flooding? Is it when you get liquid forced up the column by boiling
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 6, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Michael asked:
              Subject: [new_distillers] Re: Arr!! Break... something...

              What exactly is flooding?  Is it when you get liquid forced up the
              column by boiling it too vigorously?  If this is the case, then I had
              more than 10L of room above the liquid level in my still.  It also
              would not explain why I got less than 10%abv liquid condensing out of
              the still at a temp of 92deg cel right at the end of the run when the
              boiler is less than half full.
              =================================
              Hi Michael,
               
              No, it's when you operate the still too vigorously and too much liquid condenses on the packing to let vapor through easily.  It's not liquid bubbling up from the boiler, just lots of liquid held up in the packing and choking it.  Often obvious when it happens as it usually rumbles and shakes the whole rig around a lot.
              ===========================
              The still spirits heads do not provide any means to reflux back to
              the column.  I am relying upon the reflux from the column only.  This
              gave a draw off rate at the start of 80mL/min, which then dropped to
              40mL/min in about 5 min, and dropped further to 18mL/min after
              another hour.  Two hours later it was less than 5mL/min.
              ===========================
              That's fine ... a reflux still is almost as good as a more complicated compound still
              ===========================
              I definitely think that my heating element is too large.  I intend to
              install a second element at 1000W.  That way I can bring to temp at
              2800W, switch to 1000W to take off heads and middles, and switch to
              1800W to take off tails.
              ===========================
              This does seem to be problem.  Reducing the heat to the boiler will stop any flooding, and you will also get better separation for a cleaner and stronger product.
              ===========================
              However this does not explain why the second batch of 4.5L was only
              10%abv and the highest temp that it came off at was 92 deg cel.  I've
              got a feeling that I must have sprung a leak in my condenser and got
              water mixed into my output.  This does seem to be the only logical
              explanation.  Except that I have checked it several times now though,
              and this does not seem to be the case.  Oh, well.  I wanted to change
              it anyway.  Guess I'll just have to make a new condenser.
              ==========================
              Dunno about that one ... not without seeing the still.  See below about that condenser.
              ==========================
              --- In new_distillers@y..., "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
              > In the heart of your run you
              said you got 85% output.
              > The 1 meter column with scrubbers should be
              able to get
              > this up into the 90+% range.  I'm not familiar with
              the
              > head.  Does it provide reflux back into the column?  If
              > not the you are only getting the 'natural' reflux from
              > what
              recondenses inside the column.  This probably is
              > not enough
              reflux.
              ==========================
              If 'nanosleep' was talking about a compound column then yes, it has a reflux condenser on top.  However, modify the heating to your boiler first before trying that.  You may well find that you will be pleased enough with the results at lower power and don't need to change your condenser.
               
              Very good advice below .....
              ==========================
               
              > With 1800watts you *could* be
              flooding.  I run 1500watts on a
              > 1.5meter by 2inch column with no
              troubles.  You might try
              > packing your column less.  Stretch
              those scrubbies out a bit.
              > If possible try reducing the heat
              input.  Don't insulate the
              > boiler. When I flood my column the
              percent drops below 90
              > and the output has a smell.  The heart of
              your run should
              > smell of alcohol only.
              >
              > Also, how fast
              do you draw off the distillate?  You need a
              > good percentage
              refluxed into the column to get the high
              > proof output.
              >
              >
              I'd bet with some minor modifications you can be making 90+%
              >
              > In
              my still, temperature is a lousy method to determine the cut
              >
              points.  The temp at the top of my column goes from room temp
              > to
              170F in about 10 seconds.  It will ALWAYS go to 170F even
              > if I have
              the offtake valve closed and I'm refluxing everything.
              > I use smell to
              determine when I'm done collecting heads.  At the
              > end of the run,
              the temp will still be rock solid on 170F but
              > there will start to be a
              smell of tails in the output.  I stop
              > my main collection here and
              collect tails until the temp hits 190
              > or 200F.
              >
              >
              -A
            • Michael
              Thanks for your help guys. Will be swapping elements this weekend and trying again.
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 6, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for your help guys. Will be swapping elements this weekend
                and trying again.
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.