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Re: [new_distillers] Wheat Bourbon

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  • John Vandermeulen
    Hello Jack/ups, I missed out on which brand (of bourbon?) uses whisky , would you refresh my memory on this please? I did try the Beano on my wheat wort, but
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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      Hello Jack/ups,
      I missed out on which brand (of bourbon?) uses 'whisky', would you refresh my
      memory on this please?
      I did try the Beano on my wheat wort, but probably not at the appropriate time
      in the process. Next time I will get the mash ready, WITH the beano and the
      malt/amylase early on in the process, and not at the very end.
      Anyway ..... I decanted the wheat wort into a bunch of canning jars which have
      been in the fridge over night, and settled out nicely. Today or tomorrow I
      will suck off the good liquid with a gravy baster (one of those rubber bulb
      things).

      But .. do you have any suggestions for a fining substance that might 'gel' the
      junk in the bottom of the jars sothat it won't get stirred up again? I just
      read a website of a Vancouver-based micro-brewery - that uses diatomaceous
      earth as primary filter, followed by micro-porous paper filters for secondary /
      final clearing of the beer. I do wonder about this diatom. earth. Yesterday I
      spent a couple of hours trying to pour the stuff through a wad of cotton
      batten. That works with a less clogging wort, but not with this wheat stuff.

      I think that the filtration question is not a problem for the industrial
      big-boys, as they can design and afford special items. It becomes a
      mega-problem for the hobbyist distiller working with 5 or 10 gallons, as there
      really are not affordable and appropriate mini-systems.

      Jack - I am attaching a url to a very interesting article (academic).
      http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:tLGUVXWqIP4C:bibd.uni-giessen.de/gdoc/2001/uni/d010023/d010023j.pdf+fining+mash&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

      I know that you normally do not like attachments, but I found this one through
      searching with google. It describes in good detail the role of phenols in
      wines, etc.

      Finally, I don't find any bit of info. and arcana "useless fact". These
      'useless facts' form the basis for a fascinating bit of western cultural
      history. In fact, I would really like to know more about the design and
      function of the alembic still, especially as it slowly passed from the
      alchemist's 'laboratory' into the hands of 15th and 16th century peasant
      brewers. Distilling is fascinating just because it still relies on the
      simplest techniques, despite all the ancillary advances in chemistry, computer
      control, etc. etc.

      Well - anyway, John V.
      ups474@... wrote:

      > So close- not Bourbon
      > not Whiskey
      > It is, in fact- Whisky- no "e" in the spelling. The founder of
      > the brand asked (and recieved permission) from some Scotch association (in
      > Scotland) to use the Scottish spelling of whisky, out of respect for his
      > family line.
      > This has been another useless fact.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Geoff Redman
      Hello John V., You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent? geoff
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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        Hello John V.,

        You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering
        if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent?

        geoff
      • John Vandermeulen
        No, I have not - except for the bentonite that I believe is part of Sparkolloid. However, next time I m at the brew-store I will look for some. Thank you,
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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          No, I have not - except for the bentonite that I believe is part of
          Sparkolloid. However, next time I'm at the brew-store I will look for some.
          Thank you,
          John V

          Geoff Redman wrote:

          > Hello John V.,
          >
          > You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering
          > if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent?
          >
          > geoff
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • ups474@aol.com
          It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the highest, 2-row doesn t have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it s weight in starch. You may
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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            It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the highest, 2-row doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in starch.
            You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas medication- check some books in the library on over-the-counter drugs, see if you find one listed, then go to the local druggist to see if he has it, or will order it for you.  I ran out, so I don't have the bottle handy.
          • ups474@aol.com
            Not a good idea when you ferment on the grain (like we are doing here)- if you add the hulls to the ferment, you get a really nasty tannic, straw like flavor.
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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              Not a good idea when you ferment on the grain (like we are doing here)- if you add the hulls to the ferment, you get a really nasty tannic, straw like flavor.  If you can't get the stuff to thin out, try the recipe using the oat/rice/etc hulls, cracked corn, malted wheat, a10%addition of 6-row barley, then mash it like an all grain beer, and sparge off the liquid- it might just work.  The Lambic style of beer is made with a 50/50 blend of barley and wheat malt- they still have to add hulls to the mash.  They also stir the mash as they sparge off the liquid (called a "turbid mash" system)- it makes the wort very cloudy, which is bad for beer (unless you filter it), but it shouldn't matter for whisky.
            • ups474@aol.com
              The wheat whiskey posted on Tony s site is from Maker s Mark- that s the brand that spells their type whisky. As for the dia. earth - DON T. that stuff is
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                The wheat whiskey posted on Tony's site is from Maker's Mark- that's the brand that spells their type whisky.
                As for the dia. earth  - DON'T.
                that stuff is mixed with beer, then pushed (under pressure) through a filter plate, as the beer runs through, the Dia earth, packs itself against the filter, increasing effeciency as the filter proceeds- for a home setting using gravity, it would just make a huge mess, as the Dia. earth clogs up your filter.  Using bentonite to help drag down the particles, then siphoning off the clear layer is the best way, unless you want to buy one of those expensive filter setups.
                As for the alembic still's passage from chemists' hands to the use of the peasantry- it's easy to understand.  The originators of ethanol were trying to find the "essence" of existance- they concentrated everything to try to find the "universal active ingredient".  This resulted in ethanol- a remarkable discovery.  A liquid resembling water that burned and had the same effect as four times as much wine!  Initially it was used as a medicine- it became a fad- prescribed (with various other ingredients added) for everything (like an ancient prozac or ritalin), until it became acceptable to drink it even when you were not sick- a recreational beverage totally removed from the structure of a religious inebriant, such as wine, mead, opium, or hash- preventing the backlash from the religious establishment ("you are abusing the sacred "fill-in-the-drug"!/you are under the influence of the Devil's "whatever"!) that tended to result in demonization, then illegal status (read: hash).  As a result of this migration in status, it went from the "secret alchemists' concoction" to something an enterprising alchemist could mass produce, and make money on (provided that sitting in the dark next to a crucible of boiling mercury hasn't caused enough damage to make linear thought impossible).  If you look at various woodcuts from the 15 to 16th century, you see many different designs, some so inefficient looking that they are extinct, until evolution in efficiency gave us the modern potstill, and then the reflux still.  It looks like you and I share an interest in the historic study of this hobby/industry.
              • staffdevuk
                ... highest, 2-row ... starch. I ll get some six row. ... medication- I did some checking and Beano is not approved here yet, but its active ingredient
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                  --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                  > It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the
                  highest, 2-row
                  > doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in
                  starch.

                  I'll get some six row.

                  > You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas
                  medication-

                  I did some checking and "Beano" is not approved here yet, but its'
                  active ingredient is(wait for it) Alpha Galactosidase Enzyme
                  (Melibiase) derived from Aspergillus Niger (Black Mould).

                  I wondered if Koji , The mould used in sake making would do the job.

                  It seems by its name Aspergillus Oryzae to be related to the stuff
                  in "Beano" only the whole organism is used not just an extract.

                  I can obtain Koji easily,what do you think?


                  Tony.
                • John Vandermeulen
                  Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used in animal feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc. John V
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                    Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used in animal
                    feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc.
                    John V

                    staffdevuk wrote:

                    > --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                    > > It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the
                    > highest, 2-row
                    > > doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in
                    > starch.
                    >
                    > I'll get some six row.
                    >
                    > > You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas
                    > medication-
                    >
                    > I did some checking and "Beano" is not approved here yet, but its'
                    > active ingredient is(wait for it) Alpha Galactosidase Enzyme
                    > (Melibiase) derived from Aspergillus Niger (Black Mould).
                    >
                    > I wondered if Koji , The mould used in sake making would do the job.
                    >
                    > It seems by its name Aspergillus Oryzae to be related to the stuff
                    > in "Beano" only the whole organism is used not just an extract.
                    >
                    > I can obtain Koji easily,what do you think?
                    >
                    > Tony.
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • staffdevuk
                    ... in animal ... So are wheat, barley, corn, oats, water & buckets. Tony.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                      --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used
                      in animal
                      > feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc.
                      > John V
                      >


                      So are wheat, barley, corn, oats, water & buckets.

                      Tony.
                    • ups474@aol.com
                      NO KOJI!! it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as biological)- in
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                        NO KOJI!!
                        it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the
                        traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as biological)- in
                        whiskey mash it RUINS the flavor, totally mars the flavor of the grain- it
                        must NOT BE USED!
                      • staffdevuk
                        ... biological)- in ... grain- it ... Jack ups, I do wish you would be a little more decided in your comments,not so wishy washy. Have ordered some Gas-Zyme 3X
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                          --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                          > NO KOJI!!
                          > it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the
                          > traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as
                          biological)- in
                          > whiskey mash it RUINS the flavor, totally mars the flavor of the
                          grain- it
                          > must NOT BE USED!

                          Jack ups,

                          I do wish you would be a little more decided in your comments,not so
                          wishy washy.

                          Have ordered some Gas-Zyme 3X capsules,they seem to have everything
                          mentioned by correspondants cornfed etc. and 3 times as much alpha-
                          thingummy as beano,which is not availiable in the uk .

                          Seeing as how you have run out of beanos,would you like me to send
                          you some of these, as we dont want you becoming known as Jack the
                          Ripper.

                          Cheers,Tony
                        • ups474@aol.com
                          LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                            LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.
                          • Lynne
                            ... ups/Jack ... a polite request: What s the chance of you including some of the original post in your responses? I regard you as one of the semi-guru s
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                              At 12:02 AM 8/6/02 -0400, ups wrote:

                              >LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.

                              ups/Jack ... a polite request:
                              What's the chance of you including some of the original post in your
                              responses? I regard you as one of the semi-guru's here and find many of
                              your posts informative, educational, occasionally amusing, blah, blah; but
                              to be honest I haven't a clue who or what you're responding to half the
                              time. The above is a classic example : eg. what did you get this
                              morning? Or should I just mind my own damn business? :)

                              Cheers,
                              Lynne
                            • ups474@aol.com
                              Sorry- I got some Beano anti gas medicine for my corn and malt whiskey- Tony was joking with me about the gas medicine and my name: Jack the ripper.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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                                Sorry- I got some Beano anti gas medicine for my corn and malt whiskey- Tony
                                was joking with me about the gas medicine and my name: Jack the ripper.
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