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Wheat Bourbon

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  • staffdevuk
    Sorry, back again, Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25 Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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      Sorry, back again,

      Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25
      Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
      wheat bourbon?

      Have looked on Home Distillation site under "sour mash" and "Jack"
      reports a method which seems to only use plain wheat.

      All the beers I have ever brewed have used an amount of pale malt to
      supply the enzymes the yeasts need to convert the sugar.

      "Jack" says when adding the yeast add the enzyme, what enzyme would
      this be? Would it be invertase? Or maybe he means yeast nutrient?

      Could anyone tell me?

      How would you make the mash sour the first time? it seems to be a
      chicken or egg question. Could you do it with an acid?

      That'll probably be enough for now,
      no sense in wearing out your welcome.

      Regards Tony.
    • Nicholas Hamilton
      ... Adding yeast will not do the job (conversion of starch to fermentable sugars). Pale malt, commercial (bacterial) enzyme or treatment with sulfuric acid
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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        >From: "staffdevuk" <staffdevuk@...>
        >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Bourbon
        >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:27:14 -0000
        >
        >Sorry, back again,
        >
        >Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25
        >Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
        >wheat bourbon?
        >
        >Have looked on Home Distillation site under "sour mash" and "Jack"
        >reports a method which seems to only use plain wheat.
        >
        >All the beers I have ever brewed have used an amount of pale malt to
        >supply the enzymes the yeasts need to convert the sugar.
        >
        >"Jack" says when adding the yeast add the enzyme, what enzyme would
        >this be? Would it be invertase? Or maybe he means yeast nutrient?

        Adding yeast will not do the job (conversion of starch to fermentable
        sugars). Pale malt, commercial (bacterial) enzyme or treatment with
        sulfuric acid (fuel uses only on this one) are required.

        The recipe you saw was probably one of the "moonshine" type where sugar is
        added to the unconverted grain. In this type of mash the grain is there
        just to provide enough flavor that the shine doesn't taste quite like white
        rum.

        >
        >Could anyone tell me?
        >
        >How would you make the mash sour the first time? it seems to be a
        >chicken or egg question. Could you do it with an acid?

        Since sour mash is produced by adding stillage to the mash you need a source
        of stillage.

        >
        >That'll probably be enough for now,
        >no sense in wearing out your welcome.
        >
        >Regards Tony.
        >
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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      • John Vandermeulen
        You asked about wheat-bourbon. In fact, that s a misnomer. Any bourbon must by law be a min. of 51% corn, plus barley malt, plus other grain. If you want
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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          You asked about wheat-bourbon. In fact, that's a misnomer. Any 'bourbon' must
          by law be a min. of 51% corn, plus barley malt, plus other grain. If you want
          to convert your sack of wheat into liquor (oh my, what a fate, the thought
          brings me to a stammer), it's whiskey.
          John V.


          > >From: "staffdevuk" <staffdevuk@...>
          > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: [new_distillers] Wheat Bourbon
          > >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:27:14 -0000
          > >
          > >Sorry, back again,
          > >
          > >Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25
          > >Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
          > >wheat bourbon?
          > >
        • John Vandermeulen
          Hello again, I forgot to mention in my last reply that wheat, for me, is very difficult to mash and get to the distilling stage. It is notorious for
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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            Hello again,
            I forgot to mention in my last reply that wheat, for me, is very difficult to
            mash and get to the distilling stage. It is notorious for gelatinizing, and
            I, for one, have yet to figure out how to filter, clarify, or otherwise
            change it from a soupy cloudy liquid to something that won't burn on the
            bottom of your kettle.
            If there is anyone out there who has the answer - please!!! (I did try
            Beano, with no luck.)
            John V

            staffdevuk wrote:

            > Sorry, back again,
            >
            > Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25
            > Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
            > wheat bourbon?
            >
            > Have looked on Home Distillation site under "sour mash" and "Jack"
            > reports a method which seems to only use plain wheat.
            >
            > All the beers I have ever brewed have used an amount of pale malt to
            > supply the enzymes the yeasts need to convert the sugar.
            >
            > "Jack" says when adding the yeast add the enzyme, what enzyme would
            > this be? Would it be invertase? Or maybe he means yeast nutrient?
            >
            > Could anyone tell me?
            >
            > How would you make the mash sour the first time? it seems to be a
            > chicken or egg question. Could you do it with an acid?
            >
            > That'll probably be enough for now,
            > no sense in wearing out your welcome.
            >
            > Regards Tony.
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • ups474@aol.com
            oops- Did I forget to mention a 10%(by weight) addition of 6-row barley to that recipe? The enzyme added with yeast is common anti-gas medicine called beano .
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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              oops- Did I forget to mention a 10%(by weight) addition of 6-row barley to
              that recipe?
              The enzyme added with yeast is common anti-gas medicine called "beano". The
              mashing may be done by mixing all the grain together -milling it, then adding
              cold water (5 or 6 gallons per 10- 15 pounds of mixed grain), and adding the
              yeast/beano after everything is blended together- the 6-row enzymes will work
              at room temp- with no loss of yield, just an extra day of fermenting.
              You can sour it with lactic acid culture (incubate, then kill off with a
              quick boil- make one gallon+ of mash for this purpose, strain it when
              acidified/boiled, then use the liquid in place of one-fourth of the water in
              the mash.)
              For those of you who don't already know - I am Jack.
            • ups474@aol.com
              So close- not Bourbon not Whiskey It is, in fact- Whisky- no e in the spelling. The founder of the brand asked (and recieved permission) from some Scotch
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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                So close- not Bourbon
                not Whiskey
                It is, in fact- Whisky- no "e" in the spelling. The founder of
                the brand asked (and recieved permission) from some Scotch association (in
                Scotland) to use the Scottish spelling of whisky, out of respect for his
                family line.
                This has been another useless fact.
              • staffdevuk
                ... difficult to ... gelatinizing, and ... otherwise ... on the ... try ... John, I have a 22 gall. copper which will house a 14 gall. fermenting bin perfectly
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 2, 2002
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                  --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hello again,
                  > I forgot to mention in my last reply that wheat, for me, is very
                  difficult to
                  > mash and get to the distilling stage. It is notorious for
                  gelatinizing, and
                  > I, for one, have yet to figure out how to filter, clarify, or
                  otherwise
                  > change it from a soupy cloudy liquid to something that won't burn
                  on the
                  > bottom of your kettle.
                  > If there is anyone out there who has the answer - please!!! (I did
                  try
                  > Beano, with no luck.)
                  > John V
                  >


                  John,

                  I have a 22 gall. copper which will house a 14 gall. fermenting bin
                  perfectly so I could use it as a water jacket. I could distill the
                  whole mess without having to separate it.

                  Do you think this will work?

                  I could easily modify the lid to make it a pot still.

                  regards,

                  Tony.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@o...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • staffdevuk
                  ... barley to ... I think you may have. Could I use the Pale Malt I already have? ... called beano . Don t seem to be able to find beano here, maybe we enjoy
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                    --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                    > oops- Did I forget to mention a 10%(by weight) addition of 6-row
                    barley to
                    > that recipe?

                    I think you may have. Could I use the Pale Malt I already have?


                    > The enzyme added with yeast is common anti-gas medicine
                    called "beano".

                    Don't seem to be able to find beano here, maybe we enjoy a good fart,
                    is there a generic name for me to try?


                    The
                    > mashing may be done by mixing all the grain together -milling it,
                    then adding
                    > cold water (5 or 6 gallons per 10- 15 pounds of mixed grain), and
                    adding the
                    > yeast/beano after everything is blended together- the 6-row enzymes
                    will work
                    > at room temp- with no loss of yield, just an extra day of
                    fermenting.
                    > You can sour it with lactic acid culture (incubate, then kill off
                    with a
                    > quick boil- make one gallon+ of mash for this purpose, strain it
                    when
                    > acidified/boiled, then use the liquid in place of one-fourth of the
                    water in
                    > the mash.)
                    > For those of you who don't already know - I am Jack.

                    Thanks Jack,Tony.
                  • Geoff Redman
                    As John V. mentioned, an all-wheat mash tends to be a glutenous mess. Some brewer s of all-wheat beer with whom I ve communicated have suggested adding oat or
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                      As John V. mentioned, an all-wheat mash tends to be a glutenous mess.
                      Some brewer's of all-wheat beer with whom I've communicated have
                      suggested adding oat or rice hulls to the mash to help keep the wheat
                      from turning into a big glob. Maybe 10% to 20% of the total mash could
                      be hulls. I've never tried this, so I don't really know if it would
                      help...

                      geoff
                    • Nicholas Hamilton
                      ... You should get a thin workable mash if you mash by adding your milled wheat and about 20% of your malt (milled) to _cold_ water in the mash tun and
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                        >From: John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@...>
                        >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Wheat Bourbon
                        >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:04:08 -0300
                        >
                        >Hello again,
                        >I forgot to mention in my last reply that wheat, for me, is very difficult
                        >to
                        >mash and get to the distilling stage. It is notorious for gelatinizing,
                        >and
                        >I, for one, have yet to figure out how to filter, clarify, or otherwise
                        >change it from a soupy cloudy liquid to something that won't burn on the
                        >bottom of your kettle.
                        >If there is anyone out there who has the answer - please!!! (I did try
                        >Beano, with no luck.)

                        You should get a thin workable mash if you mash by adding your milled wheat
                        and about 20% of your malt (milled) to _cold_ water in the mash tun and
                        _slowly_ heating it to about 150F and hold for about 15-25 min. This will
                        allow the enzymes in the malt to start converting the starches before they
                        gel. After boiling the mash for about 30 min cool to about 145-150F and
                        add the remainder of your milled malt and hold for 45-120 min to complete
                        the conversion (test a sample for residual starch with iodine).

                        For whisky cool to about 70F and pitch yeast; distill the result grain and
                        all.

                        For beer add rice hulls and use standard techniques to filer out the wort
                        (the result is typically cloudy). Cool, pitch etc. as normal.

                        >John V
                        >
                        >staffdevuk wrote:
                        >
                        > > Sorry, back again,
                        > >
                        > > Being an all grain brewer and this morning the unexpected owner of 25
                        > > Kg. of cut wheat, can anyone tell me if I can try to make some all
                        > > wheat bourbon?
                        > >
                        > > Have looked on Home Distillation site under "sour mash" and "Jack"
                        > > reports a method which seems to only use plain wheat.
                        > >
                        > > All the beers I have ever brewed have used an amount of pale malt to
                        > > supply the enzymes the yeasts need to convert the sugar.
                        > >
                        > > "Jack" says when adding the yeast add the enzyme, what enzyme would
                        > > this be? Would it be invertase? Or maybe he means yeast nutrient?
                        > >
                        > > Could anyone tell me?
                        > >
                        > > How would you make the mash sour the first time? it seems to be a
                        > > chicken or egg question. Could you do it with an acid?
                        > >
                        > > That'll probably be enough for now,
                        > > no sense in wearing out your welcome.
                        > >
                        > > Regards Tony.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >




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                      • John Vandermeulen
                        Hello Jack/ups, I missed out on which brand (of bourbon?) uses whisky , would you refresh my memory on this please? I did try the Beano on my wheat wort, but
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                          Hello Jack/ups,
                          I missed out on which brand (of bourbon?) uses 'whisky', would you refresh my
                          memory on this please?
                          I did try the Beano on my wheat wort, but probably not at the appropriate time
                          in the process. Next time I will get the mash ready, WITH the beano and the
                          malt/amylase early on in the process, and not at the very end.
                          Anyway ..... I decanted the wheat wort into a bunch of canning jars which have
                          been in the fridge over night, and settled out nicely. Today or tomorrow I
                          will suck off the good liquid with a gravy baster (one of those rubber bulb
                          things).

                          But .. do you have any suggestions for a fining substance that might 'gel' the
                          junk in the bottom of the jars sothat it won't get stirred up again? I just
                          read a website of a Vancouver-based micro-brewery - that uses diatomaceous
                          earth as primary filter, followed by micro-porous paper filters for secondary /
                          final clearing of the beer. I do wonder about this diatom. earth. Yesterday I
                          spent a couple of hours trying to pour the stuff through a wad of cotton
                          batten. That works with a less clogging wort, but not with this wheat stuff.

                          I think that the filtration question is not a problem for the industrial
                          big-boys, as they can design and afford special items. It becomes a
                          mega-problem for the hobbyist distiller working with 5 or 10 gallons, as there
                          really are not affordable and appropriate mini-systems.

                          Jack - I am attaching a url to a very interesting article (academic).
                          http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:tLGUVXWqIP4C:bibd.uni-giessen.de/gdoc/2001/uni/d010023/d010023j.pdf+fining+mash&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

                          I know that you normally do not like attachments, but I found this one through
                          searching with google. It describes in good detail the role of phenols in
                          wines, etc.

                          Finally, I don't find any bit of info. and arcana "useless fact". These
                          'useless facts' form the basis for a fascinating bit of western cultural
                          history. In fact, I would really like to know more about the design and
                          function of the alembic still, especially as it slowly passed from the
                          alchemist's 'laboratory' into the hands of 15th and 16th century peasant
                          brewers. Distilling is fascinating just because it still relies on the
                          simplest techniques, despite all the ancillary advances in chemistry, computer
                          control, etc. etc.

                          Well - anyway, John V.
                          ups474@... wrote:

                          > So close- not Bourbon
                          > not Whiskey
                          > It is, in fact- Whisky- no "e" in the spelling. The founder of
                          > the brand asked (and recieved permission) from some Scotch association (in
                          > Scotland) to use the Scottish spelling of whisky, out of respect for his
                          > family line.
                          > This has been another useless fact.
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Geoff Redman
                          Hello John V., You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent? geoff
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                            Hello John V.,

                            You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering
                            if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent?

                            geoff
                          • John Vandermeulen
                            No, I have not - except for the bentonite that I believe is part of Sparkolloid. However, next time I m at the brew-store I will look for some. Thank you,
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                              No, I have not - except for the bentonite that I believe is part of
                              Sparkolloid. However, next time I'm at the brew-store I will look for some.
                              Thank you,
                              John V

                              Geoff Redman wrote:

                              > Hello John V.,
                              >
                              > You were discussing filtering with diatomaceous earth. I was wondering
                              > if you ever used bentonite as a fining agent?
                              >
                              > geoff
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            • ups474@aol.com
                              It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the highest, 2-row doesn t have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it s weight in starch. You may
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the highest, 2-row doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in starch.
                                You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas medication- check some books in the library on over-the-counter drugs, see if you find one listed, then go to the local druggist to see if he has it, or will order it for you.  I ran out, so I don't have the bottle handy.
                              • ups474@aol.com
                                Not a good idea when you ferment on the grain (like we are doing here)- if you add the hulls to the ferment, you get a really nasty tannic, straw like flavor.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                  Not a good idea when you ferment on the grain (like we are doing here)- if you add the hulls to the ferment, you get a really nasty tannic, straw like flavor.  If you can't get the stuff to thin out, try the recipe using the oat/rice/etc hulls, cracked corn, malted wheat, a10%addition of 6-row barley, then mash it like an all grain beer, and sparge off the liquid- it might just work.  The Lambic style of beer is made with a 50/50 blend of barley and wheat malt- they still have to add hulls to the mash.  They also stir the mash as they sparge off the liquid (called a "turbid mash" system)- it makes the wort very cloudy, which is bad for beer (unless you filter it), but it shouldn't matter for whisky.
                                • ups474@aol.com
                                  The wheat whiskey posted on Tony s site is from Maker s Mark- that s the brand that spells their type whisky. As for the dia. earth - DON T. that stuff is
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 3, 2002
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                                    The wheat whiskey posted on Tony's site is from Maker's Mark- that's the brand that spells their type whisky.
                                    As for the dia. earth  - DON'T.
                                    that stuff is mixed with beer, then pushed (under pressure) through a filter plate, as the beer runs through, the Dia earth, packs itself against the filter, increasing effeciency as the filter proceeds- for a home setting using gravity, it would just make a huge mess, as the Dia. earth clogs up your filter.  Using bentonite to help drag down the particles, then siphoning off the clear layer is the best way, unless you want to buy one of those expensive filter setups.
                                    As for the alembic still's passage from chemists' hands to the use of the peasantry- it's easy to understand.  The originators of ethanol were trying to find the "essence" of existance- they concentrated everything to try to find the "universal active ingredient".  This resulted in ethanol- a remarkable discovery.  A liquid resembling water that burned and had the same effect as four times as much wine!  Initially it was used as a medicine- it became a fad- prescribed (with various other ingredients added) for everything (like an ancient prozac or ritalin), until it became acceptable to drink it even when you were not sick- a recreational beverage totally removed from the structure of a religious inebriant, such as wine, mead, opium, or hash- preventing the backlash from the religious establishment ("you are abusing the sacred "fill-in-the-drug"!/you are under the influence of the Devil's "whatever"!) that tended to result in demonization, then illegal status (read: hash).  As a result of this migration in status, it went from the "secret alchemists' concoction" to something an enterprising alchemist could mass produce, and make money on (provided that sitting in the dark next to a crucible of boiling mercury hasn't caused enough damage to make linear thought impossible).  If you look at various woodcuts from the 15 to 16th century, you see many different designs, some so inefficient looking that they are extinct, until evolution in efficiency gave us the modern potstill, and then the reflux still.  It looks like you and I share an interest in the historic study of this hobby/industry.
                                  • staffdevuk
                                    ... highest, 2-row ... starch. I ll get some six row. ... medication- I did some checking and Beano is not approved here yet, but its active ingredient
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                      --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                                      > It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the
                                      highest, 2-row
                                      > doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in
                                      starch.

                                      I'll get some six row.

                                      > You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas
                                      medication-

                                      I did some checking and "Beano" is not approved here yet, but its'
                                      active ingredient is(wait for it) Alpha Galactosidase Enzyme
                                      (Melibiase) derived from Aspergillus Niger (Black Mould).

                                      I wondered if Koji , The mould used in sake making would do the job.

                                      It seems by its name Aspergillus Oryzae to be related to the stuff
                                      in "Beano" only the whole organism is used not just an extract.

                                      I can obtain Koji easily,what do you think?


                                      Tony.
                                    • John Vandermeulen
                                      Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used in animal feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc. John V
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                        Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used in animal
                                        feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc.
                                        John V

                                        staffdevuk wrote:

                                        > --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                                        > > It depends on the enzyme content of your malt- 6-row is the
                                        > highest, 2-row
                                        > > doesn't have the enzymic power to convert 10 times it's weight in
                                        > starch.
                                        >
                                        > I'll get some six row.
                                        >
                                        > > You may want to ask a pharmacist about an enzyme- based anti gas
                                        > medication-
                                        >
                                        > I did some checking and "Beano" is not approved here yet, but its'
                                        > active ingredient is(wait for it) Alpha Galactosidase Enzyme
                                        > (Melibiase) derived from Aspergillus Niger (Black Mould).
                                        >
                                        > I wondered if Koji , The mould used in sake making would do the job.
                                        >
                                        > It seems by its name Aspergillus Oryzae to be related to the stuff
                                        > in "Beano" only the whole organism is used not just an extract.
                                        >
                                        > I can obtain Koji easily,what do you think?
                                        >
                                        > Tony.
                                        >
                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      • staffdevuk
                                        ... in animal ... So are wheat, barley, corn, oats, water & buckets. Tony.
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                          --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > Hello, further re Aspergillus - I forgot to mention that it is used
                                          in animal
                                          > feed for dairy cattle, poultry, hogs, etc.
                                          > John V
                                          >


                                          So are wheat, barley, corn, oats, water & buckets.

                                          Tony.
                                        • ups474@aol.com
                                          NO KOJI!! it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as biological)- in
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 4, 2002
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                                            NO KOJI!!
                                            it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the
                                            traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as biological)- in
                                            whiskey mash it RUINS the flavor, totally mars the flavor of the grain- it
                                            must NOT BE USED!
                                          • staffdevuk
                                            ... biological)- in ... grain- it ... Jack ups, I do wish you would be a little more decided in your comments,not so wishy washy. Have ordered some Gas-Zyme 3X
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                              --- In new_distillers@y..., ups474@a... wrote:
                                              > NO KOJI!!
                                              > it has a very strange aroma/flavor. If used in sake, it gives the
                                              > traditional sake tartness and aroma (can only be described as
                                              biological)- in
                                              > whiskey mash it RUINS the flavor, totally mars the flavor of the
                                              grain- it
                                              > must NOT BE USED!

                                              Jack ups,

                                              I do wish you would be a little more decided in your comments,not so
                                              wishy washy.

                                              Have ordered some Gas-Zyme 3X capsules,they seem to have everything
                                              mentioned by correspondants cornfed etc. and 3 times as much alpha-
                                              thingummy as beano,which is not availiable in the uk .

                                              Seeing as how you have run out of beanos,would you like me to send
                                              you some of these, as we dont want you becoming known as Jack the
                                              Ripper.

                                              Cheers,Tony
                                            • ups474@aol.com
                                              LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.
                                              • Lynne
                                                ... ups/Jack ... a polite request: What s the chance of you including some of the original post in your responses? I regard you as one of the semi-guru s
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Aug 5, 2002
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                                                  At 12:02 AM 8/6/02 -0400, ups wrote:

                                                  >LOL- I got some this morning, thanks, Tony.

                                                  ups/Jack ... a polite request:
                                                  What's the chance of you including some of the original post in your
                                                  responses? I regard you as one of the semi-guru's here and find many of
                                                  your posts informative, educational, occasionally amusing, blah, blah; but
                                                  to be honest I haven't a clue who or what you're responding to half the
                                                  time. The above is a classic example : eg. what did you get this
                                                  morning? Or should I just mind my own damn business? :)

                                                  Cheers,
                                                  Lynne
                                                • ups474@aol.com
                                                  Sorry- I got some Beano anti gas medicine for my corn and malt whiskey- Tony was joking with me about the gas medicine and my name: Jack the ripper.
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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                                                    Sorry- I got some Beano anti gas medicine for my corn and malt whiskey- Tony
                                                    was joking with me about the gas medicine and my name: Jack the ripper.
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