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Re: thick corn mash

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  • reese mack
    ... Hello, John. I encountered this exact problem on my first attempt at distillation. I used a mixture of flaked corn, flaked rye and cracked, malted barley
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 29, 2002
      | Does anyone have an answer to THICK corn mash? I mean -
      | totally thick corn mash? How do I get the wort out of
      | it after fermentation?
      |
      | Situation is this. I weigh out the required amount of
      | flaked corn for a 20L mash (in two 10L pails), add the
      | barley malt, and then fill with 20L water. After the
      | mashing I can either separate corn pulp from the water
      | and distill the latter, or distill the whole mash and
      | separate the wort for distillation. However, the corn
      | absorbs all the water and I have two pails solid with corn
      | porridge. The only solution sofar is to continue adding
      | more water until I have a slurry that I can try filter, but
      | I have a hell of a mess by then. I do not have access to
      | anything much larger than 19quart s.s. kettles. Any comments
      | or even better, advice?

      Hello, John.

      I encountered this exact problem on my first attempt at distillation. I used
      a mixture of flaked corn, flaked rye and cracked, malted barley and wound up
      with the porridge you described. I solved the problem the first time around
      by tossing the whole batch <g>. This time around, however, I found a "feed
      store" (a store that sells bagged grains for the feeding horses or wildlife)
      that sells 50-lb (23 kg) bags of "chopped corn" for $5.40 USD; I used
      approximately $0.18 USD-worth in my second batch, so my bag should last for
      some time to come. Chopped corn has had each kernel chopped into 2-4 pieces
      and remains on the "bulky" side; heavier than "grit" corn (and certainly
      heavier than flaked), but lighter than whole-kernel or even cracked corn. It
      is the perfect size/cut to remain securely tied-off inside a grain bag
      during the fermentation process. You will need to cook it longer than the
      flaked, but it will solve your absorption/filtration problem. (And thanks to
      Bob for this timely piece of advice.)

      Regards,

      rm
    • John Vandermeulen
      Hello Reese Mack, Many thanks for your reply. More questions .......... 1) I have thought about using a different corn - but would the chopped or cracked
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 29, 2002
        Hello Reese Mack,
        Many thanks for your reply. More questions ..........
        1) I have thought about using a different corn - but would the chopped or
        cracked corn not behave in the same way as flaked corn? Would it not absorb the
        water in the same way, after all it is still corn starch?
        2) Also, I take it that you suspend the boiled cracked corn inside a feed bag
        during fermentation?
        3) How do you get the wort off the fermented corn - squeezing with your hands?
        Some sort of press? A lauter vat/set-up? I just spent 1 1/2 hrs squeezing,
        sparging, and more squeezing 20L of wort out of my corn mash. Painfully long
        process. I am considering building a cider-type press to do this. How on earth
        do all you corn liquor makers do it? Surely I am not the only one with this
        problem!
        John V

        reese mack wrote:

        > | Does anyone have an answer to THICK corn mash? I mean -
        > | totally thick corn mash? How do I get the wort out of
        > | it after fermentation?
        > |
        > | Situation is this. I weigh out the required amount of
        > | flaked corn for a 20L mash (in two 10L pails), add the
        > | barley malt, and then fill with 20L water. After the
        > | mashing I can either separate corn pulp from the water
        > | and distill the latter, or distill the whole mash and
        > | separate the wort for distillation. However, the corn
        > | absorbs all the water and I have two pails solid with corn
        > | porridge. The only solution sofar is to continue adding
        > | more water until I have a slurry that I can try filter, but
        > | I have a hell of a mess by then. I do not have access to
        > | anything much larger than 19quart s.s. kettles. Any comments
        > | or even better, advice?
        >
        > Hello, John.
        >
        > I encountered this exact problem on my first attempt at distillation. I used
        > a mixture of flaked corn, flaked rye and cracked, malted barley and wound up
        > with the porridge you described. I solved the problem the first time around
        > by tossing the whole batch <g>. This time around, however, I found a "feed
        > store" (a store that sells bagged grains for the feeding horses or wildlife)
        > that sells 50-lb (23 kg) bags of "chopped corn" for $5.40 USD; I used
        > approximately $0.18 USD-worth in my second batch, so my bag should last for
        > some time to come. Chopped corn has had each kernel chopped into 2-4 pieces
        > and remains on the "bulky" side; heavier than "grit" corn (and certainly
        > heavier than flaked), but lighter than whole-kernel or even cracked corn. It
        > is the perfect size/cut to remain securely tied-off inside a grain bag
        > during the fermentation process. You will need to cook it longer than the
        > flaked, but it will solve your absorption/filtration problem. (And thanks to
        > Bob for this timely piece of advice.)
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > rm
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • reese mack
        ... It absorbs water, yes, but it only swells and remains relatively intact. Flaked corn, on the other hand, is corn that has been ground, rolled and then cut
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 29, 2002
          | 1) I have thought about using a different corn - but would
          | the chopped or cracked corn not behave in the same way as
          | flaked corn? Would it not absorb the water in the same way,
          | after all it is still corn starch?

          It absorbs water, yes, but it only swells and remains relatively intact.
          Flaked corn, on the other hand, is corn that has been ground, rolled and
          then cut into flakes. When it absorbs water, it reverts back to its
          finely-ground state, hence your porridge problem. Chopped or cracked corn,
          while it absorbs water, will do so slowly, so you need to cook it longer and
          at a higher temperature. I kept my water at boiling through out the whole
          cooking process.


          | 2) Also, I take it that you suspend the boiled cracked corn
          | inside a feed bag during fermentation?

          Yes. I have a large brewers bag that fits over the opening of my
          fermentation bucket, reaching to its bottom. After filling the fermentation
          bucket with sugar water, I line the bucket with the bag, cook the corn/malt
          and then simply pour it (and the excess water in which it was cooked) in.
          Then I tie the bag off with a loose overhand knot and put the lid on the
          bucket while it cools. It remains in the bucket and tied during the whole
          fermentation process. Afterwards, the bag will be emptied and washed for use
          in my next go.


          | 3) How do you get the wort off the fermented corn - squeezing
          | with your hands? Some sort of press? A lauter vat/set-up?

          It should be possible to just simply rinse the bag with warm water,
          capturing what drains through. A good squeezing might help, but what you
          would get off wouldn't match the quantities of wort already suspended in the
          remainder of your now-brewer-bag-free fermentation bucket. The excess water
          that was available after cooking the corn/malt mix (and the corn's action on
          the wort while in the bucket) should have already contained enough starchy
          goodness to flavor the sugar-water wort base well enough.


          | I just spent 1 1/2 hrs squeezing, sparging, and more squeezing
          | 20L of wort out of my corn mash. Painfully long process. I am
          | considering building a cider-type press to do this.

          I can empathize. I spent about the same amount of time attempting to strain
          my flaked corn with kitchen (pasta) strainers in my first go. The process
          was long, hot and created a huge mess (along with one VERY snippy wife).
          Then I was turned on to chopped corn. Life is good, now. <g>


          | How on earth do all you corn liquor makers do it? Surely I am
          | not the only one with this problem!

          My dad tells me that moonshiners didn't worry with the "squeezins," really.
          They just used a sugar-water base, fermenting it with liberal amounts of
          corn. After fermentation, a little of the left-overs were held for the next
          batch, the rest was dried and fed to pigs.

          Regards,

          rm
        • ups474@aol.com
          A small wine press works well. As does using only half as much corn in the batch, fermenting out to about 5%abv, then freeze concentrating to 10%, then
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 29, 2002
            A small wine press works well.
            As does using only half as much corn in the batch, fermenting out to about
            5%abv, then freeze concentrating to 10%, then distilling.
          • ups474@aol.com
            No - you are not the only one with this problem- even the big guys have to deal with it. Legal distilleries get around it by distilling on the solids - in
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 29, 2002
              No - you are not the only one with this problem- even the "big guys" have to
              deal with it. Legal distilleries get around it by "distilling on the
              solids"- in other words, the use steam equipment to prevent scorching, they
              then distill the whole thing unfiltered!
              I've been playing around with cracked and corn meal- it doesn't behave like
              flaked corn does - no where near as thick a mash- it stays a liquid with a
              bit of granular solids in it- but it doesn't set like oatmeal. I'm making
              the sugar/cornmeal/honey mash that's on Tony's site- it's listed as a family
              recipe that tastes like crown royal. When I made a batch with flaked corn-
              thick oatmeal- it's still fermenting. 2 days ago I made another batch using
              corn meal from the grocery store- it's still fermenting, but I can stir it
              without the spoon bending. When I run it, I'll let everyone know how it
              comes out.
            • John Vandermeulen
              Hello Reese, ups, many thanks for the note on use of cracked corn vs flaked. I have not had a chance to try it, but did phone around for its availability and
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 31, 2002
                Hello Reese, ups,
                many thanks for the note on use of cracked corn vs flaked. I have not had a
                chance to try it, but did phone around for its availability and price. Whew -
                25kg cracked corn is $8.25, vs. 1kg of flaked (from the brewstore) is $4. Some
                difference.
                John V
              • active inertia
                Hi Just wondering if you live is Aus ans if you do what is the address of this place that sells clacked corn. Thanks Martin ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 31, 2002
                  Hi
                  Just wondering if you live is Aus ans if you do what is the address of this
                  place that sells clacked corn.
                  Thanks
                  Martin

                  >From: John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@...>
                  >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: thick corn mash
                  >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:38:01 -0300
                  >
                  >Hello Reese, ups,
                  >many thanks for the note on use of cracked corn vs flaked. I have not had
                  >a
                  >chance to try it, but did phone around for its availability and price.
                  >Whew -
                  >25kg cracked corn is $8.25, vs. 1kg of flaked (from the brewstore) is $4.
                  >Some
                  >difference.
                  >John V
                  >




                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                • staffdevuk
                  ... thick corn ... John, This may be totally irrelavent,probably is, but I ve had a similar problem with flaked corn,when brewing ale. The wort will not run
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 1, 2002
                    --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hello All,
                    > Does anyone have an answer to THICK corn mash? I mean - totally
                    thick corn
                    > mash? How do I get the wort out of it after fermentation?
                    >


                    John,

                    This may be totally irrelavent,probably is, but I've had a similar
                    problem with flaked corn,when brewing ale.

                    The wort will not run from the mash tun.

                    Finally I used to bale it out by hand into a fine filter bag in a
                    sanitised spin dryer.

                    This did the trick.

                    Tony.
                  • John Vandermeulen
                    Sorry - Canada
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 1, 2002
                      Sorry - Canada

                      active inertia wrote:

                      > Hi
                      > Just wondering if you live is Aus ans if you do what is the address of this
                      > place that sells clacked corn.
                      > Thanks
                      > Martin
                      >
                      > >From: John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@...>
                      > >Reply-To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: thick corn mash
                      > >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:38:01 -0300
                      > >
                      > >Hello Reese, ups,
                      > >many thanks for the note on use of cracked corn vs flaked. I have not had
                      > >a
                      > >chance to try it, but did phone around for its availability and price.
                      > >Whew -
                      > >25kg cracked corn is $8.25, vs. 1kg of flaked (from the brewstore) is $4.
                      > >Some
                      > >difference.
                      > >John V
                      > >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • John Vandermeulen
                      Hello Tony Great idea. What sort of spin dryer do you have? A kitchen variety for drying lettuce? John V
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 1, 2002
                        Hello Tony
                        Great idea. What sort of spin dryer do you have? A kitchen variety for
                        drying lettuce?
                        John V

                        staffdevuk wrote:

                        > --- In new_distillers@y..., John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@n...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Hello All,
                        > > Does anyone have an answer to THICK corn mash? I mean - totally
                        > thick corn
                        > > mash? How do I get the wort out of it after fermentation?
                        > >
                        >
                        > John,
                        >
                        > This may be totally irrelavent,probably is, but I've had a similar
                        > problem with flaked corn,when brewing ale.
                        >
                        > The wort will not run from the mash tun.
                        >
                        > Finally I used to bale it out by hand into a fine filter bag in a
                        > sanitised spin dryer.
                        >
                        > This did the trick.
                        >
                        > Tony.
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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