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RE: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker

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  • Rob van Leuven
    ... Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@mhanover.freeserve.co.uk] Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24 Aan: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: Re:
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2001
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      -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@...]
      Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
      Aan: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker

      Many thanks for your comments Giles.
      I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any diagrams/photos, and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker design.
      Thanks again.
      Martin....
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Giles <giles@...>
      To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
      Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker


      > Hi Giles.
      > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run yet.
      > But will be shortly.
      > My question is..
      > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
      > Many thanks in advance.
      > Martin.....
      The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make it hard to pack/clean the column.

      Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat and (b) regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and full reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux. (although you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S design, the default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can stabilise the column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.

      I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling potential and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just condenses vapour straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux process.

      I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol with your stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will be quite good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.

      ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design without too much difficulty.



       
      Hi guys,
      attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at the moment I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet. Believe it, if you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
      Rob 


    • klcampbell
      Hi Mark,sorry it has taken me a while to respond,I built the Mk1.column not the straight through model for the reason I could not see how you could control the
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 5, 2001
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        Hi Mark,sorry it has taken me a while to respond,I built the Mk1.column not
        the straight through model for the reason I could not see how you could
        control the reflux and direct it back down the centre of the packing.
        My system uses a hot plate with 2 elements,1@... 1 @ 750w.both turned
        on for heatup and 1000w. for the run.I use a solid state Ascon M3controller
        and solid state relay.The thermocouple is imbedded in the centre of the
        10mm. alloy hotplate,from underneath to give good control.

        When running I have 2 options,in the cooler months of the year I set up and
        turn on about 11.00 P.M.,setting the heat at 135o C with water running
        through the condenser and go to bed.At 6.00 A.M. column temp. at 68-70o,time
        to start bleeding off the head.I then turn up the heat to 165oC which
        experience has shown to be the best heat for my setup.By 10.00A.M.the head
        is clean and the temp. is at 78.4,and the column is starting to produce
        clean spirit.The first 500ml.is around 93% and by the time 2 litres has come
        over the purity is at 96+%.
        If you are not condensing all of the vapour your boilup rate is too high and
        you are flooding the packing in the column.You have not mentioned how much
        packing you have in the column.I use just over 1 metre of S/S scrubbers and
        have heavy insulation right up to the condenser.I run at 14:1 reflux and
        collect @ 360mls per hour.I use a digital thermometer,only in the top of the
        tower also i have fine control of the water supply through the condenser
        with a thermometer reading the discharge temperature of the water.One other
        thing I have been trying is 1Kg. of Raschig Rings in the kettle to even out
        the boil rate of the wash,don't know if it helps but I know they do it in
        Laboritories.Sorry Mark I got a bit carried away there but I hope that has
        helped you a little bit.
        Cheers for now,Regards Ken.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bennett, Mark E" <mark.e.bennett@...>
        To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2001 9:58
        Subject: RE: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmakero

        > Ken
        > Some time back I built a Nixon/stone design using 50 mm S/S tube
        > with a 6mm copper condenser coil about 400mm long on there alternative
        > stillhead design (no bend). I found that I could not condense all of the
        > steam rising and I was loosing product to the atmosphere (Approx 2.6 mj /
        > Hour or .7 kw , output = 63 ml per min no reflux) , no matter how much
        > cooling water I threw at the condenser. My assumption was that as I had
        > increased the tube size from there design of 30 - 35mm to 50mm. I was
        having
        > problems bringing the steam in contact with coil due to the larger
        internal
        > area in the 50mm tube. I then changed the design to a 600 mm jacketed
        > condenser (35 mm bore) but still had problem with steam escaping out of
        the
        > top. I eventually added 12 x 30mm S/S welsh plugs suspended on a 4mm S/S
        > rod inside the condenser to force the steam closer to the cooling surface
        > and this resolved my problem.
        >
        > My question :
        > 1. Have you experienced problems of ethanol vapour rising out of the top
        of
        > the stillhead
        > 2. If yes how have you overcome this problem
        > 3. Do you know what you energy input is (KW or Mj)
        > 4. Can you let me know what your product output is ml/min (No Reflux)
        > 5. What is the boiler temperature when you stop the run ( My interest here
        > is for the % of alcohol remaining in the boiler. The reading would need
        to
        > be with a thermometer that you had calibrated against boiling water 100c)
        >
        > I have concerns with the safety of the open still head design as there is
        a
        > chance of volatile vapours escaping from the top of the still head as well
        > as the product output is also hot and releasing vapours to the atmosphere
        > which could ignite or worse explode if the still was used in an enclosed
        > environment.
        > Are you others concerned with the escaping vapours or could this be my
        > previous experience has made me wary.
        >
        > Mark
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: klcampbell [SMTP:klcampbell@...]
        > > Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2001 09:03 pm
        > > To: new_distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmaker
        > >
        > > Hi Frank,I started with a Labmaster unit and only ran it 3 times as
        > > purchased before I made a Nixon/Stone tower to replace the origonal
        > > one.The
        > > Quality of the end product now is truly outstanding,I made my tower out
        of
        > > 50mm.316 S/S tube,1250mm.high and have had the condenser coil Tin plated
        > > to
        > > stop any tarnishing from the vapour.From a 25 lt.wash I get9 lts of
        > > spirit,4to5lts @ 95%+,I stop collecting at 85o and the average for the
        > > whole
        > > run is93%.Happy hunting.
        > > Regards Ken
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Frank Hammond" <frankhammond2000@...>
        > > To: <new_distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2001 15:00
        > > Subject: [new_distillers] stone/nixon v. stillmaker
        > >
        > >
        > > > I am trying to decide between these 2 column designs,
        > > > and would love to get some advice? I am leaning toward
        > > > the stone/nixon design, as it appears to be cheaper
        > > > and easier to construct.
        > > >
        > > > If I go with the Nixon/Stone, are there any suggested
        > > > modifications?
        > > >
        > > > If I were to go with the Stillmaker, would it be
        > > > better to modify the design so that I don't have
        > > > cooling pipes running through the top and bottom of
        > > > the still? Should I have both the cooling tubes
        > > > running through the top of the still, or the bottom.
        > > >
        > > > Sorry for not being more concise, I would invariable
        > > > have misused the terms and misstated my questions. I
        > > > think it is best to just leave it open ended and
        > > > vague. Please all thoughts are welcome. I just don't
        > > > have the technical knowledge to evaluate which still
        > > > design is better.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for you help.
        > > >
        > > > ____________________________________________________________
        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
        > > > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        > >
        > >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • martin@mhanover.freeserve.co.uk
        ... diagrams/photos, ... design. ... hard to ... and (b) ... full ... (although ... the ... the ... potential ... condenses vapour ... process. ... with your
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 5, 2001
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          --- In new_distillers@y..., "Rob van Leuven" <r.vanleuven@c...> wrote:
          >
          > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
          > Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@m...]
          > Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
          > Aan: new_distillers@y...
          > Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
          >
          >
          > Many thanks for your comments Giles.
          > I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any
          diagrams/photos,
          > and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker
          design.
          > Thanks again.
          > Martin....
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Giles <giles@p...>
          > To: new_distillers@y... <new_distillers@y...>
          > Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
          > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
          >
          >
          >
          > > Hi Giles.
          > > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run yet.
          > > But will be shortly.
          > > My question is..
          > > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
          > > Many thanks in advance.
          > > Martin.....
          > The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make it
          hard to
          > pack/clean the column.
          >
          > Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat
          and (b)
          > regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and
          full
          > reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux.
          (although
          > you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S design,
          the
          > default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can stabilise
          the
          > column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.
          >
          > I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling
          potential
          > and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just
          condenses vapour
          > straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux
          process.
          >
          > I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol
          with your
          > stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will be
          quite
          > good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.
          >
          > ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design without
          too much
          > difficulty.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi guys,
          > attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at the
          moment
          > I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet.
          Believe it, if
          > you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
          > Rob

          Hi Rob.
          Thanks for the effort but i can't seem to find the attached
          photograph!.
          Please can you send it again
          Many thanks
          Martin...
        • Rob van Leuven
          ... Van: scottvines@netscape.net [mailto:scottvines@netscape.net] Verzonden: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 6:52 Aan: Rob van Leuven Onderwerp: FW: [new_distillers]
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 13, 2001
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            -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
            Van: scottvines@... [mailto:scottvines@...]
            Verzonden: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 6:52
            Aan: Rob van Leuven
            Onderwerp: FW: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker


            Rob,

            I built a Nixon/Stone still that uses a Liebig condenser (3/4" jacket
            with 1/2" pass-through tubing). It screws onto the column and turns
            out at about a 45-degree angle from vertical. I use inexpensive PTFE
            thread tape to help seal the connection and to keep the angle of the
            take-off valve at full vertical. It does not leak.

            I like my still because it's open to the atmosphere, and I lightly
            plug it with clean cotton to keep the lightest of vapors from
            escaping. The benefits of this design are easy construction and
            cleaning, and inherent safety. However, like everything in life,
            there are some negatives. It is tall (almost eight feet), and it
            wants to tip over if you use a pot with a relatively small diameter.
            My pot is narrow, so I've had to stabilize my still with a wire
            contraption until I can build a more permanent structure (i.e. wood
            frame) or find a bigger pot. If you used a shorter condenser than
            mine (mine is overkill), balance probably wouldn't be an issue.

            Just thought you might like to know how I built my still. When you
            get your new still built, please don't forget to post a description
            at this site. I'm very interested in what you might be doing to
            improve your Nixon/Stone design.

            Regards,
            Scott



            Hi Scott,
            very interesting; could you post some pics??? I'd like to know the length of
            your condenser; my still has a 300 mm. long 28 mm. diam. coil condenser
            (coil made out of 5 mm. soft copper break pipe), the cooling water has a lot
            of trouble getting through, so I'm looking for a better alternative.
            The improvement in the n/s still is actually in their latest book; it's
            basically the "in-line" version. Nevertheless, there is always room for
            improvement.
            regards,
            Rob
          • bruce@afpfurlan.com
            ... yet. ... it ... design, ... stabilise ... be ... without ... the ... Hi! It s Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much about the Nixon stone
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 14, 2001
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              --- In new_distillers@y..., martin@m... wrote:
              > --- In new_distillers@y..., "Rob van Leuven" <r.vanleuven@c...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
              > > Van: Martin Hanover [mailto:martin@m...]
              > > Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2001 23:24
              > > Aan: new_distillers@y...
              > > Onderwerp: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
              > >
              > >
              > > Many thanks for your comments Giles.
              > > I have not yet seen a s/n designe yet. do you have any
              > diagrams/photos,
              > > and maybe you could tell me how you converted your stillmaker
              > design.
              > > Thanks again.
              > > Martin....
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Giles <giles@p...>
              > > To: new_distillers@y... <new_distillers@y...>
              > > Date: 01 February 2001 21:07
              > > Subject: Re: [new_distillers] Re: stone/nixon v. stillmaker
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > > Hi Giles.
              > > > I've just built a stillmaker still but hav'nt done a run
              yet.
              > > > But will be shortly.
              > > > My question is..
              > > > Why don't you reccomend this type of still?.
              > > > Many thanks in advance.
              > > > Martin.....
              > > The tubes that run through the column to the condenser make
              it
              > hard to
              > > pack/clean the column.
              > >
              > > Reflux ratio can only be controlled by (a) adjusting the heat
              > and (b)
              > > regulating the water rather than directly with a needle valve and
              > full
              > > reflux is hard to acheive in fact i never acheived full reflux.
              > (although
              > > you can get close if you have good heat control) On the N/S
              design,
              > the
              > > default is full reflux (needle valve closed) and you can
              stabilise
              > the
              > > column for as long as you like before drawing off distillate.
              > >
              > > I don't think the two pass through tubes have enough cooling
              > potential
              > > and the one at the foot of the column is erroneous. It just
              > condenses vapour
              > > straight back into the pot without contributing to the reflux
              > process.
              > >
              > > I wouldn't despair though: you will definitely make alcohol
              > with your
              > > stillmaker still and if you have good heat/water control it will
              be
              > quite
              > > good. Its just that the N/S design is a joy to use.
              > >
              > > ps I converted my stillmaker to the NIxon Stone design
              without
              > too much
              > > difficulty.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi guys,
              > > attached is a photograph of a n/s still I built last year; at
              the
              > moment
              > > I'm building an improved version which I can't show you yet.
              > Believe it, if
              > > you want clean spirit, n/s is the way to go!!!
              > > Rob
              >
              > Hi Rob.
              > Thanks for the effort but i can't seem to find the attached
              > photograph!.
              > Please can you send it again
              > Many thanks
              > Martin...


              Hi! It's Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much
              about the Nixon stone condenser. Can anyone tell me where to get
              drgs. or some info as to how to make one, I would appreciate it.

              Regards,

              Bruce
            • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
              Bruce, ... See some photos of it at http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm Tony
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 16, 2001
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                Bruce,

                > Hi! It's Bruce here. Iam a new distiller, and have heard so much
                > about the Nixon stone condenser. Can anyone tell me where to get
                > drgs. or some info as to how to make one, I would appreciate it.

                See some photos of it at
                http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm

                Tony
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